Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 151179 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1860 on: November 01, 2013, 05:53:55 PM »
Oh, yes. I've been using November's site almost since the day I discovered it after joining here.

Since you were so active in this thread, and many others, I just wanted a record of which formula you liked best. Don't really know when I'll get around to making it. With your background in pizza making and all the hard work you put in here, I really respect your opinion on matters here.

Again, thanks.

Dwight,

Glad you to hear you have been using November's tools since the day you discovered them.  ;D

Thanks for your kind words.  I really don't think I had a favorite MM formulation though.  I liked most of them. 

When you get around to trying a MM clone pizza post some photos if you can.

Norma
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Offline theboozler

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1861 on: April 14, 2014, 11:09:33 PM »
Well I took another crack at this dough I just wanted to add my data point to this already massive thread. I've only just started making homemade pies, to date they have all left something to be desired. I just made my second attempt at the mellow mushroom dough over the weekend and I have to say, this is the first time I've taken a bite of homemade pizza and told my self "d**n, now that's a good pizza". Not only that, but everyone told me it tastes just like MM. So for any other newbies who might be reading this thread here is what I did.

I started with Pete's MM formula #7.

I used Grandmas original molasses instead of golden barrel because I can't find golden barrel.

I used King Arthur bread flour and Hodgson Mills Vital Wheat Gluten instead of Pendleton power flour. I can't find Pendletons either. I used the mixed mass calculator to come up with a flour mixture of 13.5% protein.

On Wednesday I made my dough, divided into 4 dough balls, and went straight to the freezer.
On Saturday afternoon I moved the dough balls to the fridge to defrost and ferment.
On Sunday evening I made 3 pizzas.
On Monday evening I used my last dough ball to make a calzone.

I cooked my pies in a conventional gas oven, on the middle rack, on top of a preheated Big Green Egg pizza stone. The oven temp was 500 for the pizzas on Sunday, and 475 for Mondays calzone. 7 minutes 30 seconds was just the right time for the pizzas, the calzone cooked about a minute longer.

I used a New York style pizza sauce recipe from seriouseats.com, trader joe's low moisture whole milk mozzarella, and whatever other toppings everyone wanted. I brushed the crusts with a clarified butter and roasted garlic mixture, and sprinkled on some grated Parmesan cheese. The pizzas were great.

Some thoughts:
The dough on Monday night was allowed to rise for an extra day and was certainly much more fermented and ready to go than Sundays dough. Sunday's dough had risen just a little bit but Monday's dough was exploding out of its container. Mondays dough was also much easier to work with and stretch out. I also liked the flavor and texture of Monday's dough better. So, next time I will be allowing my doughs to rise two days in the fridge and cooking my pizzas at 475 degrees. Keep in mind that everyone's oven is different and I could have simply measured out too little yeast, your mileage may very.

I fully expected the pies to take longer to cook, though at under 8 minutes they seemed done to me. What are y'alls opinion on cook time? Perhaps we were eating undercooked pizzas and we're too ignorant to know any better?

Anyway, they tasted great and I'm happy.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 11:12:14 PM by theboozler »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1862 on: April 14, 2014, 11:30:41 PM »
Well I took another crack at this dough I just wanted to add my data point to this already massive thread. I've only just started making homemade pies, to date they have all left something to be desired. I just made my second attempt at the mellow mushroom dough over the weekend and I have to say, this is the first time I've taken a bite of homemade pizza and told my self "d**n, now that's a good pizza". Not only that, but everyone told me it tastes just like MM. So for any other newbies who might be reading this thread here is what I did.

I started with Pete's MM formula #7.

I used Grandmas original molasses instead of golden barrel because I can't find golden barrel.

I used King Arthur bread flour and Hodgson Mills Vital Wheat Gluten instead of Pendleton power flour. I can't find Pendletons either. I used the mixed mass calculator to come up with a flour mixture of 13.5% protein.

On Wednesday I made my dough, divided into 4 dough balls, and went straight to the freezer.
On Saturday afternoon I moved the dough balls to the fridge to defrost and ferment.
On Sunday evening I made 3 pizzas.
On Monday evening I used my last dough ball to make a calzone.

I cooked my pies in a conventional gas oven, on the middle rack, on top of a preheated Big Green Egg pizza stone. The oven temp was 500 for the pizzas on Sunday, and 475 for Mondays calzone. 7 minutes 30 seconds was just the right time for the pizzas, the calzone cooked about a minute longer.

