Author Topic: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method  (Read 82209 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« on: October 22, 2006, 09:56:35 AM »
Recently, at the Lehmann thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg32788.html#msg32788 (Reply 527), I mentioned that I used a markedly different method for preparing the dough in my basic KitchenAid stand mixer, one that yielded a dough that I was able to cold ferment for almost six days--and I believe it could have gone even longer--without signs of overfermentation. The dough also had very good extensibility without ripping or tearing, and the finished crust had outstanding flavor, approximating that which I have only achieved in the past using a natural preferment.

Since I reported on the new dough making method at the Lehmann thread, I have replicated it several times with equally good results. Rather than reporting the results at the Lehmann thread, even though I was using the basic Lehmann dough formulation to make the doughs, I thought it would be better to report on the new method in a new thread (here) since the method potentially has general application beyond the Lehmann application. To summarize, these are the highlights of the new method and the dough prepared using the method:

1) The flour used in the formulation is sifted at least once to improve its hydration.
2) A standard, basic KitchenAid stand mixer is used, with all three mixer attachments--whisk (a.k.a. whip), flat beater (a.k.a. paddle), and dough hook (C-hook)--being deployed in sequence during mixing and kneading.
3) Only one mixer speed--the “stir” speed--is used throughout the entire mixing/kneading process, thereby reducing the possibility of overkneading and the creation of excessive heat in the dough.
4) The dough formulation/preparation can accommodate a high hydration ratio--65% or better when using a high-gluten flour.
5) Autolyse features are used but no standard autolyse rest period(s), thereby reducing total dough preparation time while retaining some of the attributes and benefits of autolyse.
6) The finished dough is subjected to a brief “punch and knead” before refrigeration to improve its strength without overly developing the gluten.
7) The total elapsed time to prepare the finished dough is relatively short, about 10-12 minutes for a dough ball for a 12” pizza.
8) The finished dough has improved handling characteristics and can comfortably withstand five or more days of cold fermentation without exhibiting signs of overfermentation.
9) When long fermentation times are used, the finished crust has flavors approximating those achieved when using preferments.

In brief, with the new method, a high quality dough can be made in a short period of time in a basic KitchenAid mixer, using only the stir speed, and yield a dough that has very good handling qualities, autolyse-like attributes, and endure five or more days of cold fermentation and produce a crust with preferment-like flavors.

What follows in the next post is a description of how I actually implemented the new method.


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2006, 10:01:08 AM »
For purposes of my experimentation, I used the basic Lehmann dough formulation for a 12” pizza, based on a thickness factor of 0.10 and a hydration of 65%. Using the dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html, the final dough formulation was as follows:

KASL Flour (100%):          190.85 g  |  6.73 oz | 0.42 lbs
Water (65%):                   124.05 g  |  4.38 oz | 0.27 lbs
Oil (1%):                           1.91 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.41 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):                    3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.6 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
IDY (0.25%):                     0.48 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.16 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
Sugar (0%):                      0 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0 tsp | 0 tbsp
Total (168%):                   320.63 g | 11.31 oz | 0.71 lbs | TF = 0.1

I started the dough making process by first sifting the flour (KASL). Flour is sifted at the miller’s facility, but I have discovered that with time in storage it can settle and compact and form clumps. So, to improve its hydration, after weighing out the flour I sifted it twice. It is possible at this point to add the IDY to the flour and sift that too, which will more efficiently disperse it within the flour, but I believe that adding the yeast at this time foreshortens the useful life of the dough. I expounded on this aspect recently, in the context of using autolyse, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3919.msg32928.html#msg32928 (Reply 42), and my recent experiments on this point seems to support the above conclusion, as will be discussed more fully below.

In preparation for their use, I coated the bottom parts of the whisk, flat beater and C-dough hook mixer attachments (see the photo below) with a bit of oil, applied very lightly with my fingers. It is not clear whether this was really necessary, but anything that could help keep the dough from sticking to the mixer attachments seemed like a good idea.

