Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes? (Read 98366 times)

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1820 on:** November 13, 2012, 04:42:51 PM »

Quote from: BrianM on November 13, 2012, 11:56:17 AM

Just wanted to say Thanks to the folks who've contributed to this thread. Found it on a Google search, have made it twice (from the PJ clone, replacing the sugar with molasses). I deviated with the use of Lily White flour and found that a 1:1 replacement ratio wasn't enough so I upped the molasses to 20g. I felt that brought the right color and Taste, though the chewiness is less. This was using Brer Rabbit branded molasses (good enough for my BBQ sauce, good enough for my pizza). I'm planning on adding VWG to the next attempt.

BrianM,

You did a nice job with your Papa John's-inspired Mellow Mushroom clone pizza. Can you tell me which PJ clone dough formulation you used?

Peter

BrianM · « **Reply #1821 on:** November 14, 2012, 08:50:54 AM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on November 13, 2012, 04:42:51 PM

BrianM,

You did a nice job with your Papa John's-inspired Mellow Mushroom clone pizza. Can you tell me which PJ clone dough formulation you used?

Peter

See if this link works:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg63672.html#msg63672

It's #45, page 3, of your monster PJ clone thread.

I just realized that I had another deviation, I used ADY instead of IDY (which means it might be #48, same page). First time I rehydrated it as I do with my wifes favorite bread recipe (also with the less molasses), second go-round I just incorporated it into the liquid with the flour (a little at the time, added it to the sifter in the middle of the flour).

Both times it's rested for 3~4 days and had risen enough that I wanted to get it used (not real keen on waiting too long, hard to wait even a couple days most times and all my prior, Vastly inferior, attempts were same-day crusts). Using a standard oven, an old stone (seriously, I must have bought this thing in the 1990's ~ it's moved to 9 different homes, traveled over 6,000 miles, and still fit my needs perfectly), 500deg and only heated as long as it takes for the oven to say it hit 500 (no thermometer, broke in my last move 4 months back). Delivered a crust that was a medium golden and crispy right to the middle.

I've not read most of this or the PJ clone thread... haven't even touched any other threads (time issues). I'm using pre-made sauce in a jar, pre-shredded cheese (with it's wonderful flour/cornstarch coating), and just basically doing my best to drag down the crust. I'm searching on sauce ideas to help fix that right now.

theboozler · « **Reply #1822 on:** December 13, 2012, 10:24:27 AM »

I'd just like to say that this thread is what pushed me to sign up for this forum. Peter and Norma's exhaustive work is impressive.

I started at the beginning and read through pages and pages of this thread until I was overloaded. (that didn't take long)

I've gathered that Peter's formulation #7 at reply 834 is what has been settled on. I'm new to baking and especially pizza making so I have a few questions for you:

1. This dough was designed to be frozen. Are the dough balls formed and frozen immediately after kneading? Or is the dough allowed an initial rising, punched down, then frozen?

2. When thawing do you though on the counter top or in the fridge, maybe both? And roughly how long does the dough take to thaw?

3. At what temperature is this dough best cooked? I assume it was designed for home ovens in the 475 - 550 degree range.

4. I have a ceramic cooker and shouldn't have any problem getting temps around 600-800 degrees. Would this dough benefit from a hot & fast cook?

I made a double batch of mm #7 dough last night (kinda sorta). Because of availability I was forced to make some substitutions: I used ADY, King Arthur bread flour, Grandma's Original Molasses, and filtered water. I increased the amount of yeast by about 1.5 times and proofed it in some of the water. For the other substitutions I kept the quantities the same as the original recipe.

I kneaded by hand until I achieved the window pane and let rise till doubled. After that I formed dough balls and they are now sitting in my freezer.

I realize that the dough formula iterations are designed around specific protein, sugar (etc) levels and all sorts of calculations that are beyond me at the moment so I made no attempt to adjust the formula percentages given my substitutions. (except for increasing the amount of yeast)

I'll post an update after I've baked these pies up! In the meantime any comments on my initial questions and take on the recipe are greatly appreciated.

