Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes? (Read 94893 times)

norma427 · « **Reply #1660 on:** April 23, 2012, 11:17:04 PM »

I came across this article about a new Mellow Mushroom opening in Ohio. Kevin Molony also operates a Mellow Mushroom in Wilder, Ky, and said in the article that the “dough is magical”. He also said it more wheat-based than flour and it used molasses instead of sugar. I wonder if Mellow Mushroom doesn’t even tell its franchise owners of different MM locations what is in the dough, or if the owners just play along.

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/mellow-mushroom-pizza-to-open-first-southwest-ohio-location-1364551.html

http://www.kypost.com/dpp/money/business_news/mellow-mushroom-expands-to-second-location1334758268845

Norma

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1661 on:** April 24, 2012, 01:42:40 AM »

I have spent a good bit of time looking around and haven't found the exact fermentation times and techniques that most people are using and also the mixing/kneading technique. I went through about 25 pages to no avail. Maybe that is because I am just not looking hard enough. I bought some molasses and I'm gonna use the Grandma's Molasses formulation at response 1611 and make a 12" pie. I finally figured out the dough tool though and did the conversion all by myself! Haha, I am proud. Thanks so much guys, I am absolutely loving trying out all these different regional styles of pies, this will be pie style #4! So much fun and tasty to boot.

norma427 · « **Reply #1662 on:** April 24, 2012, 06:58:40 AM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 24, 2012, 01:42:40 AM

I have spent a good bit of time looking around and haven't found the exact fermentation times and techniques that most people are using and also the mixing/kneading technique. I went through about 25 pages to no avail. Maybe that is because I am just not looking hard enough. I bought some molasses and I'm gonna use the Grandma's Molasses formulation at response 1611 and make a 12" pie. I finally figured out the dough tool though and did the conversion all by myself! Haha, I am proud. Thanks so much guys, I am absolutely loving trying out all these different regional styles of pies, this will be pie style #4! So much fun and tasty to boot.

Cory,

Peter and I have been freezing the MM clone dough balls after the mix to try something like MM does and then let them defrost in the fridge for a day or so. Other members have cold fermented their doughs. In my opinion if you wanted to cold ferment a clone MM dough, it all depends on how much yeast is used as to how long it can be cold fermented. My mixing technique has been to add the oil and molasses to the water and then add all of the other ingredients to the flour and then mix until the ingredients looked mixed enough. I use a Kitchen Aid mixer. Maybe other members might chime in what they do.

If you are interested, I used the MM#7 clone dough formulation Peter set-forth at Reply 834 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg161938/topicseen.html#msg161938 If you want to see some of my clone MM pizzas using that formulation, Peter listed them at Reply 1479 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg174699.html#msg174699

The formulations Peter set-forth at Reply 1611 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg178617.html#msg178617 were just for Overstrike to play around with to see if he could get the sweetness in the crust with using different molasses products and really aren’t clone MM doughs in my opinion.

Good luck if you try a MM clone with Grandma‘s molasses!

Let me know if you need more help. Do you have access to high-gluten flour?

Norma

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1663 on:** April 24, 2012, 10:03:52 AM »

Well I used 1 tsp of yeast for a double batch to make two balls worth of dough and used the tool to calculate it all. Hopefully that is the right amount for my application, I just used the basic dough tool to get to that number using the percents from reply 1611. My technique was just the same as yours, and I also use a kitchen aid mixer and kneaded it for probably 7 minutes with the dough hook till it was really smooth and elastic and did a really good windowpane test for me. No tearing at all.

I guess I will get to see how sweet it turns out then in my experiment then if I can get it to turn out okay! I planned on using one dough ball tonight and one tomorrow, and also trying Fazzari's balling technique. Cold fermenting in bulk, balling, then back in the fridge for three hours then bringing out to proof at room temp for 2 hours then opening the dough and baking. It seems this works well for him and his dough. If this doesn't seem right for this type of dough let me know, I wanna get this pie to be tasty.

By the way, you are an amazing pizza artisan Norma. You seem to be able to bake any and all types of pizza to perfection. I strive to be able to do that one day in the future! I love all pizza types and the possibility of being able to make one on a whim would be amazing. I'm sure my family would absolutely love it too! Ha.