The first mixer attachment used was the whisk. It was mounted in my KitchenAid mixer, and all of the water in the formula was added to the mixer bowl. The water came directly out of the refrigerator, at around 40 degrees F. I found no need to temperature adjust the water to achieve the desired finished dough temperature in the 70-75 degrees F range because I suspected that the water would warm up in the bowl and since I was only using the stir speed over a relatively short period of time, the heat buildup in the dough due to machine friction would not be significant. Indeed, that turned out to be the case and the finished dough temperature was around 74 degrees F. I suspect that as the weather turns cooler here in Texas, I will use slightly warmer water and/or a bit more yeast to achieve comparable results.

With the mixer speed set at stir, I then added the sifted flour to the bowl, about a tablespoon at a time, aiming the flour at the center of the whisk. To be sure that as much of the flour as possible went into the whisk and was fully hydrated by the whip, I used a long, thin, flat, semi-flexible plastic spatula (also shown in the photo below) to scrape any random flour from the sides of the bowl-- which was actually quite minimal--into the path of the whisk. I continued to add the flour to the bowl until the dough started to collect in the middle of the whisk. I would estimate that I added about 2/3 of the flour while the whisk was attached and working the batter-like dough.

In my machine, I know when to stop adding the flour when using the whisk because the whisk makes a slight grunting/groaning sound when it can no longer effortlessly mix the dough, thereby serving as an audible signal to stop adding the flour. In my recent experiments, once I heard the sound, I stopped the mixer, removed the whisk, and shook and scraped the dough from the whisk back into the bowl. As one might suspect, some dough stuck to the wires of the whisk. However, I found an easy solution to this problem. While I didn’t use the solution this time, it is to simply increase the thickness factor in the dough calculating tool from 0.10 (as noted in the above formulation) to, say, 0.102 or 0.103. Doing this will automatically increase the total weight of the dough ball by an amount that should reasonably compensate for the small amount of dough that might stick to the whisk and take too much time to remove entirely. So, it’s no big deal if a bit of dough sticks to the whisk and can’t be easily removed. If one has a scale, the weight of the finished dough can be adjusted in any event, if desired, to get the final weight specified in the dough formulation.

Once the whisk had done its job to its maximum efficiency, I switched to the flat beater. I continued adding the flour, again at a tablespoon at a time, and allowed the flat beater to incorporate the added flour into the dough, also at stir speed. Once the dough started to pull off of the sides of the bowl and to gather around the flat beater (a convenient visual indicator), I added the IDY and let it incorporate into the dough, for about 30 seconds. I then added the remaining flour, the salt, and oil and incorporated them into the dough. In my case, I found it necessary to add a bit more water, about 1/2 t., to absorb all the remaining flour and get the desired tackiness in the dough. Just that added 1/2 t. raised the hydration of the dough to 66.4%. Yet, the dough was not just some wet, hard to handle blob.

Readers familiar with the autolyse process may have noted from the above description that I used many features and attributes of that process. Indeed, that was the case. I basically used the classic Calvel autolyse but without the usual rest period(s). As the classic Calvel autolyse dictates, only the flour was added to the water to start, followed later in the process by the IDY, and the salt and oil. Leaving the IDY out of the initial flour/water mixture (although it is an option as noted above) ensured that the dough would not be acidified (it prefers a neutral pH), and leaving the salt out at that point prevented it from affecting the performance of the enzymes (e.g., protease) and from affecting the gluten. Leaving out the oil prevented it from possibly impeding the hydration of the flour. Arguably, there was a small amount of resting of the dough as I switched from one mixer attachment to another, but I estimate that the totality of those incidental autolyse-like “rest” periods was about 1 1/2 minutes, if that. If those brief “rest” periods helped, I am indeed grateful.

After the dough was done kneading, I removed it from the flat beater and replaced the flat beater with the C-dough hook. The dough was kneaded with the dough hook only long enough to produce a smooth, soft, cohesive dough ball with a modest degree of tackiness. To me, the dough had much the feel and softness of an autolysed dough. Maybe not identical, but reasonably close.