Also Pete-zza, could you recommend any material to which I could educate my self on the finer points of "dough engineering/chemistry"? Formulae, spreadsheets and details are right up my ally! I'd like to learn to be able to make my own educated adjustments in the future.

theboozler · « **Reply #1823 on:** December 13, 2012, 12:17:51 PM »

Okay I did a little digging into the thread and found where Norma mentions that Grandma's molasses works well at reply #1775. As far as the KABF I see from reply #1806 I need to add more protein. The mixed mass calculation is pretty straightforward, I'll be sure to up the protein percentage next time.

What are y'alls thoughts on using ADY instead of IDY?

norma427 · « **Reply #1824 on:** December 13, 2012, 12:25:31 PM »

theboozler,

Welcome to the forum!

You sure have done a lot of reading if you read though this thread.

The reason we froze the dough was to try and make the dough like MM does. I did mix the dough, scaled and balled and then froze the dough ball, or dough balls right away and usually left them defrost in the fridge, or in my deli case at market for about a day, or a little less. I think I only left my dough balls defrost in the fridge, but wouldn’t see the harm of letting the dough balls defrost at room temperature if you wanted to use them faster to make a pizza. I really don’t have much of any idea of how long the dough balls take to defrost at room temperature, but it could be about 3 hrs. or maybe more, depending on the ambient room temperature. The idea of letting the dough slowly defrost in about a day in the fridge is to let some fermentation to take place. Since you increased the amount of yeast by 1.5 times and left your dough rise till it had doubled in size, you probably can use your dough as soon as it is defrosted, because it has already fermented. I think somewhere on this thread I did defrost a MM clone dough ball in my microwave on defrost until it was defrosted.

I baked the MM clones at different temperatures, but don’t think you need a hotter temperature that about 500-525 degrees F.

I don’t think this dough would be the best to try at the higher temperature of your ceramic cooker, but could be wrong. MM does a longer bake than I did most times.

If you used the formulation Peter set-forth for me at Reply 834 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg161938.html#msg161938 I used Pendletown Power Flour in that formulation and your KABF might turn out like my pizza did, but you still should be able to make a decent MM clone pizza. I used a higher gluten flour than you did. Peter used KABF and vital wheat gluten in some of his formulations. The VWG is to boost the protein to make the KABF act like a higher gluten flour. At Reply 495 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg157994.html#msg157994 Peter explained one formulation he tried using KABF and VWG and told how he defrosted his dough ball. He also told what temperature he baked at and how he baked his MM clone pizza. As he said in that post he pizza did turn out too sweet in the taste of the crust. I am not sure what formulation Peter liked the best of all the ones he tried.

I think Ev (Steve) did make some MM clone on this thread that were not frozen. I forget the amount of IDY he used. If you put different search terms, or words in the search in the top of this thread, it can give you more link to look at if you are searching for something more specific.

Peter might be back to help you more. I really didn’t try ADY, but don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

I look forward to seeing your first MM clone pizzas!

Norma

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1825 on:** December 13, 2012, 12:43:53 PM »

theboozler,
I will second Norma's thought about baking one of these pies in a high temp ceramic cooker. With the addition of molasses in this dough it likes to get real brown on you....but ya never know. A shorter,hot bake would give some really nice oven spring from this dough I'll bet...give it a go boozler.

Good luck!
Bob

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1826 on:** December 13, 2012, 01:00:09 PM »

theboozler,

Norma pretty much answered all of your original questions. In my case, I was making small experimental MM clone pizzas that were smaller than what Norma was making, and I used my food processor because of the smaller amount of dough. I long ago gave up windowpaning dough so I did not do so with my MM clone doughs. I tried letting the dough get a short fermentation at room temperature before freezing the dough, but I mostly went directly to the freezer with my MM clone doughs. I subsequently read an article that Norma found, at http://www.pmqmag-digital.com/pmqmag/201209#pg16, that said that it was not necessary to let the dough sit at room temperature before freezing, do you can go directly from the mixer bowl to the freezer (after coating the dough balls with a bit of oil). It is possible to defrost the dough at room temperature, as Norma noted, but usually I defrosted the frozen MM clone dough balls overnight in the refrigerator compartment of my home refrigerator. I also tried two nights in the refrigerator and that worked well but I wouldn't go beyond two days. As for the baking temperature, I would use around 500 degrees F. The MM clone doughs contain a lot of molasses and if you bake the pizzas at too high an oven temperature, the bottom crust can brown excessively and maybe even burn, as Chicago Bob has already noted.