I don't have access to King Arthur Sir Lancelot, but I did pick up some Vital Wheat Gluten at my Whole Foods and tried to do the math to get the KABF up to the right protein content. I hope I calculated it right with the numbers I found online. I think it was something like 450g of KABF for the two ball dough recipe so I added 1.33 tbsp of the VWG and subtracted that same amount of flour from the batch so it didn't affect the hydration. It put me at a protein content of 14.5% I think if I did the numbers right.

Thanks so much for the reply Norma. One last thing, I am going to be using my stone in my home oven to bake it. I was thinking the very bottom rack or close to it since the pie looks to be of medium thickness. Does that sounds about right or close to how your baking setup was for this dough? And I have no idea what a good temp would be since this dough has so much sugar in it from the molasses, I haven't baked anything like this pie before. Any tips on temperature would be awesome if you have tried this in a home oven. Thanks again! -Cory

P.S. - I found the picture I took to use when I was mixing up my dough last night! This was for a 12" pie. I rerun the tool with the other percents and it was only 6 grams less molasses, so maybe it won't make that big of a change in a batch this size.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1664 on:** April 24, 2012, 12:27:09 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 24, 2012, 10:03:52 AM

I planned on using one dough ball tonight and one tomorrow, and also trying Fazzari's balling technique. Cold fermenting in bulk, balling, then back in the fridge for three hours then bringing out to proof at room temp for 2 hours then opening the dough and baking. It seems this works well for him and his dough. If this doesn't seem right for this type of dough let me know, I wanna get this pie to be tasty.

Cory,

I'm not sure how well the fazzari method will work with the MM clone dough you are planning to use. The "adjusted" hydration of the dough is only 53.5% and, adding in the 1.5% oil only raises that hydration value to an "effective" hydration value of about 55%. From what I have read, it seems that John's method works best for doughs with higher hydration.

Peter

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1665 on:** April 24, 2012, 04:51:04 PM »

Cory,

I believe fazzari's latest balling technique is to re ball and then let sit out on counter for 3 hrs. No more refrigeration.

Bob

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1666 on:** April 24, 2012, 09:03:05 PM »

Okay, I will do some research on lower hydration doughs and how to ball them with the right timing. Do you recommend a straight from fridge, ball and proof? The dough has been in the fridge bulk fermenting for 18 hours now.

norma427 · « **Reply #1667 on:** April 24, 2012, 09:23:24 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 24, 2012, 10:03:52 AM

Well I used 1 tsp of yeast for a double batch to make two balls worth of dough and used the tool to calculate it all. Hopefully that is the right amount for my application, I just used the basic dough tool to get to that number using the percents from reply 1611. My technique was just the same as yours, and I also use a kitchen aid mixer and kneaded it for probably 7 minutes with the dough hook till it was really smooth and elastic and did a really good windowpane test for me. No tearing at all.

I guess I will get to see how sweet it turns out then in my experiment then if I can get it to turn out okay! I planned on using one dough ball tonight and one tomorrow, and also trying Fazzari's balling technique. Cold fermenting in bulk, balling, then back in the fridge for three hours then bringing out to proof at room temp for 2 hours then opening the dough and baking. It seems this works well for him and his dough. If this doesn't seem right for this type of dough let me know, I wanna get this pie to be tasty.

By the way, you are an amazing pizza artisan Norma. You seem to be able to bake any and all types of pizza to perfection. I strive to be able to do that one day in the future! I love all pizza types and the possibility of being able to make one on a whim would be amazing. I'm sure my family would absolutely love it too! Ha.

I don't have access to King Arthur Sir Lancelot, but I did pick up some Vital Wheat Gluten at my Whole Foods and tried to do the math to get the KABF up to the right protein content. I hope I calculated it right with the numbers I found online. I think it was something like 450g of KABF for the two ball dough recipe so I added 1.33 tbsp of the VWG and subtracted that same amount of flour from the batch so it didn't affect the hydration. It put me at a protein content of 14.5% I think if I did the numbers right.

Thanks so much for the reply Norma. One last thing, I am going to be using my stone in my home oven to bake it. I was thinking the very bottom rack or close to it since the pie looks to be of medium thickness. Does that sounds about right or close to how your baking setup was for this dough? And I have no idea what a good temp would be since this dough has so much sugar in it from the molasses, I haven't baked anything like this pie before. Any tips on temperature would be awesome if you have tried this in a home oven. Thanks again! -Cory

P.S. - I found the picture I took to use when I was mixing up my dough last night! This was for a 12" pie. I rerun the tool with the other percents and it was only 6 grams less molasses, so maybe it won't make that big of a change in a batch this size.