I used a New York style pizza sauce recipe from seriouseats.com, trader joe's low moisture whole milk mozzarella, and whatever other toppings everyone wanted. I brushed the crusts with a clarified butter and roasted garlic mixture, and sprinkled on some grated Parmesan cheese. The pizzas were great.

Some thoughts:
The dough on Monday night was allowed to rise for an extra day and was certainly much more fermented and ready to go than Sundays dough. Sunday's dough had risen just a little bit but Monday's dough was exploding out of its container. Mondays dough was also much easier to work with and stretch out. I also liked the flavor and texture of Monday's dough better. So, next time I will be allowing my doughs to rise two days in the fridge and cooking my pizzas at 475 degrees. Keep in mind that everyone's oven is different and I could have simply measured out too little yeast, your mileage may very.

I fully expected the pies to take longer to cook, though at under 8 minutes they seemed done to me. What are y'alls opinion on cook time? Perhaps we were eating undercooked pizzas and we're too ignorant to know any better?

Anyway, they tasted great and I'm happy.
Pics would help/be very nice.
Thank you.

CB
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1863 on: April 15, 2014, 07:00:43 AM »
Well I took another crack at this dough I just wanted to add my data point to this already massive thread. I've only just started making homemade pies, to date they have all left something to be desired. I just made my second attempt at the mellow mushroom dough over the weekend and I have to say, this is the first time I've taken a bite of homemade pizza and told my self "d**n, now that's a good pizza". Not only that, but everyone told me it tastes just like MM. So for any other newbies who might be reading this thread here is what I did.

I started with Pete's MM formula #7.

I used Grandmas original molasses instead of golden barrel because I can't find golden barrel.

I used King Arthur bread flour and Hodgson Mills Vital Wheat Gluten instead of Pendleton power flour. I can't find Pendletons either. I used the mixed mass calculator to come up with a flour mixture of 13.5% protein.

On Wednesday I made my dough, divided into 4 dough balls, and went straight to the freezer.
On Saturday afternoon I moved the dough balls to the fridge to defrost and ferment.
On Sunday evening I made 3 pizzas.
On Monday evening I used my last dough ball to make a calzone.

I cooked my pies in a conventional gas oven, on the middle rack, on top of a preheated Big Green Egg pizza stone. The oven temp was 500 for the pizzas on Sunday, and 475 for Mondays calzone. 7 minutes 30 seconds was just the right time for the pizzas, the calzone cooked about a minute longer.

I used a New York style pizza sauce recipe from seriouseats.com, trader joe's low moisture whole milk mozzarella, and whatever other toppings everyone wanted. I brushed the crusts with a clarified butter and roasted garlic mixture, and sprinkled on some grated Parmesan cheese. The pizzas were great.

Some thoughts:
The dough on Monday night was allowed to rise for an extra day and was certainly much more fermented and ready to go than Sundays dough. Sunday's dough had risen just a little bit but Monday's dough was exploding out of its container. Mondays dough was also much easier to work with and stretch out. I also liked the flavor and texture of Monday's dough better. So, next time I will be allowing my doughs to rise two days in the fridge and cooking my pizzas at 475 degrees. Keep in mind that everyone's oven is different and I could have simply measured out too little yeast, your mileage may very.

I fully expected the pies to take longer to cook, though at under 8 minutes they seemed done to me. What are y'alls opinion on cook time? Perhaps we were eating undercooked pizzas and we're too ignorant to know any better?

Anyway, they tasted great and I'm happy.


raging-pizza-head,

Thanks for your detailed post! Usually a longer cold fermented dough does taste better.  It is good you could see how the different dough balls performed when cold fermenting longer after the defrost.  I am glad you had good results with using Peter's #7 formulation with Grandmas molasses, and you and everyone else thought it tasted just like an MM pizza.  The Grandma's molasses also performed about the same for me in Peter's #7 formulation compared to the Golden Barrel molasses product.

Norma
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Offline theboozler

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1864 on: April 15, 2014, 01:51:21 PM »
Sorry Chicago Bob, I didn't snap any pictures, I was busy hosting and didn't think about it.

Norma, thanks for reminding me that I'm RagingPizzaHead, that made me laugh! What is your normal cook time on your MM pies?

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1865 on: April 15, 2014, 11:19:20 PM »

What is your normal cook time on your MM pies?


