Author Topic: Grande question  (Read 10696 times)

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Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2006, 02:24:46 PM »
 :-D :-D :-D :-D Oh man that was great Lydia! This is getting out of control. I don't want the mods to kick us in the pants.

Pizzajoe,

I have been to that cash n carry and they don't have the Grande. Did the rep say that the people on the list you gave me need to special order it? Because if it isn't "on hand" I don't see how it's going to be that much cheaper than going to Vern's or PennMac and having it delivered on your doorstep. I mean you found it at WF locally and it was still $6 a lb, so I assume any kind of special order is going to cost more? I will wait to see what you find out. I hate talking on the phone, it's soooooo 90's.


Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2006, 06:36:33 PM »
Hi Dan,

My hat's off to Lydia, she's found
www.netosausage.com
They appear willing to deal Grande even cheaper than WF but we'd need a group buy to get the best price.  Not to steal her thunder, I'll let her fill in the details.

I'm stocked through the holidays now but would love to do a group buy in early Jan...   ;)  If you are interested, let's re-sync after the festivities.
PizzaJoe

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2006, 02:37:47 PM »
I already sent Lydia PMs regarding this. I am good for 5-10# if need be.

Are we going whole milk or part skim? I tried the whole milk from WF last weekend and the pies were quite greasy. Have you tried the part skim? If there's less stretch then forget it. I need to get my hand on some of that Cristoforo sauce she was raving about. I have been using Stanislaus FULL RED fully prepared pizza sauce and it makes for a great sauce.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2006, 03:55:50 PM »
Hey guys

Sorry I'm laggin... the holiday stuff is keeping me busy.

I haven't tried Grande yet, so I don't have an immediate preference. Let me know if you guys agree on the part-skim so I can check on availability and pricing.

He said that he can get the 50/50 blend, but I don't have a price quote on that either.

Does Grande whole milk come in a low-moisture version?

The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2006, 04:05:40 PM »
This is the stuff I'm interested in!

http://www.pennmac.com/items/3241

7#s of whole milk low moisture mozz!   :chef:

The 50/50 is whole milk and part skim.  I don't seem to have a grease problem using the whole milk but I could be talked into the 50/50.   I'd also favor a loaf over preshredded.  :-\
PizzaJoe

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2006, 04:41:52 PM »
You want to be careful with the Grande 50/50 blend. I believe the Grande 50/50 blend, whether diced or shredded, is 50% mozzarella and 50% Provolone. See, for example, http://www.grandecheese.com/pizza_cheese.htm. To get a 50/50 whole milk/part-skim blend, you most likely will have to get a block of each and dice or shred.

I remember that one of our members, Arthur, once ordered the 50/50 Grande blend from PennMac and was disappointed when he discovered (after receiving the cheese) that the blend included Provolone cheese, which was not what he wanted: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,526.msg4850.html#msg4850 (Reply 9)

Peter

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2006, 04:56:19 PM »
Doh!  Right as always Peter!   ;D

Okay, I have a wife with an adversion to provolone.   ???  (Yeah, I know, I know...)  And, she _can_ detect it.  (Ask me how I know...   :-D)  So I'd only be interested in the 7# whole milk mozz loaves if we do a group buy.

PizzaJoe

Offline Lydia

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2006, 06:03:07 PM »

The label on the mozz. at Penn. Mac. looks just like the fresh grated Grande Parmesan at the shop, so it should be the correct Grande.

When Ed wrote the prices down, he scratched over the weight to make a correction, so I could be reading it incorrectly. I'll contact him and get a confirmation on the Grande weight and verify "low-moisture" on the whole milk grande loaves.

I'll give it a day or so , so that we can work out any other questions or concerns before I make contact.

He also carries Escalon and Stansilaus products in #10. Anyone want me to check on a specific tomato product?
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2006, 09:38:40 PM »
I bought the 50/50 and wasn't too impressed with the provolone component. It tended to puddle. Peter is correct, it's 50% whole milk mozz and 50% Provo-nello.

I too would rather have loaves and NOT shredded. I am fine with the whole milk as well Joe. I just wanted to know if the part skim was less greasy yet still had the same stretch.? I doubt that is the case.