Cory,

I would think if you used the formulation you posted in Reply 1163 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg184083.html#msg184083 you could have balled the dough right after the mix, but I am not sure about reballing either with such a low hydration dough. I agree with Peter that a reball might mess up a MM dough. Your mixing method was good. Since you used a lower percent of oil than I did in the MM#7 clone dough I am not sure of how your pizza will turn out. You also used a higher percent of molasses so your pizza probably will turn out with a sweetness in the crust. Let us know how your experiment turns out. I baked most of my MM clone pizzas in my deck oven so I don’t know how that will compare with your bake.

Using the bottom rack for you pizza stone sounds about right for a first attempt. If you see it isn’t browning enough, or if you think the bottom crust is browning too much you might move the pie to a higher rack position.

As far as me being a pizza artisan, I play around with different doughs all the time, but am not always successful. I have been reading your posts and you sure have come a long way in a short while.

Norma

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1668 on:** April 24, 2012, 09:30:21 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 24, 2012, 09:03:05 PM

Okay, I will do some research on lower hydration doughs and how to ball them with the right timing. Do you recommend a straight from fridge, ball and proof? The dough has been in the fridge bulk fermenting for 18 hours now.

Cory,

I would say that over 95% of professionals who use cold fermentation do the dough division up front, not after a long bulk fermentation. And in the majority of those cases, the hydration of the dough is greater than 55%, and usually considerably more. Mellow Mushroom makes all of its dough balls in a central commissary and delivers them to their stores in frozen or refrigerated form (the refrigerated dough balls go to the stores in the Atlanta area where the commissary is located). The frozen dough balls are defrosted for a day or two before using. Everything about the dough, from its formulation to the use by the stores, is devised to fit their business model. Using bulk fermentation with later division would require an entirely different dough management and business model. Of course, in a home setting, anything is possible. In your case, you might want to proceed with division after the bulk rise and see what you get.

Peter

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1669 on:** April 24, 2012, 10:00:39 PM »

Thank you so much for the replies, I think my plan of attack will be to ball and then proof for a couple hours before opening and baking them. This sounds like the best plan of attack. I will definitely freeze my dough balls next time I try to make a MM clone pie and not do a bulk ferment. I have enough for two pies, so I guess I will leave the one unballed after I cut the dough in half and try the ball, refrigerate for a few hours, and two hour proof tomorrow. I am interested in how this will turn out compared to the ball and proof technique with this low hydration dough.

Thank you for the kind words Norma, I have a lot to learn but this whole experience is truly great. I seriously think that this has become my new life obsession and pastime. It is just such fun experimenting with doughs and toppings. -Cory

norma427 · « **Reply #1670 on:** April 24, 2012, 10:26:44 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 24, 2012, 10:00:39 PM

Thank you so much for the replies, I think my plan of attack will be to ball and then proof for a couple hours before opening and baking them. This sounds like the best plan of attack. I will definitely freeze my dough balls next time I try to make a MM clone pie and not do a bulk ferment. I have enough for two pies, so I guess I will leave the one unballed after I cut the dough in half and try the ball, refrigerate for a few hours, and two hour proof tomorrow. I am interested in how this will turn out compared to the ball and proof technique with this low hydration dough.

Thank you for the kind words Norma, I have a lot to learn but this whole experience is truly great. I seriously think that this has become my new life obsession and pastime. It is just such fun experimenting with doughs and toppings. -Cory

Cory,

I don’t think you really need to freeze the MM doughs if you try another attempt.. If you want to see Steve’s (Ev) Reply at 1455 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg174176.html#msg174176 he didn’t freeze his MM clone dough balls. Peter and I have just been doing that to try and make the MM dough balls as close to a MM clone as we can.

I hope your plan of attack will work out with balling and then proofing for a couple of hours.

You better watch out if you seriously think that pizza making has become a new life obsession and pastime. You will spend countless hours in front of a computer screen and keep making more dough balls all the time to see how your experiments work out. The mystery of pizzas will become so time consuming you will wish you never got into all of this.