Next time you should try the MM clone formulations as given and follow the recommended procedures. The changes you made, even if well intentioned, are likely to produce different results because you increased the amount of the yeast, when it should have been lowered for ADY (see more on this below), and because you let the dough double before freezing. Sometimes these types of changes will work but Norma and I were trying to do everything as closely to the MM ways as possible.

ADY can be used instead of IDY but you need about 33% more ADY than IDY by weight. Also, you should rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes before adding the rehydrated ADY to the rest of the formula water, which should be on the cool side.

As for additional material relating to formulas, you might take a look at the forum's dough calculating tools at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html. The dough calculating tool that I use the most, and used for the MM doughs because of the use of molasses, is the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. Each of the tools has a link to explanations on how to the tools.

Peter

theboozler · « **Reply #1827 on:** December 13, 2012, 01:53:43 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on December 13, 2012, 01:00:09 PM

ADY can be used instead of IDY but you need about 25% less ADY than IDY by weight. Also, you should rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes before adding the rehydrated ADY to the rest of the formula water, which should be on the cool side.

Thank you for the quick replies everyone.

I used about 25% to 50% more ADY by weight then IDY. My reasoning was that I read in a few places, mostly over at thefreshloaf.com, that when making this substitution you needed to add about 25%. Perhaps that advice was for volume not by weight? Also I guesstimated I added up to 50% more because measuring 4.725 grams of yeast with a scale with a resolution of 1 gram/ accuracy of +-1 gram is kinda tough!

Anyway, next time I'll decrease the yeast instead, or I'll check a different grocery store for IDY. My usual store was all out.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1828 on:** December 13, 2012, 02:01:04 PM »

theboozler,

I'm sorry. I reacted too hastily on the yeast conversion. You should use more of the ADY but by about a third. I have corrected my last post on this. So long as you use the proper conversion, there should be no need to go out and buy some IDY.

For future reference and convenience, you might want to use this conversion table: http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm. That chart gives both weights and volume measurements.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1829 on:** December 13, 2012, 02:25:00 PM »

Quote from: theboozler on December 13, 2012, 01:53:43 PM

I'll check a different grocery store for IDY. My usual store was all out.

theboozler,

I forgot to mention that supermarkets rarely sell IDY under the designation instant dry yeast. Fleischmann's sells one of their forms of instant dry yeast under the name RapidRise. The dry yeast sold for breadmaking machines is also instant dry yeast. Most of our members who make a lot of pizzas buy their yeast (IDY or ADY) in one-pound packages. There are many places online where the one-pound packages of yeast can be purchased. The big box stores like Sam's and Costco also sell the large packages.

Peter

theboozler · « **Reply #1830 on:** December 13, 2012, 04:27:38 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on December 13, 2012, 02:25:00 PM

theboozler,

I forgot to mention that supermarkets rarely sell IDY under the designation instant dry yeast. Fleischmann's sells one of their forms of instant dry yeast under the name RapidRise. The dry yeast sold for breadmaking machines is also instant dry yeast. Most of our members who make a lot of pizzas buy their yeast (IDY or ADY) in one-pound packages. There are many places online where the one-pound packages of yeast can be purchased. The big box stores like Sam's and Costco also sell the large packages.

Peter

Great thanks, Ill have to remember to shop for yeast at our next costco trip.
Yeah Kroger up the road only had the small jars of Fleischmann's ADY in stock when I went by, I did look for RapidRise and bread machine yeast but no luck. This particular location's shelves are consistently under stocked

.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1831 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:42:08 PM »

Quote from: theboozler on December 13, 2012, 04:27:38 PM

Great thanks, Ill have to remember to shop for yeast at our next costco trip.
Yeah Kroger up the road only had the small jars of Fleischmann's ADY in stock when I went by, I did look for RapidRise and bread machine yeast but no luck. This particular location's shelves are consistently under stocked .