As the final step before putting the dough into the refrigerator, I formed the dough into a round ball and placed it on my work surface (unfloured). Then, using the method described and shown at http://www.woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style_dough.htm, with particular reference to Images 4b and 4c, I subjected the dough to about 30 seconds of “punch and knead” in order to strengthen it but without overly developing the gluten structure. With a small quantity of dough that I was making (11.3 ounces), this was a fairly simple exercise and took very little time. Once done, the dough was re-shaped into a round ball with a taut skin, brushed with a very small amount of oil, put into a metal, tightly lidded container, and then into the refrigerator. From the time that the water was first put into the mixer bowl until the finished dough went into the refrigerator, the total elapsed time was about 10-12 minutes. This is a fraction of the time usually consumed when autolyse and similar rest periods are used.

The next post in this series describes the most recent experiments using the method described above.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2006, 10:10:11 AM »
As part of my recent experiments, I made two doughs, one with the IDY added at the beginning and one with the IDY added toward the end. In all other respects, the doughs were as identical as I could make them. I found that while both doughs handled very well and were extensible and with good “anti-rip” qualities, and with no visible signs of overfermentation, the dough with the early introduction of the IDY did not have as long a window of usability as the dough with the later introduction of the IDY. The “early-IDY” dough was used about 5 1/2 days after formation, while the “late-IDY” dough was used after about 7 days. In both cases, I felt the doughs could have gone even longer. To be on the safe side, however, I decided to make pizzas out of both doughs rather than risk overfermentation. I was operating in new territory since I had never made functional doughs with such long periods of fermentation. In fact, I usually have difficulty in being able to get more than 3 days out of a standard Lehmann dough before using my standard KitchenAid mixer.

The first photo shown below is that of the late-IDY dough just after it was removed from the refrigerator (I did not take a photo of the early-IDY dough at the same stage). As with the early-IDY dough, it started out in the container as a round ball and gradually flattened. The early-IDY dough flattened faster and more than the late-IDY dough, leading me to conclude that the early-IDY dough fermented faster than the late-IDY dough. Both doughs had been put into similar containers and were put into the same part of my refrigerator compartment and in all respects were treated as identically as I could. Because of the type of containers I used and the dough flattening process, it is hard to say whether and how much expansion of the doughs took place. In a future experiment, I will use a narrow plastic container with straight sides to be able to note the actual degree of expansion.

About two hours after each of the doughs was removed from the refrigerator and brought to room temperature, it was shaped, sauced, cheesed, topped, and baked. Both pizzas were prepared in essentially the same manner except that I forgot to put fresh basil and oregano on the late-IDY pizza after it was finished baking. Each pizza was baked for about 6 minutes on a pizza stone at the lowest oven rack position that had been preheated for about an hour to about 500-550 degrees F. The pizza was then moved to the top oven rack position for about an additional minute or so to increase the top crust coloration. No broiler element was needed or used to develop more top crust coloration.

The finished pizzas are shown in the photos below (the first set is the early-IDY pizza and the second set is the late-IDY pizza). Both pizzas were very good, but I would rate the late-IDY pizza as exceptional and among the best pizzas I have made. Both pizzas had good crust color and very good flavor, but the late-IDY pizza had a deeper and more robust crust color and more bubbles (there were also more bubbles in the dough) and a slightly larger and more airy rim. Both crusts clearly benefited from the long fermentation times and had flavors that approximated what I have only been able to achieve in the past through the use of natural preferments. Clearly, almost 6-7 days of fermentation produces significant amount of flavor-contributing by-products.

What surprised me most about the two pizzas was the noticeable sweetness in the crusts. This was consistent with my prior results using the new method and I am somewhat at a loss to understand why the crusts were sweet since I did not add any sugar to the basic dough formulation. What also surprised me is why, after about 6-7 days of fermentation, there was enough residual sugar in the doughs to promote both crust color and sweetness. I would normally have expected little color in the crust (and therefore requiring help from the broiler) and virtually no sweetness. As best I can determine, possibly what happened is that the sugars were released by enzyme performance from the starches in the flour but were not all used by the yeast as food and were therefore available for its other purposes. Whatever the answer is, the results were very good.