Good luck!

Norma

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1671 on:** April 25, 2012, 09:35:23 AM »

Well here is the first pie from the batch of dough! The dough ended up staying out proofing for 4 hours because I was running behind when I got home from the store and Whole Foods, but it was easy to stretch and I didn't have to de-gas it too much. It browned up just like Steve's did on the bottom, but I think I still overcooked it a bit. It was still crispy and delicious though. I have to say of all the pizzas I've made thus far, and that includes the two Chicago Deep Dish's, a Chicago Thin Crust, and Nearly-Politan's that turned out to be a New York kind of pie this is BY FAR my favorite. The crust was slightly sweet but nothing that was overly noticeable, and it gave the crust a dark color on the inside almost like whole wheat looking crumbs I've seen on here.

As far as right now goes, this is my new go to pie dough recipe. It is everything in a pie I have been looking for, all I need to do now is keep playing with fermentation times and handling methods and I think I can get it just right. That means religiously following this thread and maybe posting from time to time my results! That isn't saying that I am not going to keep trying other variations of pies, but as far as what I've made prior this one was miles ahead and that is probably because I did a better job crafting this one.

I did forget the butter and parmesan on the crust though.

Would you recommend a high quality parmesan, or does MM use a pretty generic pre-grated version? It kind of looks to me to be the cheaper kind, which is fine with me if it is, I kind of enjoy that kind of parmesan from time to time. Another thing that I found from this pie is that I am MUCH more of a cooked pizza sauce guy. Does MM use a cooked sauce? Mine had garlic, butter, EVOO, oregano, red pepper flakes, and a bit of dried basil. I am sorry to ask so many questions, I just haven't eaten at a Mellow Mushroom in SO long. Thanks guys, I hope that the pie looks okay to y'all! -Cory

P.S. - Sorry for the language, but this whole picture rotating thing is really pissing me off. I gotta figure this out.

CDNpielover · « **Reply #1672 on:** April 25, 2012, 11:01:58 AM »

looking good!

tonymark · « **Reply #1673 on:** April 25, 2012, 11:05:01 AM »

RC, What temp and time are you baking your MM pizza? I have been doing 475 F around 9-10 mins. Your pie looks good. I know that MM pizza tastes buttery, but do they spread butter on the crust? I am sure that piece of info is buried somewhere in this thread.

They have cheap shaker parmesan on the tables at my local MM.

norma427 · « **Reply #1674 on:** April 25, 2012, 01:18:59 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 25, 2012, 09:35:23 AM

Well here is the first pie from the batch of dough! The dough ended up staying out proofing for 4 hours because I was running behind when I got home from the store and Whole Foods, but it was easy to stretch and I didn't have to de-gas it too much. It browned up just like Steve's did on the bottom, but I think I still overcooked it a bit. It was still crispy and delicious though. I have to say of all the pizzas I've made thus far, and that includes the two Chicago Deep Dish's, a Chicago Thin Crust, and Nearly-Politan's that turned out to be a New York kind of pie this is BY FAR my favorite. The crust was slightly sweet but nothing that was overly noticeable, and it gave the crust a dark color on the inside almost like whole wheat looking crumbs I've seen on here.

As far as right now goes, this is my new go to pie dough recipe. It is everything in a pie I have been looking for, all I need to do now is keep playing with fermentation times and handling methods and I think I can get it just right. That means religiously following this thread and maybe posting from time to time my results! That isn't saying that I am not going to keep trying other variations of pies, but as far as what I've made prior this one was miles ahead and that is probably because I did a better job crafting this one.

I did forget the butter and parmesan on the crust though. Would you recommend a high quality parmesan, or does MM use a pretty generic pre-grated version? It kind of looks to me to be the cheaper kind, which is fine with me if it is, I kind of enjoy that kind of parmesan from time to time. Another thing that I found from this pie is that I am MUCH more of a cooked pizza sauce guy. Does MM use a cooked sauce? Mine had garlic, butter, EVOO, oregano, red pepper flakes, and a bit of dried basil. I am sorry to ask so many questions, I just haven't eaten at a Mellow Mushroom in SO long. Thanks guys, I hope that the pie looks okay to y'all! -Cory

Cory,

I think you did well on your first MM pizza.

Good to hear the MM pie is your favorite so far.

