Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 218577 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1725 on: June 07, 2012, 11:12:23 AM »
You do need to let the dough ball come up to room temperature

Norma,

What you said in the above quote is quite common, but when the dough is tempered it should be "at" room temperature, not tempered until it reaches room temperature. Tom Lehmann has addressed this issue so many times that he very often capitalizes the word AT for emphasis, for example, as he did in Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18798.msg183580/topicseen.html#msg183580. It may well be that Tom knows how hot it can get around a deck oven. But, even here in Texas, room temperatures this time of year and for the rest of summer can get quite high--far higher than one would want to approach during tempering of the dough.

Peter


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1726 on: June 07, 2012, 12:24:01 PM »
Peter, Very true statement concerning tempering at room temp. I presently have to shuttle dough balls back and forth between the counter and fridge during the time I'm open, it's a delicate balance I've found. I've now realized this is the reason all the local pizza joints roll out their dough rather than work the dough by hand as I do.
Don

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1727 on: June 07, 2012, 02:17:30 PM »
Norma,

What you said in the above quote is quite common, but when the dough is tempered it should be "at" room temperature, not tempered until it reaches room temperature. Tom Lehmann has addressed this issue so many times that he very often capitalizes the word AT for emphasis, for example, as he did in Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18798.msg183580/topicseen.html#msg183580. It may well be that Tom knows how hot it can get around a deck oven. But, even here in Texas, room temperatures this time of year and for the rest of summer can get quite high--far higher than one would want to approach during tempering of the dough.

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for correcting me.  I know what I meant, but posted wrong.  I also have the same problems you have in Texas and Don has at his pizza business, when the temperatures at market are hotter.  It can be a juggling act to keep the dough balls under control at higher temperatures.

Norma

Offline cptbingo2000

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1728 on: July 03, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »
Ok... over the course of 2 days, I read this entire thread, only to find the last post was a month ago :(

I just wanted to say that I truly appreciate all the time Pete and Norma have put into cloning the Mellow Mushroom Pie (a year and a half I think...)

However....I have a couple of things to pontificate about...

I have eaten at about 10 different Mellow Mushroom restaurants from Florida to Virginia, and have never once been inclined to describe their dough as "sweet".  Now I understand perceived levels of sweetness is a personal and subjective thing, but I truly can't recall ever thinking that at all.  But what I have noticed, is that the sweetness actually comes from the sauce, which I love, and was sad to see that it was only mentioned like 3 or 4 times in 87 pages.

Every time I visit a MM, I make sure I sneak into the kitchen, even if only briefly under the guise of "can't find the bathroom", and I have noticed that they all have used Escalon 6-in-1 Crushed Tomatoes in Heavy Puree, as well as the Escalon Bonta Pizza Sauce.  You can see the 10lb. cans of them piled up on the racks.  The only part I don't know is the proportions that are used of each, and all of my inquiring of store personnel has ended with the familiar "trade secret" retort.

I only harp on this because I thought you guys were going for a MM clone, and to me, every part of it has to get as close to the original as possible, but yet the scarce mention of sauce.  I don't know about everyone else who has the pleasure of eating there, but I don't eat my pizza a layer at a time....I bite down as fast as I can to savor the whole flavor and texture experience while trying to avoid destroying the roof of my mouth or tongue from the heat.

I want to reiterate that the time and effort that has been put into this thread is beyond amazing, but I just couldn't help but feel the whole MM experience was being shortchanged by leaving out the attention to detail of a major ingredient that the dough received.

So all that being said, I sit here awaiting my Escalon products from PennMac and my KASL flour from Publix (special order), because we eat at least 3-4 MM's per month, and frankly, it's probably cheaper to be a dope addict. :)

Thanks for letting me ramble, and I'll tell you how mine turns out soon!


Woody

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1729 on: July 03, 2012, 07:00:05 PM »
Woody,

I tip my hat to you for having the stamina to make it through the entire thread. The skeletons of many other members litter the trail that has brought you to this point. Some, including members who have professed their undying love for MM pizzas, just took a look at the MM thread and exited stage right.