As the next post discusses, there are open issues to be further explored.


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2006, 10:15:21 AM »
I believe what I have done with the abovedescribed effort is just a starting point for further experimentation. For example, I don’t know which parts of the method are essential and which are not although I tried to optimize the process at each point and had a reason and purpose for each step. Uncertainty is what happens when one changes so many variables at one time. But, I did this intentionally, taking a page out of Jeff Varasano’s book--starting from scratch and deconstructing the entire dough making process and trying to put everything back together again with ideas that I felt would improve the process and, hopefully, were grounded in good science. I was also influenced by new member November in this latter respect.

What I was particularly looking for was a way of getting more and better efficiency out of my basic KitchenAid mixer, which I have criticized on many occasions on this forum and truly believe is a weak link in the home pizza making chain (along with the standard unmodified home oven). I did not want to go to a DLX machine or better because, as good as such machines may be, for me they would be a case of overkill since I almost always make small dough batches, just enough to make a pizza of up to 16” and, on rare occasion, 18”. What I did is mainly for people like me with basic KitchenAid (or similar) mixers. I also wanted to avoid using lengthy, multiple autolyse and similar rest periods. So, a total of 10-12 minutes of dough preparation time seemed about perfect for me when making small batches of dough, and rendered somewhat moot whether I needed one or more rest periods and of what duration(s).

I also don’t yet know how the method scales up to larger dough batch sizes, especially when the whisk attachment is used. Or whether using speeds other than stir will be an improvement, although I would be happy to discover that using only the stir speed, or even the “1” speed, is entirely sufficient, given that I was also trying to keep down the heat of friction. And I don’t know what adding a natural preferment will do to the final results, although I suspect they would be favorable. And I’m not sure what the optimum (cold) fermentation time is. It may also be that the punch and knead step is not needed.

Whatever ensues from this point, it strikes me that the overall method is not limited to a Lehmann-style dough formulation. It should work equally well with similar dough formulations used for making standard, flat pizzas based on fairly high hydration levels. I feel pretty confident from my experimentation to date that the hydration level can be increased above 65% when using a high-gluten flour. I just don’t know how far.

My plan at this juncture is to continue to use the new method to determine its strengths and weaknesses and to look for ways of improving the results. For the most part, I will perhaps stick with the 12” dough batch size because 12” is a common and popular size and 12” pizzas fit nicely on my pizza stone.

If others find merit in the method, they of course should feel free to do their own experimentation and, if they wish, report on their results at this thread, or other suitable place on the forum.

Peter

Offline David

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 966
  • What’s So Funny ‘Bout Pizza Love and Understanding
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2006, 12:36:44 PM »
Very insightfull post Peter.I'll be interested to see a side by side comparison of similar, utilizing natural starter over such a period and the resulting taste results?A sainthood is sure to follow soon I predict.(assuming Sant’Antonio Abate doesn't object  ;))
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2006, 01:19:04 PM »
David,

Thank you. If there is anything novel in the new technique, it would have to be some aspect of the combination, because every step, with the possible exception of using the whisk to aerate the water/flour combination and better hydrate the flour, is old. As an example, when I did a site search on using sifted flour, I found many instances where members did that, although its use was not highlighted. Of course, lubricating the mixing attachments (an old Alton Brown tip) and using autolyse in any of its many forms is not new, nor is the punch and fold technique. Hence, the austere topic description. If sainthood becomes a reality, maybe the topic description can be changed :).

