Conveyor Ovens

[toadietoad]

My brother and I are looking into ovens for our business plan and realize the conveyor ovens only produce 16 pizza an hour. I work with deck ovens at one of the best pizza places in town so I can't judge how many pizzas I need for a start-up shop.  We both seem to think that its a small amount. Any info on conveyors would help. Is this oven for 4000 enough? Should we buy a better,faster oven? It just seems like a small number to us.
thanks

[November]

16 large pizzas an hour is about $1 million in gross annual earnings.  I think a "start-up" by definition would do well to gross than much a year.  How many employees?  What's the square footage of the kitchen?

[OZZIEPIE]

agree with november..I see alot of people in the business go buy the best of everything getting themselves in big dept then flop,dont do it -start small(oven)see how you business goes/grows then as it does upgrade and add on..research your products and know that you can buy them in a day have electrician and gas men no. that you know they will show and go from there...

[chiguy]

 Hi OZZIEPIE,
 I noticed in another post you mention that you will be trying to run a high volume shop. I cannot imagine that 16 pizzas per hour will get the job done. I agree with not breaking the budget for equipment but you will need much more capacity than that.
 What about the refurbished/used equipment market. 
 CORRECTION TO OZZIE AS I IMPLIED THIS WAS HIS ORIGINAL QUESTION, WHICH IT WAS NOT, MY BAD.
                                                                                               Chiguy

[OZZIEPIE]

for me personally I am already  prepared with 2 electric double door ovens and looking into a conveyor-if I have my way it will be a gas table carasell oven ,gas IMO is the only way too go..I used too only run electric in my old place..quartley bill for that takes a big chunk out of your business..would love too have gas brick..as IMO brick is legit :chef:so i was commenting on a first business buyers budget..not knowing his expertise..playing it safe for the first 6 months is not a bad thing..so whatever you choose IMO make sure its  gas..as for used equipment..keep an eye out for shops going bust and hospitality auctions..we have them here and i do go too some and pick up some crazy bargains..but also comes down too space..do you have storage space for equipment?watch out at auctions..people hide stuff everywhere and cut power cables so you cant test it...might be a person who wants it and does it so the next guy cant test it,making him leave it..if you see a auction come up make sure too go when it opens so you can go discover the goods before some bastard comes along...cheers OZ.

[chiguy]

Hi OZZIEPIE,
 I noticed in another post you mention that you will be trying to run a high volume shop. I cannot imagine that 16 pizzas per hour will get the job done. I agree with not breaking the budget for equipment but you will need much more capacity than that.
 What about the refurbished/used equipment market. 

CORRECTION TO OZZIE AS I IMPLIED THAT THIS WAS HIS ORIGINAL QUESTION WHICH IT WAS NOT, MY MISTAKE.               
                                                Chiguy

[clown]

16 pizzas per hour is not enough at all.  I have 2 ovens that can do 96 pizzas per hour each and on friday there is a line waiting to go in.  Starting out small would be a huge pitfall.

[pizza king]

Where is your shop?

[November]

16 pizzas per hour is not enough at all.  I have 2 ovens that can do 96 pizzas per hour each and on friday there is a line waiting to go in.  Starting out small would be a huge pitfall.

It depends on the number of employees and square footage for prep tables.  Clown, how many employees and prep tables do you have?  At a rate of 1 complete pizza made every 19 seconds, you either have Superman working for you, or a horde of minions in an assembly line.  It's common to find smaller Little Caesar's franchises with only a single 16 pizza/hour oven.  It takes two people to properly staff one prep table and one 16 pizza/hour oven running at full speed and capacity.  If you're suggesting that one start out with the expectation of beating a national chain restaurant, that's pretty bold.

- red.november

EDIT:

Clown,

I'm a little confused by what you said in another thread.  You said, "my 1st one does 500,000 a year" referring to your first restaurant.  Is that net or gross?  If that's net, congratulations, and I wonder what you gross.  If that's gross, that means if you sold nothing but pizzas (i.e. no drinks, side orders, etc) for $10 each, and were open for business 25 days a month on average, you would be making approximately 167 pizzas a day.  Do you get all your orders for the day in one hour?

[clown]

It depends on the number of employees and square footage for prep tables.  Clown, how many employees and prep tables do you have?  At a rate of 1 complete pizza made every 19 seconds, you either have Superman working for you, or a horde of minions in an assembly line.  It's common to find smaller Little Caesar's franchises with only a single 16 pizza/hour oven.  It takes two people to properly staff one prep table and one 16 pizza/hour oven running at full speed and capacity.  If you're suggesting that one start out with the expectation of beating a national chain restaurant, that's pretty bold.

