Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[dwighttsharpe]

...If anyone wants to see the formula I used today for my MM’s attempt they can let me know.  I can scan it in my printer and then post it as a picture.  

Norma

Yes Norma, I would appreciate it if you posted the formula for you latest bake here. Looks good.

Thanks.

[norma427]

Yes Norma, I would appreciate it if you posted the formula for you latest bake here. Looks good.

Thanks.

dwighttsharpe,

Thanks for saying the MM's attempted pie looked good!    This is the formula I used.  I just mixed the dough and then froze it, then let it defrost for one day, then left the dough ball sit at room temperature for 2 hrs, before I started to open the dough ball. 

Norma

[norma427]

When I returned from market today, I received the samples from Dominos Specialty Ingredients of the Homemaid Molasses, Evaporated Cane Juice, and Golden Granulated Evaporated Cane Juice Syrup, with the data sheets for those products.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I'm glad to see that your latest pizza appeared to be a good copy of the MM pizza you had in DC. With all my experiments since I had the MM pizza in Florida, my memory of that pizza has pretty much faded.

On the matter of the dough changing color, were you comparing the defrosted dough ball with the frozen dough ball?

Peter

[norma427]

Since I am scheduled to be out of town for a long weekend, I decided to use my latest frozen dough ball today to make a pizza. The dough I used is the one with the KABF and vital wheat gluten, 54% hydration, 0.60% IDY, 3% vegetable oil, 1.75% salt, 7% Grandma's Original molasses, and 4% light brown sugar. But no wheat germ. To speed up the process, rather than defrosting the dough ball in my refrigerator compartment for about 24 hours before using, this time I defrosted the dough ball for about 5 1/2 hours at room temperature. With today's temperature hitting a high of 86 degrees F (there were predictions that another record might be set), that turned out to be too fast a defrost. So, I put the dough back into the refrigerator for a few hours before using to make the pizza. At the point where the dough was put back into the refrigerator, it was softer than usual but still fairly stiff. When used to make the pizza, the dough ball opened up easily and handled beautifully and could be tossed and spun with impunity.

For today's bake, I decided to use two pizza stones. One was placed on the lowest oven rack position and the second one was placed on the second from the top oven rack position. The spacing between the two stones was around 7". Both stones were preheated at around 500 degrees F for one hour. The pizza was baked entirely on the bottom stone. The use of the two stones did extend the bake time to around 10 minutes. I believe that using the two stone method with a lower oven temperature should allow me to exceed a bake time of 10 minutes. That is the way that I will bake my next MM clone pizza.

The main purpose of the test was to see if I could get the degree of final crust sweetness we have all been striving for. As it turned out, the finished crust was sweet but still too sweet. My thought for the next experiment was to either use the same amount of Grandma's Original molasses or increase it by a percent or two and to reduce the amount of light brown sugar to around 2%. I then recalled that Norma's most recent MM clone dough uses 7% Grandma's Original molasses and 2% light brown sugar. I wouldn't be surprised to find that that is close to what we are looking for in terms of sweetness. So, I will be interested to see the results of Norma's latest MM clone pizza.

Peter

Peter,

Glad to hear your attempted MM’s pie went well today too!   

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

I'm glad to see that your latest pizza appeared to be a good copy of the MM pizza you had in DC. With all my experiments since I had the MM pizza in Florida, my memory of that pizza has pretty much faded.

On the matter of the dough changing color, were you comparing the defrosted dough ball with the frozen dough ball?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for saying your were glad my latest MM’s attempt appeared to be a good copy of the MM’s pizza I had in DC.  Sorry to hear your memory has pretty much faded about your MM’s pizza you had in Florida, since you have made other attempts at home.

On the matter of the dough ball changing color, the dough ball looked the same color as the dough ball I had made and frozen, until the dough ball heated at room temperature.  I checked the dough ball a couple of times today before I made the pizza.  The color of the dough ball then changed to a darker color before I went to make the pizza.  How can the dough change in the number of hours I was at market.  Do you have an explanation for that?  Steve saw the dough  change colors too.  Do you also think this hydration was about the right hydration?  I can now only wish I had those other pictures to post to show about the color changing.