RagingPizzaHead,

It been a long while since I made a MM clone attempt.  I really can not recall what my bake times were.  Since I made most of my MM clone attempts in my Baker's Pride deck oven I don't think we would have the same bake times since you are baking in a home oven.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1866 on: April 15, 2014, 11:21:30 PM »
Around 12-14 min. at home iirc.

CB
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Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1867 on: August 29, 2014, 04:24:25 PM »
I ate a Mellow Mushroom pizza today and I really focused on the crust in light of this thread. My conclusion is that there is rye flour in the dough. I took a bite of the crust and it hit me - it tasted just like a light pumpernickel rye bread.  I found a light pumpernickel rye recipe (pictured below) and you already have the molasses covered. So the dough likely also has some rye flour. Not sure how much though, probably not as much as this recipe. Thoughts?




Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1868 on: August 29, 2014, 05:01:00 PM »
PrimeRib,

I really don't think there is any rye flour in Mellow Mushroom's dough.

Norma
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Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1869 on: August 29, 2014, 07:25:00 PM »
My reasoning for why I think Mellow Mushroom dough contains a little rye flour:

1. I grew up in Northern NJ and ate a lot of rye bread.

2. I now live in Atlanta and have eaten a lot of Mellow Mushroom pizza.

3. Based upon reading this thread, something is still missing from the most recent MM formulation.

4. MM crust is not light and airy. It is denser.

5. The MM crust is similar in color to light pumpernickel rye.

6.  MM crust tastes like light pumpernickel rye, absent the caraway seeds. 

7. Maybe the color of MM crust is solely attributable to molasses, but maybe it's not.

8. There are a lot of internet hits when searching for pizza dough and rye flour.

9. Even this site, dedicated to pizza making, has over 300 hits when searching for rye.

10.  I joined this forum for 2 purposes, one of which is to crack the recipe for the MM dough.




Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1870 on: August 29, 2014, 07:47:44 PM »
My reasoning for why I think Mellow Mushroom dough contains a little rye flour:

1. I grew up in Northern NJ and ate a lot of rye bread.

2. I now live in Atlanta and have eaten a lot of Mellow Mushroom pizza.

3. Based upon reading this thread, something is still missing from the most recent MM formulation.

4. MM crust is not light and airy. It is denser.

5. The MM crust is similar in color to light pumpernickel rye.

6.  MM crust tastes like light pumpernickel rye, absent the caraway seeds. 

7. Maybe the color of MM crust is solely attributable to molasses, but maybe it's not.

8. There are a lot of internet hits when searching for pizza dough and rye flour.

9. Even this site, dedicated to pizza making, has over 300 hits when searching for rye.

10.  I joined this forum for 2 purposes, one of which is to crack the recipe for the MM dough.
Sounds great PrimeRib....are you going to get started on this right away?   :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1871 on: August 29, 2014, 08:17:27 PM »
PrimeRib,


I think if you look at Peter's post at Reply 678 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg159660#msg159660 you will see Melody said the flour used was high-gluten flour. 

I was at a MM location and so was Peter.  I know I did not taste any rye in MM crusts.  Chicago Bob also send me dough to test.

Norma
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Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1872 on: August 29, 2014, 10:14:30 PM »
I think it's a combination of high gluten and rye. I will experiment over the next several weeks.

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1873 on: August 29, 2014, 10:22:09 PM »
I think it's a combination of high gluten and rye. I will experiment over the next several weeks.


PrimeRib,

Good to hear you would experiment over the next several weeks. 

I don't know if you read this whole thread.  A gluten mass test was done on the dough ball Bob sent me.  If there would have been rye in addition to high-gluten flour I think the results of the tests would have been different than what they were.  At Reply 1695 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg185307#msg185307  Peter's explains what it is like to try and reverse engineer a pizza dough.

Maybe you want to purchase a MM dough ball and try the gluten mass test yourself to see if MM might have changed their dough.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1874 on: August 30, 2014, 10:55:09 AM »
Out of curiosity, and to bring myself a bit more up to date on this matter, I did a search to see if I could find a connection between rye flour and the Mellow Mushroom dough. What I found was a single item, at http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g36990-d399799-r191474450-Mellow_Mushroom-Carmel_Hamilton_County_Indiana.html, in which a reviewer by the name of anthony a said: I believe MM uses a rye flour mix. Standing alone without corroboration, that would be insufficient on which to conclude that MM actually uses rye flour in their dough.