I personally do not believe that we gave short shrift to the MM pizza sauce. For example if you look at Reply 40 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg151292.html#msg151292, under the section The MM Sauce, you will seen an early discussion of the MM pizza sauce, including the fact that MM uses fresh-pack tomatoes and no refined sugar in the sauce--only tomatoes, herbs and water (the last ingredient of which usually suggests a heavy or thick tomato product, or else a cost-saving measure by thinning the canned tomatoes). We have always pretty much known who the major sources of fresh-pack tomatoes are (mainly Stanislaus and Escalon) but not the specific one in MM's case. So, I thank you for telling us which of the Escalon fresh-pack tomatoes MM is using.

I also took a stab at explaining some of the possibilities why some MM diners have noted a decided sweetness in MM crusts whereas others (maybe in the majority) have not, at Reply 1269 at
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg170160.html#msg170160. In the sample of the MM crust that I ate, I tasted the crust separately and apart from the sauce and, to my palate, the crust had a noticeable sweetness. I believe that Norma had a similar experience.

But you have added an important additional piece of the MM puzzle, so that should help members get closer to a more credible clone.

A good part of what I have done in this thread has been for the benefit of Norma, since she was hoping that she might be able to offer an MM clone to her customers at market. Alas, that did not materialize. Apparently her customers were not lusting for MM clones. That helps explain why activity on this project has declined recently (but also because we don't know what specific molasses product MM is using).

I look forward with interest to you experiments in attempting an MM clone.

Peter
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 08:39:56 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline cptbingo2000

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1730 on: July 03, 2012, 09:24:18 PM »
Thanks for your reply Pete.  I do now recall the links to the replies you mentioned.  I'm glad I could help fill in a piece of the puzzle.  The sauce is one of the main reasons we frequent there, as my wife has a sensitive stomach to Citric Acid, and a lot of places use Stainslaus, which seems to be loaded with it.  Escalon does not add any to their tomatoes, so we try to find places that use them.

One more thing, as I read through all the posts, I wondered what execs at Mellow Mushroom would think of this huge thread.  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery they say.

Cheers!

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1731 on: July 04, 2012, 12:15:03 AM »
Woody,

Contrary to what you may think, most tomato products contain citric acid, even the ones from Escalon, as I once noted in Reply 58 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.msg160409.html#msg160409. Also, if you look at the ingredients lists (under Nutrition Facts) for the Stanislaus tomato products, at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/nutrition-facts, you will see mention of naturally-derived citric acid. Technically, I do not believe that the FDA regulations require that naturally-occurring ingredients be listed although some companies do so anyway.

I have sometimes also wondered what MM executives would think if they saw this thread. They would perhaps think that Norma and I belong in a home somewhere but at the same time they would perhaps tell their employees to keep their mouths shut. One of the wise things MM did, however, was to state serving sizes in their Nutrition Facts but not specify the weighs of the serving sizes. That makes it harder to reverse engineer and clone their products.

Peter

Offline tonymark

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1732 on: July 04, 2012, 08:32:10 AM »
Ate the oldest Mellow Mushroom in existence last Thursday and I tasted cinnamon in the crust.  My wife stated that they serve a cinnamon bread stick or pretzel at that location. 

I am starting to wonder if they may slip a little cinnamon into all their pizza dough in small quantities.  Maybe below the taste level, but with the aromatic benefits.

Thoughts?
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1733 on: July 04, 2012, 09:36:18 AM »
Woody,

I agree with Peter that you sure had stamina in reading this whole thread.  Interesting that you didnít note any sweetness in the MM pies you tasted.  When I went to DC, there was a sweet note to the crust (not a lot), although I know each person tastes sweetness in different ways.

