Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Can you tell me how much of the MM dough (Bob) you have left, by weight? I have been thinking of another test that might be conducted.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Can you tell me how much of the MM dough (Bob) you have left, by weight? I have been thinking of another test that might be conducted.

Peter

Peter,

What is left of the MM dough (Bob) weighs 146 grams.  I am curious about what kind of test that might be conducted on part of the MM dough.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

What is left of the MM dough (Bob) weighs 146 grams.  I am curious about what kind of test that might be conducted on part of the MM dough.

Norma,

The test I was thinking about is one that might help us determine how much oil--presumably soybean/vegetable oil--is used in the MM dough. So I thought that if you did a gluten mass test with a piece of the MM dough (Bob) but using a fixed amount of water in say, a bowl, then you would end up with the gluten mass and a liquid pretty much containing the rest of the ingredients, including the oil. Since the oil is lighter than water, it would rise to the top. So, if you then froze the liquid, the water part would freeze solid but the oil would sit on top of the frozen mass and be capable of being removed and weighed. The oil wouldn't be solid like an animal fat, but rather soft and somewhat gelatinous. My thinking was using about two cups of water, preferably warm, for the rinsing process so as to extract the greatest amount of oil/fats. After the wash process, if desired, the liquid could then be placed in another container to then be frozen, such as a tall, small-diameter container like a tall water glass, so that the oil is spread over a small surface area and perhaps be easier to remove than if it were spread over a much larger surface area. The oil would represent the fat in the flour as well as the added oil.

In your case, I don't think you have enough of Bob to spare. I think you would need a fairly large sample, say 3-5 ounces, to get a measurable amount of oil. The amount of oil would be quite small, maybe 1/4-1/2 teaspoon, depending on the sample size. That amount of oil could be extrapolated to an amount for an entire MM dough ball to get the percent of oil in relation to the total weight of a given size MM dough ball (e.g., for a 10" pizza or a 14" pizza). That would allow us to play around with the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with a baker's percent for the oil.

After I posted, it occurred to me that the same test could be done with an MM clone dough sample. Since we know how much oil we have been using, and can calculate the amount of fat in the amount of flour used, the results of a gluten mass wash test might tell us if the method is a viable one. In fact, it might be wiser to do a gluten mass/oil test on one of our MM clone doughs so that we don't waste Bob if the numbers don't pan out.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I still have the other clone MM dough ball frozen that I had leftover at the same time as the MM (Bob) dough ball I did the gluten tests on at Reply 1066 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168234.html#msg168234  Do you want me to do the oil test on that frozen clone dough ball?  It weighs the same as Bob.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I still have the other clone MM dough ball frozen that I had leftover at the same time as the MM (Bob) dough ball I did the gluten tests on at Reply 1066 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168234.html#msg168234  Do you want me to do the oil test on that frozen clone dough ball?  It weighs the same as Bob.

Norma,

Do we have the exact dough formulation for that clone MM dough ball? If so, then an oil test would be helpful if you don't mind doing it. There is no urgency.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Do we have the exact dough formulation for that clone MM dough ball? If so, then an oil test would be helpful if you don't mind doing it. There is no urgency.

Peter

Peter,

I replied to your question at Reply 1020 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg167967.html#msg167967  that the MM leftover clone dough was from the MM clone dough formulation with the Golden Barrel Baking Molasses, so it would be the MM#7 formulation. 

I just worry about if a water glass might break in the freezer, but guess it wouldn’t.   

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Thank you. That would be the MM clone dough formulation at Reply 834 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg161938/topicseen.html#msg161938. To have it closer at hand, I have reproduced it below.

MM#7-Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses MM Clone Dough Formulation With Pendleton Power Flour

KASL Flour (100%): Water (Spring Water) (51%): IDY (0.60%): Salt (Table Salt) (1.50%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.46%): Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses (11.5%): Total (167.06%):

314.69 g  |  11.1 oz | 0.69 lbs 160.49 g  |  5.66 oz | 0.35 lbs 1.89 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.63 tsp | 0.21 tbsp 4.72 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp 7.74 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.7 tsp | 0.57 tbsp 36.19 g | 1.28 oz | 0.08 lbs | 5.43 tsp | 1.81 tbsp 525.72 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.1204643

Note: Dough is for a single 14” pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.118684; “adjusted” hydration = 53.3%; “effective” hydration = 55.8%; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Peter

Edit (3/11/12): Corrected flour used.