Peter

Offline Christopher

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 104
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2006, 02:30:32 PM »
Hey, Peter,
I just wanted to say that i have a Kitchenaid Pro series with a spiral hook and i have always only used stir speed. this comes from my fear of overheating the machine and the instructions for mine say to only use this speed for yeasted doughs. right or wrong, i have no idea. my doughs are inconsistent at best, so if i'm missing out on something, please chime in.
i definately need to better my technique because i have had too many what i felt were underfermented or poorly worked doughs.
Christopher

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2006, 02:58:16 PM »
Christopher,

In my machine, the stir and "1" speed are not much different. And I have used the "2" and "3" speeds as well, usually later in the mixing/kneading process. For the small dough batches that I make, the higher speeds are not a problem. I also don't worry too much about frictional heat because I know that I can use colder water to compensate. However, I would rather not use water that is too cold because it can potentially shock the yeast or at least slow it down. Consequently, when I plan to use IDY early in the process, I usually disperse it in the flour as soon as I can to let the moisture in the flour help start the yeast activation process. Another option is to use slightly warmer water and less yeast.

I chose the stir speed in the new method just to keep things simple, plus I know from experience that using high mixer speeds will lead to more heat generation and increase the finished dough temperature. Since machines differ so much, this is an area where one should just experiment.

Peter

Offline ELeight

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2006, 11:43:59 AM »
Peter,

I really enjoy reading your posts.  The one thing about the above method that jumped out in my mind is the addition of cold water.  In Peter Reinhart's book "A Bread Bakers Apprentice" There is a recipe that Reinhart raves about called "Pain a l'ancienne".  The bread recipe calls for IDY, high hydration, slow short kneading and a fridge fermentation.  The result for me had a sweetness like you mentioned and also a more pronounced cream color to the crumb than I normally see.  In searching the forum I found that Marco has made reference to this technique here.
Varasano

I have to correct you on this one.

Good strong flour, with the right enzymatic activity, will produce tasteful dough after maturing in the chiller.

It is nowhere near a Natural Leaven dough, but you can obtain good results. For my experience the following is the ranking in terms of flavor:

1-Natural Leaven direct or indirect method
2-Pan a l'ancienne
3-Poolish
4-Biga or old dough (with commercial yeast)
5 Simple direct method with passage in the chiller

Ciao

I think there is lots of potential for experimentation with this.  It would be interesting to isolate out the cold water to see how much it adds to the results.  Reinhart's recipe actually calls for water that is chilled with ice cubes which doesn't seem to shock the yeast to death.  Thanks for the great posts.

Erik

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2006, 12:08:07 PM »
Erik,

Thank you for your post.

I would agree with Marco's assessment as you posted it in your reply. I'd like to think that the 6-7 day cold fermentation that I used with the new method moved up the results from #5 in Marco's list to something a bit higher.

As you may have noted, in one instance I put the IDY into the bowl toward the end of the mixing/kneading process. By that time, the effects of the cold water were diminished by the heat contributed by machine friction. If I were to use warmer water to begin with, no matter at what point in the process I introduce the IDY, I might be inclined to reduce the amount of IDY a bit to compensate, so that the extent and rate of fermentation remain about the same.This is an approach that is sometimes used when one is concerned about the potentially harmful effects of cold water on the yeast.

Peter


Offline David

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 966
  • What’s So Funny ‘Bout Pizza Love and Understanding
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2006, 12:29:57 PM »
Jeffrey Hamelman suggests that yeast manufacturers have adjusted the yeasts to compensate for the "Shock" effect on commercial granular yeast from cold water.
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2006, 12:32:26 PM »
I recently used the new method described in this thread to make the dough for a Little Caesars dough clone, as described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1515.msg33473.html#msg33473 (Reply 73).

The Little Caesars dough was different from the Lehmann doughs I have been experimenting with using the new method in that it was a larger quantity of dough (a bit over 19 ounces) and it had a lower hydration (a bit under 60%). Also, ADY was used instead of IDY, although that was not a material factor insofar as the basic processes were concerned. I simply added the re-hydrated ADY (re-hydrated in a small amount of the formula water, warmed to 105 degrees F) to the bowl toward the end of the mixing/kneading process, along with the rest of the ingredients (corn syrup, salt and oil). What I found with the LC dough is that I almost didn't need the dough hook. I used it a bit, but concluded that the whisk and flat beater alone would have been sufficient. In some respects, the final knead of the dough by hand before the punch and knead step takes the place of the dough hook. Also, I found that by increasing the mixer speed to the 2 speed with the flat beater further obviated the need for the dough hook.