Another member of the forum (that is working on cloning another type of pizza) sent me this picture in an email of Mellow Mushroomís sauce that he found on the web taken by some HJ Heinz East Coast employees when they visited the Escalon Plant in California.  If you could purchase some both of the products you saw in MM pizza businesses you might be able to come up with the sauce of MM.  Good luck to you in trying to clone the MM sauce.  It would be another part of the MM pizza solved.  :)

Peter was right that I was only trying to make a decent MM clone to make for market, and really didnít try to clone the sauce, but as it turned out my customers werenít really interested in a MM clone pizza.  I think because most of my customers never even heard of a MM pizza in our area, or ever tasted one, that is why they werenít interested in the MM clones I tried.  

I donít think we will know how many members really tried to make a clone MM pizza or if any guests tried out Peterís formulations.   I also think if MM executives looked at this thread they might think Peter and I are off our rockers, but we did have a purpose in mind to try the best we could to make a credible MM pizza.  :-D I did use Stanislaus products in my regular pizzas and my clone MM pizzas.  

As for the molasses, that is also one thing we arenít sure of and might not ever know.  I recently saw an article on Baking & Snack formulations in an email I receive and saw that different sweeteners are used in different products.  I had wondered about the White Sorghum syrup that Breiss Malt & Ingredients Co. sells. http://www.briess.com/food/Products/nswss.php  I wonder when that product was first introduced and how it would fare in a MM clone.

This is the picture the one member emailed me, (but it is in bmp format) so I tried to post it, but can't.  The member also emailed me pictures of the MM pizzas he purchased.  They didnít look like my clone MM pies, at least in my opinion.  If anyone know how to change a bmp format to a jpg format, let me know.

The picture of Mellow Mushoom sauce says on the box with basil.

Norma
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 07:05:12 PM by norma427 »


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1734 on: July 04, 2012, 06:29:19 PM »
Have a Happy Fourth of July from MM and me!  :P

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1735 on: July 04, 2012, 09:06:34 PM »
Ate the oldest Mellow Mushroom in existence last Thursday and I tasted cinnamon in the crust.  My wife stated that they serve a cinnamon bread stick or pretzel at that location. 

I am starting to wonder if they may slip a little cinnamon into all their pizza dough in small quantities.  Maybe below the taste level, but with the aromatic benefits.

Thoughts?

tonymark,

Companies, including Mellow Mushroom, are under no legal duty to disclose the ingredients in their products although there are some, like Domino's, who go to extraordinary lengths to do so. However, if they do so, they have to comply with the FDA rules and regulations that govern ingredients lists and what should be in them and how the ingredients are expressed.

If MM were using cinnamon as a dough ingredient and it also produced an ingredients list as mentioned above, under the FDA rules and regulations the cinnamon would have to be listed. Having researched the MM dough for so long, I do not ever recall reading anywhere that MM is using cinnamon in its dough so I would tend to doubt that MM is using cinnamon. But, if it were to do so, then it would be at the MM commissary since it would be poor quality control practice to let licensees/franchisees do it at the store level. It is is quite possible, however, that if there is cinnamon used at the work areas in MM stores where pizzas are made and assembled, for example, for pretzels, some of that cinnamon might find its way into a dough ball used to make a pizza.

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1736 on: July 04, 2012, 10:07:02 PM »
An employee prolly snacked on one of the Cinnamon products and your pizza got baked in that same pan...
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1737 on: July 06, 2012, 11:20:58 PM »

So all that being said, I sit here awaiting my KASL flour from Publix (special order), because we eat at least 3-4 MM's per month, and frankly, it's probably cheaper to be a dope addict. :)

Woody

Yo Woody - what kinda price you gettin' on that KASL from Publix?

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1738 on: July 08, 2012, 09:18:59 PM »
I mixed a dough ball by hand using Daveís (Tampa) formulation at Reply 6  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19879.msg195106.html#msg195106  and used the Dominio molasses in the formulation.  The dough ball is now being frozen until tomorrow.

The only reason I am testing Daveís formulation out is I am somewhat unsure of how close my MM attempts were.  Being it has been awhile since I tried out one of Peterís formulations for a clone MM pizza, maybe I should have also used the MM#7 formulation Peter set-forth for me and made another dough ball, but I didnít.  Maybe I will try out the MM#7 formulation next week.