[norma427]

Peter,

I used KASL flour in the formulation that you posted.  I also removed the part of the frozen leftover MM#7 clone dough ball from my freezer and I was wrong in how much it weighs.  I weighed it now and it weighs 133 grams or 4.7 ounces on my regular kitchen scales.  I guess the leftover MM#7 clone dough ball will be okay to do the oil test on.  I will do it tonight unless you have any other ideas.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I used KASL flour in the formulation that you posted.  I also removed the part of the frozen leftover MM#7 clone dough ball from my freezer and I was wrong in how much it weighs.  I weighed it now and it weighs 133 grams or 4.7 ounces on my regular kitchen scales.  I guess the leftover MM#7 clone dough ball will be okay to do the oil test on.  I will do it tonight unless you have any other ideas.

Norma,

I corrected my last post. I think you will be OK with the leftover MM#7 clone dough ball. Running the test tonight would be fine. I'm anxious to see if that test works.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Just to let you know how the oil test is going so far, in case you want to look at the oil I had used in the MM#7 formulation, or wanted to see what the wet mass test showed from this time (when washing in warm water).  I can’t do the calculations, but maybe you can. 

I used a large glass Pyrex mixing bowl to place the warm water in.  I weighed the 2 cups of warm water because I wasn’t sure if it mattered or not, but the mixing bowl before the two cups of water were added weighed 2.40 or 2 lb. 4 ounces.  When the warm two cups (in volume) were added the mixing bowl then weighed 3.05 or 3 lb. .05 ounces.  I also washed the plastic bag the MM#7 clone part dough ball was in in the glass mixing bowl, in case any oil was in the plastic bag, since I had to defrost the dough ball and the bag looked like it has some kind of substance on the inside of the plastic bag.  Using warm water in the mixing bowl to wash the dough ball seemed much easier than using cold water.  I still continued to wash, squeeze, and knead for 15 minutes though.  As can be seen on the first picture as soon as I placed the dough ball into the warm water I guess starches started coming out of the dough ball.  I also decided just for the heck of it to do a wet gluten mass test on the dough ball after it was washed for 15 minutes.  The weight of the wet gluten mass test on this MM#7 clone dough ball weighed 48.22 grams on my small scales.  I will be interested to see if that falls anywhere in line with my other KASL wet gluten mass test. 

I then poured all the liquid in the Pyrex mixing bowl into a tall glass and used a rubber spatula to get out as much as I could in the Pyrex mixing bowl and into the glass drinking glass.  There was a tiny amount of white substance left in the glass mixing bowl.  It can been seen the drinking glass how much it filled was filled.  It is now in my freezer that doesn’t defrost.  I don’t know how long it will take to freeze so I can then take off any oil that might come to the surface.  Do you have any suggestions what would be the best tool or spoon to use to try to remove the oil from the top of the drinking glass after it is frozen?  I sure don’t know if I have proceeded the correct way or not.  This is new territory for me.  I also took a picture of the kind of oil I have been using for a long while in mixing the MM#7 clone doughs so you can see what the Nutrition Facts are on the oil I have been using.  I apologize for the messy label, but at one time I left oil spill over the side of the oil container. 

If you think I did anything wrong so far let me know.

First picture is of the MM#7 part dough ball on my larger kitchen scale.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

How the starch and other substances must of settled to the bottom of the glass, while in the freezer.  Wonder what all that brown stuff is at the top of the glass.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

It looks like you did everything right. The brown stuff must be the molasses. Molasses has a higher specific gravity than water but when dissolved in water it may stay that way and not sink to the bottom, at least in any reasonable time frame. However, vegetable oil is lighter than both water and molasses and should rise to the top. I tested this notion tonight by dissolving some molasses in water and then adding some vegetable oil. The oil settled on the top of the mixture.

If you find that there is congealed oil on top of the mixture after freezing, I would use any simple implement to remove it. Maybe the tip of a butter knife or a small tipped spatula.

Tomorrow I will take a closer look at the gluten mass and compare its weight, after adjustment, with the other KASL gluten mass numbers.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

It looks like you did everything right. The brown stuff must be the molasses. Molasses has a higher specific gravity than water but when dissolved in water it may stay that way and not sink to the bottom, at least in any reasonable time frame. However, vegetable oil is lighter than both water and molasses and should rise to the top. I tested this notion tonight by dissolving some molasses in water and then adding some vegetable oil. The oil settled on the top of the mixture.