Lydia,

If he can get the Stanislaus FULL RED Fully Prepared Pizza Sauce I'll take a case of that too. That is a great tomato base!

Also Lydia, if you want to play with the Provo-nello from grande in the RT clone cheese blend, I just found a place today that sells it locally. You can buy it in small wedges like the regular grande mozz. Since the RT clone only calls for 10% Provolone, a full bag or loaf is just too much of that stuff. At least this will give you a chance to try out the mildness of the taste.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2006, 09:52:05 PM »
Stanislaus FULL RED Fully Prepared Pizza Sauce: CHECK

Quote
Also Lydia, if you want to play with the Provo-nello from grande in the RT clone cheese blend, I just found a place today that sells it locally.


Good to know. I might venture that way if I decide to pursue a St. Louis style pizza though. Would you mind posting the source in the resources thread for our area?

I really got burned out on finding the ideal Provelone. Not too harsh, good stretch, good blending qualities etc.
I'm still trying to follow the leads on the RT cheese. Did you notice I posted a topic on RT cheese?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4296.msg35840.html#msg35840
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 09:54:06 PM by Lydia »
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.


Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2006, 10:19:22 AM »
Hi Lydia,

Re: sauces.  I'm pretty happy with the worst case scenario for me, 6-1's All Purpose Ground Tomatoes from the local Andronico's.  *But*, as you know, I'm always on the look-out for something new to try.   :chef:  So, if Dan's gonna get a case of FULL RED, I'd be happy to take a can or two (or three...) off someone's hands...   :D  Also, I'm interested in trying out any of the Allegro pizza sauces and the Christina's Organic ground tomatoes.  Personally, I prefer the sauces that use plum/roma/Italian style tomoatoes as a base but variety is the spice of life!   ;D
PizzaJoe

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2006, 12:57:47 PM »
Hi All,

Grande's 50/50 blend is half part-skim mozzarella and half provolone (their version is called Provonello). The blend was devised for mid-western pizza markets and some New England markets that heavily blend mozzarella and provolone on all of their pies. Grande blends part skim with provolone because the provolone already has such a high fat content that oil off and burn can be a problem. Those characteristics are diminished with part-skim mozzarella. However, the blend still can have some burning and oil problems depending upon how the pies are prepared. I would avoid using this blend in a high temperature situation--anything over 550-600 degrees or it will surely burn.

Grande's whole milk mozzarella performs beautifully in all applications, even in the highest heat, it still melts great without burning. Also age plays a great roll on how this cheese performs. Some prefer "newer" cheese because it is a bit less salty and is a bit milder in flavor. Others will only use "aged" which is over a month past the date on the loaf or package. I am one of those who prefer to have a bit of age on their product. The cheese takes on a more developed nutty flavor as it ages and along with that a more pronounced flavor of salt. Think of the difference between any fresher cheese and aged--the aged loses moisture and concentrates the flavors and the salt. Since I don't add any salt in my sauce and the other toppings are salty enough, I like the flavor that aged Grande brings to my pizzas.

I understand that it is difficult for consumers to get Grande, let alone control the age of the batch--but that is why some of you report different characteristics from the cheese--it does change as it ages. Some places actually specify a certain number of weeks age on all the Grande they buy. I like at least 6 weeks age--6 to 8 weeks is optimum for me. There should be a batch number and date on each loaf or package.

PS: Part skim should not be aged; use it as soon as possible, or freeze it. Unlike whole milk, it develops mostly a salty flavor and because of the reduced fat, it does not develop a richer flavor like the whole milk version. I also find it tends to dry out faster.

Evelyne :pizza:

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2006, 01:05:59 PM »
Oops, I left out something:

All of the loaf, shredded and diced products are "low moisture", they are all "aged" before release. Grande's fresh mozzarella line is Fior di Latte which is "fresh", non-aged and packed in brine. All block mozzarella--any brand, be it loaf, shredded or diced is low-moisture.