Norma

[mailliw]

I did a search in this site for autolyse.  I didn't find any thing on this thread.  you folks who are making these wonderful crusts; have any of you tried this method? 

[norma427]

I did a search in this site for autolyse.  I didn't find any thing on this thread.  you folks who are making these wonderful crusts; have any of you tried this method? 

mailliw,

I haven't tried a autolyse, in any of my attempts.  I would think at MM's commissary they wouldn't use that method.  That method can be used to make pizza, but would think MM's would only use a straight dough method.

Norma

[dwighttsharpe]

dwighttsharpe,

Thanks for saying the MM's attempted pie looked good!    This is the formula I used.  I just mixed the dough and then froze it, then let it defrost for one day, then left the dough ball sit at room temperature for 2 hrs, before I started to open the dough ball. 

Norma

Thank you.

[Pete-zza]

Glad to hear your attempted MM’s pie went well today too!   

Norma,

I felt that we had narrowed the ranges of values of molasses and brown sugar to get "sweet but not too sweet" and that it was just a matter of time before we converged on a solution to the sweetness problem while getting the color of the dough right also. Since I like the flavor of molasses better than the flavor of raw can sugar or brown sugar, the next time I may use more molasses and less brown sugar. Since I have been using King Arthur bread flour and the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten, I may also lower the oil back to 2% and maybe add a small amount of wheat germ (maybe 1-2%) in order to get a somewhat more dense rim. You may not need to do this with the KASL.

I also thought that defrosting the frozen MM clone dough ball at room temperature was a good idea. When time came to make the pizza and I opened up the dough ball, I found that after getting the skin to around 8" inches (my clones have been 10"), it was possible to slap the skin from hand to hand as was shown in some of the videos. I also had no problem tossing and spinning the skin. I think if one defrosts the dough in the refrigerator for a day, using a longer temper time may yield the same dough condition that makes it easier to handle the skin.

I also think that it is possible to lower the hydration even further. I used 54% for my last dough but I think that 53% should work also, especially in my case where I am using the KABF and VWG.

Peter

[Ev]

Well, I finally got to taste my first real slice of Mellow Mushroom pizza. It seemed to be all dry and shriveled  from being in the fridge too long! 
 Just kidding. It was actually very well preserved. Thank you, Norma for saving it for. I appreciate your kindness and generosity.
I thought it very good and maybe just a tiny bit less sweet than most of Normas' attempts. To be totally honest, taste-wise, in a literal "blind" test, I doubt I could tell which was which. Even the sauce, I think, is similar. Visually, Normas' has a larger puffier rim. I think the color is almost perfect as well.
 Great job, Norma. I think you just about nailed it!

[norma427]

Norma,

I felt that we had narrowed the ranges of values of molasses and brown sugar to get "sweet but not too sweet" and that it was just a matter of time before we converged on a solution to the sweetness problem while getting the color of the dough right also. Since I like the flavor of molasses better than the flavor of raw can sugar or brown sugar, the next time I may use more molasses and less brown sugar. Since I have been using King Arthur bread flour and the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten, I may also lower the oil back to 2% and maybe add a small amount of wheat germ (maybe 1-2%) in order to get a somewhat more dense rim. You may not need to do this with the KASL.

I also thought that defrosting the frozen MM clone dough ball at room temperature was a good idea. When time came to make the pizza and I opened up the dough ball, I found that after getting the skin to around 8" inches (my clones have been 10"), it was possible to slap the skin from hand to hand as was shown in some of the videos. I also had no problem tossing and spinning the skin. I think if one defrosts the dough in the refrigerator for a day, using a longer temper time may yield the same dough condition that makes it easier to handle the skin.

I also think that it is possible to lower the hydration even further. I used 54% for my last dough but I think that 53% should work also, especially in my case where I am using the KABF and VWG.

Peter

Peter,

I also think we narrowed the ranges of molasses and brown sugar to get about the right sweetness in our attempts.  I could only taste the molasses in my attempt.  I couldn’t taste any brown sugar.  The crust wasn’t really sweet.  It almost tasted like a MM’s pie. 

My dough ball handled like a MM’s dough, like I saw at MM’s recently, in almost every way, just like yours. The only thing I have a question about is now how do I get the less airy looking rim?  I like the really airy looking rim, but that isn’t what MM’s rim is really like.