If you find that there is congealed oil on top of the mixture after freezing, I would use any simple implement to remove it. Maybe the tip of a butter knife or a small tipped spatula.

Tomorrow I will take a closer look at the gluten mass and compare its weight, after adjustment, with the other KASL gluten mass numbers.

Peter

Peter,

Good to hear you think I did everything right.  Interesting that the brown stuff must be the molasses.  I didn’t know molasses has a higher specific gravity than water.  I knew oil probably would have settled on the top.  I probably will check the oil test a little later tonight, but might wait until tomorrow to try and conduct the oil test by scrapping off the oil the best I can.  I want to make sure it is frozen enough.  Thanks for our suggestions of what to use to remove the oil.

I think the wet gluten mass test will fall short in value numbers, because the other dough balls were 9 ounces with the water and flour, before the washing for the wet gluten tests.  This frozen dough ball was 4.7 ounces so just by adding the frozen dough ball to make 9 ounces it already fell short.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I think the wet gluten mass test will fall short in value numbers, because the other dough balls were 9 ounces with the water and flour, before the washing for the wet gluten tests.  This frozen dough ball was 4.7 ounces so just by adding the frozen dough ball to make 9 ounces it already fell short.

Norma,

Since we know the ingredients and their quantities for the MM clone dough you used for the test, I will determine how much flour was in your 4.7 ounce dough ball and extrapolate the amount of the gluten mass for that amount of flour to six ounces of flour, and compare that gluten mass value with your previous KASL gluten mass values. It will be interesting to see if your results in situ differ from those achieved using running water.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Since we know the ingredients and their quantities for the MM clone dough you used for the test, I will determine how much flour was in your 4.7 ounce dough ball and extrapolate the amount of the gluten mass for that amount of flour to six ounces of flour, and compare that gluten mass value with your previous KASL gluten mass values. It will be interesting to see if your results in situ differ from those achieved using running water.

Peter

Peter,

I didn’t think about how much flour was in the 4.7 ounce dough ball.  I also forgot about the other added ingredients.

I will be also interested to see how the numbers differ when using just water in a bowl and running water.  I sure don’t know if using warm water makes any differences or not either, but it was much easier to get the dough ball to a wet gluten mass with using warm water and my hands weren’t cold at all.

Norma

[norma427]

Peter,

I am not sure how this experiment is going to do the oil test. I really don’t think it is going well.  Last evening I thought about how the starch and molasses separated in the freezer and thought maybe I should have left the starch, molasses, and other ingredients at room temperature before I the started to freeze the mixture (maybe to let everything settle first).  In hindsight I am not sure if I should have done that or not.  I checked the oil test last evening before I went to bed and the oil test was almost frozen, but it sure didn’t look like there were much of any gelatinous mixture on the top.  This morning I check it again in the sunlight and it seems like there are now four layers, with the starch being on the bottom, something next to it (might be oiled trap in), I guess then molasses and any water that was there, and then only a tiny amount of some gelatinous mixture on the top.  I touched it and it is sticky so I am not sure if it is all oil (might be some molasses mixed in), but it is a small amount.  Now I wonder if I should just let the whole mixture defrost and see what that layer is on top of the starch before I would then freeze it again.  What would you recommend? 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

First to briefly update you on both of my simple experiments, the one in which I simply added some oil to water and the other in which I added some molasses and oil to water. In both cases, the oil rose to the top of the mixture and stayed there as a film. This morning, after freezing overnight, the oil had congealed in both containers. I had not measured the amounts of oil but presumably the oils would weigh the same, or nearly the same, upon removal.

I also dissected your 4.7-ounce (133-gram) MM clone dough on paper. It includes 79.6 grams of flour, 40.6 grams of water, 0.48 grams of IDY (about 1/6 teaspoon), 1.19 grams of salt, 1.96 grams of oil (0.43 teaspoon, or a bit shy of 1/2 teaspoon), and 9.16 grams of molasses. As noted, the oil comes to almost one-half teaspoon. Maybe the other layer you saw is the yeast. Or it might be ash or barley malt or minerals or particles of bran in some form, possibly in combination.

At this point, I think I would just try to remove the oil or whatever it is at the top of your container and weigh it if that is possible. You might then let that material defrost to see if it has the original color of the oil you used. Depending on what you find, we can assess whether this type of experiment is worth pursuing further.

Peter