The one thing I have been thinking about for a little while has been I donít think my crumb texture of my attempts were right and sweetness levels might not have been right (PeterĎs explanation at Reply 1269 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg170160.html#msg170160 ), but maybe that is just me, or my results could have been affected by what Peter posted at Reply 12  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19879.msg195230.html#msg195230 

I sure havenít been using the kind of oven MM uses, my bake times are a lot shorter than MM and I am unsure of how many days MM keeps their dough balls that are made in the commissary.

The dough is a lot lighter than my other attempts and no oil was used in this attempt per DaveĎs formulation. 

Maybe in the future Peter might want me to do the oil test on the little Bob the small dough ball if he doesnít come up with another experiment for part of the dough ball.   

I also was wondering about the sweetness level in the crust and rim, but it appears even members that have tasted MM pizzas also think the MM pizzas look different or even have different sweetness levels they perceive.  Maybe, I also will need to see how a MM pizza tastes if I can ever go to a MM pizza business again. 

Picture of Daveís formulation when the dough was mixed and final dough ball with cornmeal.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1739 on: July 08, 2012, 09:54:03 PM »
Norma,

If you look at the MM Nutrition Facts for the pretzels with cinnamon and honey, at http://mellowmushroom.com/public/nutritionfacts102411.pdf, you will see 5 grams of fat per serving (one-half order of three pretzels). Since there is no fat in the cinnamon or honey, that means that the 5 grams of fat have to be in the dough. As you know, the same dough is used by MM to make both pretzels and pizzas.

I didn't think to mention it before, but we also don't know exactly how MM makes and freezes its dough balls. That can also affect the ultimate performance of the dough when used to make pizzas.

It is unlikely that we will get the same results as MM in a home setting, or in your case at market, even if all the numbers for our clones line up with the MM Nutrition Facts, as was pretty much the case with many of the MM clone dough formulations I came up with after the hydration bake tests. The operating environments are too different. To get closer to a real MM dough and pizza, you would have to have access to more real MM pizzas, note the differences, and modify your dough formulation through tests until you are satisfied.

Since you decided not to offer MM clone pizzas at market, is there a reason why you have resurrected your interest in that style?

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1740 on: July 08, 2012, 10:38:12 PM »
Norma,

If you look at the MM Nutrition Facts for the pretzels with cinnamon and honey, at http://mellowmushroom.com/public/nutritionfacts102411.pdf, you will see 5 grams of fat per serving (one-half order of three pretzels). Since there is no fat in the cinnamon or honey, that means that the 5 grams of fat have to be in the dough. As you know, the same dough is used by MM to make both pretzels and pizzas.

I didn't think to mention it before, but we also don't know exactly how MM makes and freezes its dough balls. That can also affect the ultimate performance of the dough when used to make pizzas.

It is unlikely that we will get the same results as MM in a home setting, or in your case at market, even if all the numbers for our clones line up with the MM Nutrition Facts, as was pretty much the case with many of the MM clone dough formulations I came up with after the hydration bake tests. The operating environments are too different. To get closer to a real MM dough and pizza, you would have to have access to more real MM pizzas, note the differences, and modify your dough formulation through tests until you are satisfied.

Since you decided not to offer MM clone pizzas at market, is there a reason why you have resurrected your interest in that style?

Peter


Peter,

I still can not look at pdf. documents on my computer because of a runtime error, but thanks for telling me there is 5 grams of fat per serving in one-half order of three pretzels.  I can understand since no fat is in the cinnamon or honey, and that means that the 5 grams of fat have to be in the dough.  I also know the same dough is used by MM to make both pretzels and pizza.  I actually saw the MM workers at DC use the same dough balls to make the pretzels as they used to make the pizzas.

I know we donít know exactly how MM makes and freezes their dough balls.  I would guess they flash freeze them, but can understand how they make their dough balls can also affect the ultimate performance of the doughs when used to make the pizzas.  The dough balls at MM looked to me to like normal dough balls that were somewhat dry, but then I donít know how old they were.  