As was previously discussed in this thread, at one time MM used wheat germ in their dough. But MM subsequently decided to stop using wheat germ in its dough and, as Norma reported, we were told that MM used only high-gluten flour. But, even after MM stopped using wheat germ, some franchisees continued to report in public documents that their MM dough contained that ingredient. We never did learn why MM stopped using wheat germ. But, as a fairly costly ingredient, especially when compared with flour, that might have been the reason. Usually, companies like the pizza chains are hesitant about changing their dough formulations, for fear that their customers will react negatively to the changes. Apparently, omitting the wheat germ from the MM dough did not have that effect.

Is it possible that MM has changed its dough formulation to include rye flour? Yes, it is if MM changed its dough formulation from what we understood it to be. So, the question is how to prove it. For example, since rye flour is an allergen to some people (more on this below), and since the MM website suggests that diners alert their servers to specific allergies, I checked the allergens list at the MM website at http://www.nutritionix.com/mellow-mushroom/menu/special-diets/premium. That list replaces the previous list that is no longer available at the MM website but I was able to find it at the Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20120526125256/http://mellowmushroom.com/public/allergens102411.pdf. Looking at either list, rye is not an ingredient on the allergens list. That led me to ask myself if MM had any items on their menu using rye flour as an ingredient. I found only one item that mentioned rye, and that was a rye hoagie roll used for the MM Righteous Portobello Reuben hoagie (http://mellowmushroom.com/corpmenu).

Since MM is sensitive to the allergens issue, I suggest that PrimeRib tell his server the next time he is at an MM location that he has allergies to rye flour and ask if that ingredient is used in their pizza dough. PrimeRib might even repeat this exercise by calling MM at corporate headquarters and asking to speak to someone who is familiar with their products and ingredients to be able to answer questions relating to allergens. As can be seen from the article at http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/cleanplatecharlie/2014/04/mellow_mushroom_celebrates_national_celiac_disease_awareness_month_debuts_new_gluten-free_menu.php , MM is sensitive to people with allergies and other adverse reactions to rye, among other grains.

With respect to the gluten mass test that Norma mentioned, as best I can tell, for example, from reading an article at http://www.ivannikolov.com/does-rye-bread-have-gluten/, rye flour contains a protein that includes gliadin, but that protein does not result in the formation of gluten when the rye flour is admixed with water, as is the case with wheat flour. So, if that is true, the gluten mass test would not include any added gluten from the rye flour. It is apparently the gliadin protein that some people are sensitive to. And, for that reason, people who are celiacs or are otherwise sensitive to gluten are advised to avoid rye flour.

I also did a check on the cost of rye flour relative to wheat flour, since in my experience with reverse engineering dough formulations of pizza chains there is a natural reluctance to do anything that materially raises the cost of their products, even for ingredients that are used in small quantities and whose omission might not be missed by consumers. While I do not have access to the pricing of millers of rye flours, especially in bulk quantities such as might be used by someone like MM, I see that Amazon sells a 50-lb bag of rye flour for $45 (http://www.amazon.com/Rye-Flour-Bulk-Pound-Bag/dp/B0007NG4YQ/ref=sr_1_2?m=A2HE5TLSBFOWX&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1409406710&sr=1-2&keywords=rye+flour). That is at least three times the cost of a 50-lb bag of a typical high-gluten flour. In my opinion, having rid itself of wheat germ, and the attendant costs, MM would have to have a good reason to replace the wheat germ with rye flour.

Since PrimeRib appears to be motivated to get to the bottom of this matter, I encourage him in his efforts to that end. 

Peter

P.S. In the course of investigating the above manner, I saw that MM has also updated its Nutrition information, at http://www.nutritionix.com/mellow-mushroom/portal. I was hoping to see the weights of samples of their products but, alas, that information is not provided. Fortunately, I was able to find the old MM Nutrition information, for preservation purposes, at the Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20120105061842/http://mellowmushroom.com/public/nutritionfacts102411.pdf.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1875 on: August 30, 2014, 03:32:09 PM »
FWIW, after my last post, I found another review, at http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g35057-d444292-Reviews-Mellow_Mushroom-Lawrenceville_Georgia.html , in which reviewer fastfxr101 alluded to the possibility that the MM crust has a "touch of rye".

Peter