I don’t think we ever figured out what brand of Parmesan cheese MM uses to dust the rims, but any Parmesan should work. I don’t think MM cooks their sauce from what I tasted at MM, but if you like cooked sauce that is fine.

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #1675 on:** April 25, 2012, 01:22:02 PM »

Quote from: tonymark on April 25, 2012, 11:05:01 AM

I know that MM pizza tastes buttery, but do they spread butter on the crust?

tonymark,

MM does brush what looks like butter on the rim before the Parmesan is applied from what I saw at MM.

Norma

tonymark · « **Reply #1676 on:** April 25, 2012, 03:23:55 PM »

I assume the butter is applied after, or is it before? Is it the same for the parmesan?

norma427 · « **Reply #1677 on:** April 25, 2012, 04:03:45 PM »

Quote from: tonymark on April 25, 2012, 03:23:55 PM

I assume the butter is applied after, or is it before? Is it the same for the parmesan?

tonymark,

The butter is applied after the bake, usually with a brush. Then the Parmesan is sprinkled on after the butter.

Norma

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1678 on:** April 25, 2012, 05:43:35 PM »

Cory,

I agree with the others. You are off to a good start with the MM clone. As you gain more experience with working with MM clone doughs, you will see even better results.

I saw today in your post in the Pizza Toppings board at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18885.msg184265.html#msg184265 that you would like to try a dough recipe that calls for using honey. Since you like the MM style of pizza, you might want to take a look at the dough formulation at Reply 722 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg160094/topicseen.html#msg160094. At the time I posted the above reply, we did not know if Mellow Mushroom was using honey. This led to a fair amount of discussion about veganism and, more specifically, whether a product using honey was in keeping with the principles of veganism. We eventually concluded that honey was not vegan, and later MM confirmed that they did not use honey in their dough. However, there are quite a few MM diners who believe that MM uses honey.

The abovereferenced dough formulation is also somewhat different from what we now know about real MM doughs, including the thickness factor and, we believe, the baker's percents for some of the ingredients. However, the values are in the ballpark and, I believe, are conducive to making a nice crust and pizza, even if it is not an MM clone.

Peter

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1679 on:** April 25, 2012, 08:50:37 PM »

@CDN - Thank you so much, I can't wait to give your recommendation a try too! Gonna be good eats I bet.

@Tonymark - I preheated my oven at 500 for about two hours with my stone in the lower middle of the oven and then lowered it to 475 when I loaded the pie onto the stone. I think I am just going to go with 475 for the preheat and bake tonight if that sounds like a good plan. And how long do you preheat with your stone at 475? I think I am going too long for this kind of pie.

@Norma - Thank you so much Norma, I don't know why I liked the cooked sauce, maybe it is because I like my tomatoes pretty salty and garlicky. Cooking them down for about an hour really infuses them with the flavor. I tried letting them sit in the fridge overnight once in the herbs and even hit them with my stick blender to make them smooth like my sauce but it was a bust. I guess I'll just have to go against the grain from most people and have cooked sauce on my pie! (And uncooked for when I have people over for a party that prefer otherwise.

) BTW, does your MM pies have a good bit of chew? My pie was pretty chewy, but I really liked it. (Probably that extra VWG I added to the KABF)

@Peter - Thank you too Peter, it's good to hear that you think I did okay for my first attempt. I am hoping this dough tonight isn't overfermented. BTW, is overblown and overfermented the same word? I have really been quite lost on the meaning of both words, but from what I can tell it means that the dough has let the yeast activity go to it's breaking point and the dough ball has a tendency to de-gas itself and becomes very slack and prone to tearing when stretching, almost like a dough without enough gluten formation. Does this sound correct?

I will definitely give the honey formulation a try, I may even top it with a little bit of honey if I can find a good topping combination that would work with a sweeter touch. I may take the dough with the honey/molasses formula and adjust the thickness factor to the one I made last night if that's possible without throwing off the ingredient weights. Last nights pie was just right for me in thickness, I honestly think that may be why I liked it so much. Not to thick and definitely not too thin.

Once again though, thank you all for the encouraging words. It really helps to keep someone trying to achieve better in their baking journey to see people appreciating what you achieve in the kitchen. I know I love looking and complimenting good pies, makes me want to get out there and try them for myself! Have a great day guys and gals. -Cory