- red.november

EDIT:

Clown,

I'm a little confused by what you said in another thread.  You said, "my 1st one does 500,000 a year" referring to your first restaurant.  Is that net or gross?  If that's net, congratulations, and I wonder what you gross.  If that's gross, that means if you sold nothing but pizzas (i.e. no drinks, side orders, etc) for $10 each, and were open for business 25 days a month on average, you would be making approximately 167 pizzas a day.  Do you get all your orders for the day in one hour?

wow I havent been on in a while but I will still answer.  I was talking about net.  Generally speaking within the day 75% of my business will come from 2 hours.  It is not uncommon at times to sell over 200 pizzas within a 4-5 hour period.  I have 9 employees working on a Friday with 2 prep tables (1 pizza line and 1 sub/salad line)  I can fairly easily pump out a pizza and get it into the oven within 19 seconds depending on what toppings are on it.  I have all pizzas stretched and sauced and cheesed prior to the rush.

[clown]

If you're suggesting that one start out with the expectation of beating a national chain restaurant, that's pretty bold.

Just to comment on this.  I think a major downfall of many operators is starting into this business with a lack of knowledge and with the mindset " I will just get bigger and upgrade as time goes on"  It's totally reasonable to be able to compete with big name chains.  You want to beat them then act like them.  Emulate how they operate.  They know how to make money.

[KingPinAlley]

Clown, are you a buffet?  I can see 200 pizza's a day on a good, popular buffet.  A mom and pop shop I can't see.... that's big numbers.  You've got to have a niche to be doing those numbers, especially on 2 ovens.... I don't think my people could fold 200 boxes a day LOL ... What's your gig?  I'd love to emulate it!!

let us know!!

[Y-TOWN]

Here is a web address for a pizza parlor in Youngstown, Ohio - 

This statement is on this operators four or five page write-up, including photo's of a large bank of ovens --------"A typically busy day sees the process employed on 30 batches, or 1,500 pounds of flour"----------------.

I had many of his pies - about as good as it gets

Here is the address for the place - it's worth a look if you like big numbers from a single site operation. The operator claim 1.8 million gross and as many as 2000 pies daily.

http://www.wedgewoodpizza.com/manna.htm

[ratana]

This may be off subject, but it is a question with regard to conveyor ovens.  I am possibly interested in getting into the business in a few years.  and I want to know, if there is a focus on high quality pizza, can a conveyor oven deliver the same quality, taste, etc as a gas deck oven?  I am from NY and 100% of the places that I had frequented and respect do not use conveyor ovens (will not get into a coal/wood oven discussion though).  But I find it common outside of NY where pizza is more of a commodity than a food, if that makes sense.  From what I understand, almost all chains use conveyor ovens as well.  But do these take away from the flavor of the pizza at all?  IE, if you took the same pie and cooked it in both, would there be a big difference?  Lets say a pie that you would want to cook at 600 degrees for example?

thanks --

[Pete-zza]

ratana,

This is a subject where you are unlikely to find unanimity of opinion. You will see this if you read this thread at the PMQ Think Tank: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?t=1368&highlight=conveyor. I suggest also that you listen to the Jan. 30, 2007 Tom Lehmann audio clip, at http://www.pizzaradio.com/, where Tom discusses the topic also.

Some operators have found the Roto-Flex ovens to be a good compromise between the conveyor ovens and deck ovens, with aspects of both types.

Peter

[Finelli pizza]

IMHO deck ovens are the best for thin crust pies. I've used Blodgetts & Bakers Pride & now Montagues.  Modern Blodgett ovens use corderite decks,previously they used Rokite decks, but it had asbestos in it. Old Bakers Prides had "Boulanger" tiles which are great for their heat retention & porosity. These tiles are no longer made by Bakers Pride. Now come Montague Legend pizza ovens. They can be ordered with the classic "boulanger"  tiles  as an option ($2000) extra. For baking right on the hearth, there is no better bake. The Montagues are lined all sides, top & bottom with fire brick. They are capable of producing 160,000 BTU's each deck. Consistant temps of 650 are possible without any noticeable recovery issues. Each deck can accomodate 6 18" pies . For the space they take up stacked, they are the workhorses of the industry. No conveyor oven can produce a bake even close to this. Don't even consider an electric oven, they will put you out of business!

[bodegahwy]

16 pies an hour will not cover any kind of rush.  The good news..?  Get a stack.  Put a second or even a third oven on the plan.  we max out (per POS system reports) at about 100 pies an hour (our overs will handle it) but you do need to ber ready for more than 16.  I did not notice what kind of oven you are talking about, but I am guessing it is something like the Lincoln impinger which is stackable. 

[ehanner]

Rkos, that is a very interesting story about Wedge Wood Pizza. His success goes back to selling a good product at a reasonable product allows for higher volume. Still, I'm surprised at the low prices!