Sometimes stores will have these items located separately in different isles....

theboozler · « **Reply #1832 on:** December 17, 2012, 10:14:41 AM »

Thank you very much to everyone who took part in creating this dough! I cooked up my two dough balls over the weekend and they were quite tasty. I apologize for not taking pictures, we were very hungry and couldn't wait!

I'd say the dough was similar to a MM dough but certainly not the same. Compared to MM they were too chewy and the crumb was more dense, also the flavor seemed a bit bland for MM. I'm going to try again with a higher protein content. I believe 14.2% protein content was the target stated earlier in the thread. Also, I'll skip over the initial rise before freezing.

Overall I was very happy with the pizza and we ate well, but I think I can do better.

How long will this dough keep in the freezer?

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1833 on:** December 17, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »

Quote from: theboozler on December 17, 2012, 10:14:41 AM

Overall I was very happy with the pizza and we ate well, but I think I can do better.

How long will this dough keep in the freezer?

theboozler,

There will always be differences between a pizza prepared and baked in a commercial setting as opposed to a home setting. There are even differences in the different MM locations, even though the dough balls should be about the same at all of the MM locations and the workers should be using the same corporate manual.

As far as freezing the MM clone dough balls is concerned, I would not go beyond two weeks, to be on the safe side. But, that is up to you. If you want to experiment going beyond two weeks, you may be able to define the outer limits in your particular freezer compartment.

Peter

norma427 · « **Reply #1834 on:** January 19, 2013, 01:55:30 PM »

Peter,

I don’t know if your saw the Kosmic Karma pizza on MPM on Slice, but maybe Florida9 might have been looking at the MM thread, or he knows what ingredients go in a MM pizza. http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/01/my-pie-monday-tbd-1-slideshow.html#show-299131

Norma

Pete-zza · « **Reply #1835 on:** January 19, 2013, 02:27:09 PM »

Quote from: norma427 on January 19, 2013, 01:55:30 PM

I don’t know if your saw the Kosmic Karma pizza on MPM on Slice, but maybe Florida9 might have been looking at the MM thread, or he knows what ingredients go in a MM pizza. http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/01/my-pie-monday-tbd-1-slideshow.html#show-299131

Norma,

Florida9 became a member of the forum on December 22, 2012 and last visited the forum earlier this month on January 2 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=21904). I don't know that anyone could have read through this entire thread in that period of time and lived to tell about it or without being put in a quiet home somewhere mumbling something about MM#7, fifteen brands of molasses, hydration bake tests, carpet samples, and Chicago Bob (who also hails from Chicago-land). .

Peter

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1836 on:** January 19, 2013, 02:34:48 PM »

norma427 · « **Reply #1837 on:** January 19, 2013, 02:43:17 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on January 19, 2013, 02:27:09 PM

Norma,

Florida9 became a member of the forum on December 22, 2012 and last visited the forum earlier this month on January 2 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=21904). I don't know that anyone could have read through this entire thread in that period of time and lived to tell about it or without being put in a quiet home somewhere mumbling something about MM#7, fifteen brands of molasses, hydration bake tests, carpet samples, and Chicago Bob (who also hails from Chicago-land). .

Peter

Peter,

I do wonder if Florida9 did get his formulation from this thread somewhere though. Maybe he had information from Chicago Bob.

Norma

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1838 on:** January 19, 2013, 03:44:57 PM »

Quote from: norma427 on January 19, 2013, 02:43:17 PM

Peter,

I do wonder if Florida9 did get his formulation from this thread somewhere though. Maybe he had information from Chicago Bob.

Norma

I believe that would be a violation of pizzamaking.com bylaws.
I...know...Nothink!

alm99 · « **Reply #1839 on:** January 28, 2013, 08:06:23 PM »

AMAZING! I cannot believe this thread I started a little over 6 years ago has turned into this. I mainly lurk and for whatever reason decided to look this up.

I have a lot of reading to do...