I understand it is unlikely that we will get the same results as MM in a home setting, or at market like I had been trying.  My daughter tried to purchase me dough balls when she was in Atlanta last month, but the MM she visited didnít sell dough balls.  I would have liked to do more tests on some MM dough balls.  

I have always been interested in the clone MM pizzas and I really like them.  I had just been thinking about if my MM attempts were anything like a MM pizza in the texture.  Maybe, I tend to over think things about the texture I achieved and really what the texture was when I had the pizzas from MM.   I also wonder how my taste buds are in tasting sweetness.  The sweetness issue is one reason I wanted to try Daveís formulation, since he said he can taste the sweetness in his formulation.  I still havenít ruled out trying to sell MM pizzas at market.  I might give it another attempt since summer is here and there are more customers at market.  

Norma  
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 10:39:49 PM by norma427 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1741 on: July 09, 2012, 12:13:57 AM »

  I had just been thinking about if my MM attempts were anything like a MM pizza in the texture.  Maybe, I tend to over think things about the texture I achieved and really what the texture was when I had the pizzas from MM.   
Norma,

Here is why I said yesterday that I feel you nailed the MM bake/texture.....reply 1201.     http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg169252.html#msg169252

As you know, mine was made with a real MM dough ball and it is here...http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg167178.html#msg167178

10-4 ?.....;-)

Bob
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 12:39:06 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1742 on: July 09, 2012, 08:03:57 AM »
Norma,

Here is why I said yesterday that I feel you nailed the MM bake/texture.....reply 1201.     http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg169252.html#msg169252

As you know, mine was made with a real MM dough ball and it is here...http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg167178.html#msg167178

10-4 ?.....;-)

Bob



Bob,

I recall when you used a MM dough ball to make a pizza.  You said in your reply that it is sort of hard to describe the taste of the sweetness in the crust.  That is one thing I have been thinking about when I tasted a MM pizza in DC.  I donít think my attempts had the same sweetness that I tasted at MM.  I know we donít know the brand of molasses MM is using either, but somehow with their somewhat lighter doughs, it makes me wonder just how much molasses they use in their formulation.  I also have been thinking about the texture (not oven spring) in the MM pizzas I ate and even from the MM dough balls baked into pizzas that you sent me.  I had tried part of the one dough ball baked at home and the whole dough ball baked at market.  It just seems to me that there was a different texture of being lighter somehow.  Maybe, I donít even remember right, who knows.  :-D

How many MM dough balls have you purchased and bake into MM style pizzas?  Do they all bake the same in your home oven, if you tried more than one dough ball?  Do the dough balls look any different to you in that they might have been thawed and fermented for more than one day?  I canít recall if you local MM gets their dough balls fresh or are they frozen?  

I am still thinking did I really nail the MM bake/texture, although you think I did.  

I know you did offer to send me another MM dough ball and I really appreciate that, but with the high temperatures I think it would be difficult to send a dough balls now, even if it was frozen first.  I know my frozen dough balls, (even when left in the fridge for a part of a day) do defrost and ferment a lot until the next day.  (about 12 hrs.)

Thanks for your thoughts Bob.  :)

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1743 on: July 09, 2012, 10:19:25 AM »
Norma,

In the past, I have written from time to time about some of the differences between baking pizzas in a home setting versus a commercial setting. I have also written how someone, for example, a budding pizza operator, developed a dough formulation at home only to later discover that the pizzas baked up considerably differently in the person's home oven than in a commercial oven using the exact same dough. There have also been professional pizza operators who have taken dough from work to make pizzas at home and got materially different results when baked in their home ovens. For a couple posts on this subject, see Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11670.msg107561/topicseen.html#msg107561 and Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7951.msg68453/topicseen.html#msg68453. See, also, the thread by canadianbacon (Mark) at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3993.msg33307.html#msg33307. I think that most members who attempt MM clones do not expect, or they will eventually learn, that they can't exactly replicate an authentic MM pizza in their home ovens. They might do a little bit better if they have gas ovens than electric ovens, because of a more moist baking environment, but they are not going to get the same results as a Montague oven as used by many MM stores (http://montaguecompany.com/Ovens). If they end up unfulfilled, there is nothing that I can do to console them or help them overcome their grief.