As a cheese "ages" outside of brine it loses moisture. Depending upon how much age, directly reflects how much moisture. Grande's cheeses are meant to perform similarly within a set parameter. However, each pizza maker has their own "thing" I know of some people who like using the cheese 2 weeks beyond its final date because they like the way it tastes and performs. The cheese isn't bad, it is just beyond the window that Grande finds optimal.

Evelyne :pizza:

Offline Lydia

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2006, 02:41:13 PM »
Evelyne

That's great news! Thank you so much for the explanation.  :D


Quote
I like at least 6 weeks age

If I understood correctly, Cheese must be 4 weeks past due date to be considered "aged"
When you said you like 6 weeks age, is this in addition to the 4 weeks?

Do you have any specific information on how aging affects the stretchability?

When a pizza operator chooses to age their own cheese is their some sort of procedure, or is it just simply a matter of holding the cheese longer under normal refrigeration, in it's original packaging?

Is it correct to assume that freezing accelerates the "aging" characteristics due to an increased moisture loss? Or is this an entirely different matter?

Thanks again!

The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2006, 03:29:39 PM »
Hi Lydia,

I believe the Grande Products have a 60 day shelf life, so when I say that I like my cheese aged at least 6 weeks, it is 6 weeks from the initial production date. Some endusers prefer to use the cheese within the first 4 weeks of release because they prefer less age, while others push the envelope and like to use the cheese beyond its expired date. I prefer to use the cheese from 6 weeks up until the expire date. I have used it past the date, but it gets a bit too soupy for me and it develops a pronounced sharpness. Some pizza makers actually prefer that tangy sharpness. I prefer a mellow, nutty rich flavor for my pies.

As for "aging" the cheese, all you have to do is keep it refrigerated and un-opened. Freezing the cheese does indeed remove moisture from the cheese, but not in the same way that aging does, it is more like desiccation of the cheese. The moisture is pulled out in the form of crystallization, which compromises the the flavor and texture of the cheese. You will note that the cheese does not have all of the flavor, or the melting capacities it had before it was frozen. Still, Grande is the best cheese to freeze because of all that butterfat in their cheese, actually holds up better than others once frozen. Don't ask Grande about freezing because they will tell you--never. But never is a very long time, and for home purposes, their cheese freezes quite well. Just don't tell them I told you that  >:D

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2006, 03:41:21 PM »
In August I did some research on the Grande cheese (50/50) expiration dates and the matter of freezing, which I discussed with a customer service rep when I called Grande. The thread in which these matters are covered is this one: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3429.msg29127.html#msg29127.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 03:43:24 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline csacks

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2006, 10:48:51 AM »
I recently purchased some Grande whole milk mozz from Vern.  The tase is good, but I am looking for a cheese with a slightly different texture in my mouth.  I found the whole milk to be a little creamy.  Do you think I would be happier with part skim?  CraiG

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2006, 01:34:05 PM »
Thanks for the clarification Evelyne. I checked the 50/50 blend that I have and it is indeed part-skim.

Joe, We can split a case or go 3 way with Lydia on the sauce if she likes. I usually get about (4) 1 quart freezer bags out of 1 #10 can. I freeze it on the third day after making it, and each bag is good for about 2 pies right out of the freezer. This depends on the amount of sauce you like on your pie though.

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2006, 05:39:38 PM »
Joe, We can split a case or go 3 way with Lydia on the sauce if she likes. I usually get about (4) 1 quart freezer bags out of 1 #10 can. I freeze it on the third day after making it, and each bag is good for about 2 pies right out of the freezer. This depends on the amount of sauce you like on your pie though.

Hey Dan, great!  I'm up for a split however it works out!  Thanks!   ;D
PizzaJoe

Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: Grande question
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2006, 11:22:03 PM »
Shoot - I pay $2.50 a pound for my Grande Mozzarella and Provolone blocks. $4-$6/lb is robbery

I too have been searching for that lovely afterchew. I have settled on a Mozz + Prov blend, but
not Grande Mozz. Their Prov is banging, but the Mozz is more creamy than stretchy and chewy

I alternate between Wegmans, Boarshead, and Maggio Mozz


 

pizzapan