Since I used the dough only after about 27 hours, I did not have a chance to see what the dough handling characteristics would have been after say, 6-7 days, assuming the dough would have held out that long. But, at least the new method was able to handle the 19 ounce dough batch at the roughly 60% hydration level.

Peter


Offline November

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1876
  • Location: North America
  • Come for the food. Stay for the science.
    • Uncle Salmon
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2006, 12:55:00 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for the science acknowledgment.  Normally I would have never ventured onto this thread because I don't have a KitchenAid mixer, and I don't like to knead dough in the mixer I have.  I actually got here because search results for barley turned up the massive Tom Lehmann thread, which included a recent post about this method.  A couple of things I do that I either don't highlight or sometimes even mention in my posts are sifting flour, using an autolyse-like preparation, and cultivating preferments.  The first two, sifting and autolyse, are things I only do occasionally because of the extra time needed.  When I do them though, it makes all the difference in the world.  For those out there who have problems with their kneading turning out right, make sure to use these two methods.  I said autolyse-like because what I do is actually prepare the entire batch of dough (salt, yeast, 100% water and all), mixing it just enough to be uniform in appearance, and then letting it sit on the bench for an hour, at which time I knead it by hand.

The preferment cultivation is something I'm probably going to start doing on a regular basis.  It isn't a coincidence that I've mentioned oat sprouts and powders on this forum and I use oats when cultivating a preferment.  I've always given the type of food I provide the yeast a high priority.  It's that which motivates me to use micro-nutrient and mineral rich sugars like molasses, maple syrup, raw cane sugar, and a few others I haven't mentioned, in my dough.  I've noticed that a lot of people object to adding mono- and di- saccharides (e.g. sucrose, glucose, fructose) in their dough, so I've been working on a preferment I think people of any preference will enjoy, as well as keep the nutrient level high for the Yeastie Boys (tm).  To take a page from the California milk farmer's advertising book, "a happy yeast is a productive yeast."  I'll talk more about this in a starter/culture or preferment thread.

By the way, I'm here, and I think I'll stick around for about 30 days.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2006, 01:48:28 PM »
November,

I was hoping that you would reply to my posts on this subject and crossing my fingers in the meantime that I didn't say something dumb on the technical aspects. I was actually hoping that you could explain why I got such high residual sugar levels in the finished crust without adding any sugar to the original dough and whether the addition of the IDY toward the end of the mixing/kneading process had anything to do with it. I had a few leftover pizza slices the other day and the crust was still sweet and jumped out at me since I wasn't expecting it.

Actually, you were the one who prompted me to do the flour sifting since it was fresh in my mind from one of your recent posts in which you used sifted flour to make the 80%+ hydration preferment. Several others before you on the forum have used sifted flour but I had long since forgotten them and their use was not highlighted except for one member who did wonder whether sifting flour was a good thing to do.

As for the "massive" Lehmann thread, I chose to keep the majority of my Lehmann dough experiments together rather than scattering them in multiple threads throughout the forum. You are new to the forum, but I did put together a "roadmap" of the key Lehmann experiments and dough formulations at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1453.msg13193.html#msg13193, which I update from time to time whenever I do something that I think others might find useful. The Lehmann dough formulation is the one I use as a guinea pig, for better or for worse, for just about everything I do.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 01, 2006, 02:00:54 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline November

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1876
  • Location: North America
  • Come for the food. Stay for the science.
    • Uncle Salmon
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2006, 02:35:04 PM »
Peter,

There are several things that come to mind off the top of my head.  One is that with a higher level of hydration, yeast have less atmospheric oxygen available for cellular respiration.  Yeast, like other fungi and animals, need oxygen.  They get it from either the atmosphere, the air trapped in water, or the carbohydrates.  When they get it from the carbohydrates, more of the sugars (e.g. glucose after enzymatic action) are converted to alcohol.  When they get oxygen from the atmosphere, less of the sugars are converted to alcohol, and more are converted to acetaldehyde and acetic acid to extract more energy out of the sugar.  By hydrating the dough more completely, you force any microscopic air pockets that may form on the surface of the flour particles out of the dough.  As a result, an alcohol sweetness takes precedence.