Thanks for your post on your attempt!  I think eventually with you using your home oven and KABF with vital wheat gluten, and me using my deck oven, with KASL, we should be able to produce a pie like MM’s for anyone that wants to take a stab at trying a MM’s pizza.

Norma

[norma427]

Well, I finally got to taste my first real slice of Mellow Mushroom pizza. It seemed to be all dry and shriveled  from being in the fridge too long!  
 Just kidding. It was actually very well preserved. Thank you, Norma for saving it for. I appreciate your kindness and generosity.
I thought it very good and maybe just a tiny bit less sweet than most of Normas' attempts. To be totally honest, taste-wise, in a literal "blind" test, I doubt I could tell which was which. Even the sauce, I think, is similar. Visually, Normas' has a larger puffier rim. I think the color is almost perfect as well.
 Great job, Norma. I think you just about nailed it!

Steve,

Lol, you sure are funny!

I did want to save you a slice so you also could know how a real MM's pie tasted.  Peter method of my freezing the slice did work well.  I also agree in a blind taste test, I probably couldn't tell the difference between the pizza I ate at MM's and the attempt I did yesterday.

Norma

[briterian]

Hi Norma,
I noticed you dip your dough in cornmeal while it is fermenting.  That's a new technique that I think sounds pretty neat.  Is there a certain type of cornmeal I should use or can I stick with my quaker?

http://www.quakeroats.com/products/more-products-from-quaker/content/specialty-items/cornmeal/yellow-corn-meal.aspx

I also am curious if one is not going to freeze the dough - what is the fridge fermentation you would recommend?  1 day - 2 day - x days?

[Pete-zza]

On the matter of the dough ball changing color, the dough ball looked the same color as the dough ball I had made and frozen, until the dough ball heated at room temperature.  I checked the dough ball a couple of times today before I made the pizza.  The color of the dough ball then changed to a darker color before I went to make the pizza.  How can the dough change in the number of hours I was at market.  Do you have an explanation for that?  Steve saw the dough  change colors too.  Do you also think this hydration was about the right hydration?  I can now only wish I had those other pictures to post to show about the color changing.

Norma,

I don't know if I have a complete explanation for the change of color that you observed with your last MM clone dough ball, but as I noted at Reply 460 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg157718.html#msg157718, freezing something can change its color. In Reply 460, my observation of that effect was in respect of a frozen pizza slice but recently I observed the same phenomenon with respect to two dough balls that I made that were essentially identical except that one of the dough balls was a bit smaller than the other. The color to the two dough balls was identical. However, when time came to make the pizza with one of the two dough balls (the larger one), I noticed after defrosting it that it was darker in color than the other dough ball that was still frozen. The frozen dough ball was lighter, or "whiter", than the defrosted dough ball. I believe that it has to do with how the moisture in the dough freezes and forms ice particles that reflect light at the surface and give it a lighter appearance. Allowed to completely defrost, it would look the same as the other dough ball that was similarly defrosted. If you had a frozen dough ball that you purchased from an MM store and you wanted to test one of your dough balls for color comparison purposes, you would have to first defrost the frozen dough ball before comparing the colors of the two dough balls. You could then refreeze the purchased MM dough ball but you would have to defrost it again to do future color comparisons.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Norma and Steve,

In one of my earliest MM clone experiments, I compared a slice of one of my MM clone pizzas against a part of the slice of the Florida MM pizza that I had saved. I, too, thought that the two slices were virtually indistinguishable. In my case, I even compared bites of the two slices, side by side with my eyes closed. I wasn't sure what to make of this other than to believe that maybe the MM clone formulation I came up with was in the ballpark. When I went back this morning and compared that dough formulation with what Norma and I have been using, surprisingly it has changed very little (at that time I was using only molasses and no added sugar). But the technical side of me says that the only true test is to do side by side comparisons of two freshly baked pizzas. Since that is not something that one can do in an MM store, the closest method for comparison tasting purposes might be to purchase an MM pizza, bring it home, and eat it side by side with a home version. Of course, this test works better if one is near an MM store so that the MM pizza doesn't change much by the time it gets home.

Peter