In my case, if the objective is to try to replicate a commercial dough formulation, I will always go with the numbers, even if they might sometimes be wrong, as we discovered a while back with the Pepe's dough. I am not a trial and error type. I want a benchmark (like a real MM dough in this case) staring me in the face at all times since I can't trust my memory about an MM pizza that I only had once--in August, 2011--and was followed by many more clones that no doubt blurred and muddied my memory of the original MM pizza. In your case, you will always have a better chance of replicating the MM dough and pizza because you at least have a commercial oven (which I believe is gas-fired) and you have all of the right ingredients, including bromated high-gluten flours. To the extent you can identify the differentiating factors between a real MM dough/pizza and your own versions, then you might try to determine how to breach the gap.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1744 on: July 09, 2012, 10:36:39 AM »


  Maybe, I donít even remember right, who knows.  :-D

How many MM dough balls have you purchased and bake into MM style pizzas?  Do they all bake the same in your home oven, if you tried more than one dough ball?  Do the dough balls look any different to you in that they might have been thawed and fermented for more than one day?  I can't recall if you local MM gets their dough balls fresh or are they frozen?  

I am still thinking did I really nail the MM bake/texture, although you think I did.  


Norma,Norma,Norma.....you silly goose. I keep tell'in ya you did good, kid!   ;D  Don't make me come over there......

I've made maybe 3 or 4 of 'em and they all look about the same. But ya know what..the poofy rim always looks waaay lighter in color when I check out the customers pies while at MM picking up a dough ball. They make theirs (cornicione) a 'lil bigger than ours too.
Here in the Durham shop they are using frozen and every time they have looked like they were maybe "put up wet" or summ'in cause they have kind of a dry,whitish tint to them....a bit of cornmeal dusting too as you remember.

Like I said Miss Norma, I got no problem with sending you another or two so if you wanna play jus pm that address that I told you I lost.

Stay cool   8)  an have a great day at Market tomorrow.

Bob
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1745 on: July 09, 2012, 10:45:51 AM »
Yo Woody - what kinda price you gettin' on that KASL from Publix?

Well, I haven't heard back from them actually.  I went in and filled out a little form, and the lady looked on her PC and said she should be able to get it, but only when they placed their big "special order" order (which could take a couple of weeks).  So after reading this thread, I was hungering for a MM so bad, but my wife wouldn't drive to Franklin to get me one.  I went ahead and ordered a bag from kingarthurflour.com along with some Red SAF IDY, so hopefully,i should be making some clones by the weekend, as long as my tomatoes get here from pennmac.com  I might have to go downtown and order one in the mean time...

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1746 on: July 09, 2012, 11:09:57 AM »
Norma,

In the past, I have written from time to time about some of the differences between baking pizzas in a home setting versus a commercial setting. I have also written how someone, for example, a budding pizza operator, developed a dough formulation at home only to later discover that the pizzas baked up considerably differently in the person's home oven than in a commercial oven using the exact same dough. There have also been professional pizza operators who have taken dough from work to make pizzas at home and got materially different results when baked in their home ovens. For a couple posts on this subject, see Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11670.msg107561/topicseen.html#msg107561 and Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7951.msg68453/topicseen.html#msg68453. See, also, the thread by canadianbacon (Mark) at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3993.msg33307.html#msg33307. I think that most members who attempt MM clones do not expect, or they will eventually learn, that they can't exactly replicate an authentic MM pizza in their home ovens. They might do a little bit better if they have gas ovens than electric ovens, because of a more moist baking environment, but they are not going to get the same results as a Montague oven as used by many MM stores (http://montaguecompany.com/Ovens). If they end up unfulfilled, there is nothing that I can do to console them or help them overcome their grief.