The second thing that comes to mind is the formation of polyols.  Glucose is what's referred to as a reducing sugar, meaning it contains an aldehyde group.  Reducing sugars, through a biochemical reduction reaction (again for the yeast's extraction of oxygen), can form into polyols, or sugar alcohols.  You know these by names like sorbitol, erythritol, mannitol, etc. used as artificial sweeteners.  These obviously contribute sweetness.

Without doing an in-depth examination, I suspect that you have a little of both occurring, with perhaps more of the first.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2006, 07:56:32 AM »
...what I do is actually prepare the entire batch of dough (salt, yeast, 100% water and all), mixing it just enough to be uniform in appearance, and then letting it sit on the bench for an hour, at which time I knead it by hand.

November,

When you prepare your autolyse-like dough, do you just throw everything into the bowl at one time or do you stage the ingredients and, if the latter, in what sequence?

Peter

Offline November

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1876
  • Location: North America
  • Come for the food. Stay for the science.
    • Uncle Salmon
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2006, 08:34:18 AM »
Peter,

Keep in mind that I'm not talking about my 80% hydrated dough, but my 60-66% hydrated dough.  For 60-66% dough I do the following in sequence:

1) Heat filtered water in the microwave until it reaches 167 F exactly.  (Yes, I've worked out the evaporation rate so that at precisely 110 F I know how much water is in the bowl.)
2) Add micro-nutrient rich sugar, or any other yeast enhancing additive.
3) At 110 F, I add the yeast.
4) At 100 F, I add the oil.  (It's a blend I make from 50% Extra Virgin Olive Oil and 50% Rice Bran Oil)
5) At 98 F (which happens almost instantly by adding 67 F oil), I sift in flour and salt together.
6) I stir to compete integration, dump on work surface (bench), and mold a ball.
7) I cover the dough ball with the mixing bowl turned upside down and let rest for an hour.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21180
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2006, 09:00:21 AM »
November,

Thanks.

Maybe you have already answered this somewhere, but are you using ADY? If so, if you were using IDY, would you activate it the same way?

Peter

Offline November

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1876
  • Location: North America
  • Come for the food. Stay for the science.
    • Uncle Salmon
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2006, 02:33:13 PM »
Peter,

Yes, I use ADY.  I will probably never use anything but ADY for all of my life.  If I were using IDY, I'd activate it the same way except I would start at 104 F.  After all, the reason for blooming ADY is still present for IDY, you just don't need to bloom it as long.  I'm at a loss as to what I would do to compensate for the absence of ADY's higher dead yeast count.  The higher dead yeast count is the primary reason I use ADY.

- red.november

Offline Jack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 404
  • Location: WA
  • Pizza; it's what's for dinner, breakfast........
Re: New KitchenAid Dough Making Method
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2006, 06:41:06 PM »
Reinhart's recipe actually calls for water that is chilled with ice cubes which doesn't seem to shock the yeast to death. 

Erik

I'll second this one.  I was going to be away for a few days and wanted dough to use when I returned, 6 days later.  I used cold water with crushed ice in it.  I let it run in my KA for about 10 minutes before all of the ice melted, so the water temperature, which I did not check, had to be down in the 30's.  I used a pretty stock NY Lehman 61% hydration dough, with sugar.  the resulting dough was excellent.  It was maybe a tad more extensible than ususal, but not much.  Otherwise, it seemed pretty normal to me.  My outside fridge temperature is about 35F.

The yeast was mixed into the flour, which was autolysed, so the possibility that the initial yeast was shocked, but the late added yeast pulled the dough through is quite likely.

Jack 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 06:42:59 PM by Jack »