mystery flavor

[DomeZone]

I've read the posts and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, so will ask it here. There is a "flavor" to a NY pie
that I canot find on any other. Just a plain ol' cheese slice, that when you bite into it it's there. It's not tomatoe, garlic,
basiel, fennal, onion, it's not a cheese blend( use only 100% mozz)it's more of a after taste then anything. Does anyone
know what I'm talking about ? I don't LOL but I sure wish I did. My next test is to let the cheese age longer then normal
cuz one site said as whole mozz ages it takes on more flavor. anybody's chain pizza just doesn't have it. So any NY'rs
who have moved and have tried others and found that "this" flavor isn't in anyother pies? Please help me I'm going
crazy !!!!

thanks  Mike

ps posted this in the introduce site, that may of been the wrong place,sorry

[mivler]

Mike,

Welcome. Can you tell me what recipe you are using when you have tried to reproduce this? It is amazing to me how many different things can influence the flavor of the final pizza (even using the same exact ingredients.)

Michael

[Bill/SFNM]

I think the crust of a good NYC slice has a very nice fragrance and flavor. Is it possible it is the dough? If you just take a bite of the edge with no cheese or sauce, does it have the mystery flavor?

Bill/SFNM

[Arthur]

Having eaten millions of NY slices in my life - ok, not millions, but it seemed like it, I might be able to help.

There are a few things about NY street slices that make it unique in taste:

- cheese - many use Grande mozz; lots of places have moved away from it since the price is too high for most shops.  The grande cheese and equivalents have a great taste that is not like other cheese.   Get some from pennmac and see if thats it.
- even though you say it's the cheese, I tend to think it's the dough - which usually has sugar added. 

[Harv]

I'm guessing it's the pizza makers touching the handles on the subway.   To test my theory, buy a pizza in Jersey, drive into the city, get on the subway, take a bite of pizza, and quickly lick  the nearest handle.  I believe you'll find that mystery flavor. 

[Finnegans Wake]

I'm guessing it's the pizza makers touching the handles on the subway.   To test my theory, buy a pizza in Jersey, drive into the city, get on the subway, take a bite of pizza, and quickly lick  the nearest handle.  I believe you'll find that mystery flavor. 

Don't they also scratch their balls a lot?

[Harv]

I think I can speak for everyone in saying that you are on your own with that experiment.

[DomeZone]

I hit reply and got this box to fill in, hope I'm answering the right way.
Michael: I'm using the dough and sauce recipe from enclopizza for his neo /NY style.
I really don't think it's a dough flavor that I'm looking for. now hang with me here for a moment,
it sort of reminds me of what Cambell's tomatoe soup smells like, yeah I tried it,,nope!!! way too sweet and the flavor
wasn't there. At this  time I'm using Polly O mozz so far I hav'n't found the grande.
forgive me if i step on toes here, but I tend to think that  it must be a common item, since I would think a pizzareia
owner watching his bottom line, would be using normal, common items, as to keep the cost down.
Being in Colorado, I don't have a subway but I can grab the bull by the horns and give that a try, lol
I really apreciate the replys, and hope to be able to contribute some day. I having been baking Sourdough breads
for 20 years now, but just now taken an interest in pizza building(always been interested in eating it!!)

Keep your pie in the sky n off the floor !

Mike

[mivler]

Well, I'd not a pro. About a year or so ago I was just learning how to make great pizza. I skimmed the dough recipe because I think you should first focus on the dough(that is probably the biggest factor). There are tons of sauce recipes on this site. You can buy a can of crushed tomatoes and use it straight and it will be better than most canned sauces.

 By the way I usually make New York style so my comments are along those lines. Here are my thoughts. Again I looked it over quickly and I am definitely not a pro.

I am interested in the sponge method referenced:

“With the sponge method—which is a 2-stage process—the water, yeast, and approximately 60 percent of the flour are mixed together to form a thick batter or slack dough (called a sponge or pre-ferment). It’s allowed to ferment for 3 to 4 hours until doubled in volume.”


Did you try this?

I usually do a rest period of 20 minutes and then slowly add the balance of the flour while the mixer is at the lowest setting. (5 minutes). After all the flour is incorporated I turn it up to 2 or 3 and let it mix another 5 minutes. Then a 15 minute rest and a 2 minute hand knead.

There is too much yeast in the recipe. Try ¼ to ½ ts. (especially if you are using warm water)

Did you do a cold rise? (you should)
If you are going to do a cold rise, you would not want to use warm water. Most people on this site look for a finished dough temperature of 80-85 degrees. Therefore you would start with water at room temperature (depending on the room temperature).

I highly suggest a cold rise. As soon as you shape the balls I would pop them in Tupperware and into the fridge for 2-3 days. (lightly oiled)

“Dough for sheeting may also benefit from a gluten-relaxing dough conditioner (ex., L-cysteine) which makes dough more extensible.”

I don’t think this applies for home cooks but I’m curious if anyone knows about or uses a gluten-relaxing dough conditioner.

Once the balls come out of the fridge let them sit at room temperature for at least an hour or two before shaping them.

Hopefully this was helpful.

Michael

Edit:
I am not recommending that you buy any crushed tomatoes and put them straight on the pizza. I was just saying that there are many great recipes out there. Some people do use just canned tomatoes, but it depends on the brand and your personal preference.