In my case, if the objective is to try to replicate a commercial dough formulation, I will always go with the numbers, even if they might sometimes be wrong, as we discovered a while back with the Pepe's dough. I am not a trial and error type. I want a benchmark (like a real MM dough in this case) staring me in the face at all times since I can't trust my memory about an MM pizza that I only had once--in August, 2011--and was followed by many more clones that no doubt blurred and muddied my memory of the original MM pizza. In your case, you will always have a better chance of replicating the MM dough and pizza because you at least have a commercial oven (which I believe is gas-fired) and you have all of the right ingredients, including bromated high-gluten flours. To the extent you can identify the differentiating factors between a real MM dough/pizza and your own versions, then you might try to determine how to breach the gap.

Peter


Peter,

Thank you for the links to where you have written about differences between baking pizzas in a home setting versus a commercial setting.  I do know from baking the same doughs at home and at market that they both can turn out different pizzas.  My home oven doesnít even get to 550 degrees F.  If the same dough formulation is baked in Steveís oven (at 550 or above) it can make almost the same pizza as my deck oven, but not exactly the same.  I can understand no matter what oven I try it wonít be like MM Montague ovens.  I saw they have a fairly high heat space and do take longer to bake then my deck oven.  I do have a propane gas deck oven at market with a lot lower head space than MM Montague ovens. 

I know your objective is to try and replicate a commercial dough formulation with the numbers. 

I donít think I ever will be able to identify all the differentiating factors between a real MM dough/pizza and my own attempts.  There are far too many variables.  I guess I will just let it go for now.

Norma 

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1747 on: July 09, 2012, 11:18:54 AM »
Norma,Norma,Norma.....you silly goose. I keep tell'in ya you did good, kid!   ;D  Don't make me come over there......

I've made maybe 3 or 4 of 'em and they all look about the same. But ya know what..the poofy rim always looks waaay lighter in color when I check out the customers pies while at MM picking up a dough ball. They make theirs (cornicione) a 'lil bigger than ours too.
Here in the Durham shop they are using frozen and every time they have looked like they were maybe "put up wet" or summ'in cause they have kind of a dry,whitish tint to them....a bit of cornmeal dusting too as you remember.

Like I said Miss Norma, I got no problem with sending you another or two so if you wanna play jus pm that address that I told you I lost.

Stay cool   8)  an have a great day at Market tomorrow.

Bob


Bob,

Thanks for saying I did good.   :)

That was one thing I had wondered about is the lighter rims as you also noticed in customers pies at MM. Thanks for telling me they used frozen dough balls at the Durham MM.  After I posted about your MM business having fresh or frozen dough balls I remembered you werenít in Georgia.  I donít know what the whitish tint is on the dough balls.  I remember when you posted the picture of the one dough ball you have purchased at MM how wet it looked.  

I think right now is too hot to be sending dough balls, but I appreciate your kind offer very much.  :)

Thanks also for saying to stay cool and have a good day at market.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1748 on: July 09, 2012, 07:21:52 PM »
Peter,

I had mentioned in my post at Reply 1733 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg194672.html#msg194672  about the Briess Sweet White Sorghum Syrup.  I decided to see if I could get a sample, maybe not for the MM clone but just to see what is was like.  I filled out the sample request and did ask for the spec sheets.  I didnít get any return call or email, so I thought I wouldnít be getting any of the Briess Sweet White Sorghum Syrup.  I did ask in my request if it could be used for pizza dough.  I received a sample of the Briess Sweet White Sorghum Syrup a little while ago and tasted it.  It is sweet and light tan in color, but I donít understand the sweetness levels on the spec sheet.  The spec sheet does say it is good for pizza crusts.  Maybe you can understand the spec sheet.  If the Breiss Sweet White Sorghum Syrup isnít suitable for a MM clone, then maybe I can try it in another pizza dough.

Steve King of Briess did give me a business card and said if I had any other questions to contact him. 

Did you ever hear of using Briess Sweet White Sorghum Syrup in a pizza dough?

Norma
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 09:46:59 AM by Steve »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1749 on: July 09, 2012, 07:22:21 PM »
Norma