Author Topic: No Knead Dough  (Read 31167 times)

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Offline jimd

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No Knead Dough
« on: November 08, 2006, 02:03:06 PM »
Today's New York Times has an article about a baker in New York (the fellow owns the Sullivan Street Bakery, which I believe produces very good bread). He uses a method that appears to involve virtually no kneading of the dough, just a very slow rise with little yeast and a wet dough. The wetness of the dough is what is described as allowing the dough to develop  its gluten without kneading. Here is a link to the article for those interested:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/08mini.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

You will note that there must be a typo in the text, as a very wet dough is described as 42% hydration. There is also a video on the page that is linked, although I have not been able to have it play properly.

This method seems to be the ultimate "less is more" approach. I know that the "stretch and fold" technique has been discussed here in connection with using less aggressive kneading, and this seems to go much further. It may also not translate well to preparing pizza dough, but may be worth a try.

In the past, I have tried using less kneading and incorporating several "stretch and folds" in making pizza dough, and must say that, especially when using Caputo flour, the dough seems to benefit most from thorough kneading of at least 15 minutes, and sometimes more like 30.

Hope you enjoy the link, as it at least food for thought.

Jim


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2006, 03:28:37 PM »

You will note that there must be a typo in the text, as a very wet dough is described as 42% hydration. There is also a video on the page that is linked, although I have not been able to have it play properly.


Not a typo. There is a difference between the hydration we talk about on this forum which is the ratio of water to flour (bakers% by weight). The number in the article is the proportion of water in the mixed dough (the article implies by weight).

Bill/SFNM
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 03:31:21 PM by Bill/SFNM »

Offline dmun

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2006, 07:37:57 AM »
Hey, it works. I was skeptical about the AP flour, but it turned out great even though the dough was a mess when it went into the hot pot. Clearly I need work on handling high-hydration dough: no way I could have formed this mess into a pizza skin. The simple steam trap creates a great crust, and 500f was, if anything, too hot.

Offline Fio

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2006, 09:02:43 AM »
Hey, it works. I was skeptical about the AP flour, but it turned out great even though the dough was a mess when it went into the hot pot. Clearly I need work on handling high-hydration dough: no way I could have formed this mess into a pizza skin. The simple steam trap creates a great crust, and 500f was, if anything, too hot.

So, are you trying to tell us that you can bake, as well as make a geodesic dome oven? :chef:

So I suppose the next thing you'll tell us is that you build clocks from scratch?

Yeah, right!  >:D
Since joining this forum, I've begun using words like "autolyze" and have become anal about baker's percents.  My dough is forever changed.

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2006, 03:35:03 PM »
Thanks a ton for this article/video of this technique. I was going to jump into making Ciabatta bread as it uses very very wet dough.. but this is so much easier. I can't wait to try it as well... Nice pics of the bread too... thanks again for sharing!!! :D

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2006, 01:22:17 PM »
heres my attempt,  looks goo smells good, crackling out of the crock pot liner i used.  KA bread w/semolina as the release agent.  Ill post some crumb pics ater cooling, i suspect the airy structure as bread is light. I made 2 doughs last night , my 10 year he did most of it.  Thinking of making a siciiain (no oil in dough though) style out of the next dough during the game.  check these pics out! -marc

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2006, 08:57:07 AM »
this bread was beyond good.  I will probably give up on making bread in any other manner from here forward.  Why mess with a good thing.  Made a sicilian too, which was quite good, but next time would reduce the amount of dough used and let it rise in the pan on oil.  Anyone care to guess how much starter I should use to be equivilent to a .25 teaspoon as this recipie calls for?  -marc

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2006, 01:14:56 PM »
Would someone be kind enough to post the no-knead dough recipe in cups, teaspoons, etc. for those of us not using bakers percentages ?

I'd like to try it, but only understand the rookie ways of dough prep :-[

Thanks in advance

Offline dmun

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2006, 01:26:14 PM »
Would someone be kind enough to post the no-knead dough recipe in cups, teaspoons, etc. for those of us not using bakers percentages ?

I'd like to try it, but only understand the rookie ways of dough prep :-[

Thanks in advance

Easy. Mix 3 cups AP flour, 1/4 teaspon instant yeast, 1 1/4 teaspoons salt, briefly. Stir in 1 1/2 cups water, until just combined. Cover bowl, leave at room temperature for 18 hours. Turn out onto floured surface,  spread out, fold twice, cover, wait two more hours. Preheat oven to 475 f. for 30 minutes with covered dutch oven inside. Dump wet dough into hot dutch oven, cook covered for 30 minutes, 10 more uncovered. Cool. Eat.

Offline mmarston

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2006, 01:44:48 PM »
Note that you need a 6-8 qt Dutch oven or similar heavy covered pot.
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry


Offline jimd

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2006, 02:01:46 PM »
In terms of using a dutch oven, cloche or similar item, I did not have any of these items but was dying to try the recipe over the weekend. I used an aluminum pot that is meant for the stove, and it was a mistake. It gave off a metallic odor as it heated up in the oven, and the bread retained some of this metallic flavor. A really heavy cast iron pot or dutch oven is a much better bet. My pot also had handles made of plastic, and they near-melted in the oven (yes, I know, I should have worried about this before hand).

Jim

Offline mmarston

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2006, 02:08:59 PM »
If you're looking to buy an enameled cast iron dutch oven try the Lodge brand. The're much cheaper than the fancy French ones and the favorite of Fine Cooking Magazine. I found one on Amazon for $85!!
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Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2006, 03:44:17 PM »
I like the suggestion in this thead to use a crock pot ceramic insert from a crock pot and use that as your cooking vessel... (who does'nt own one of these??)...It can withstand the heat and a smaller diameter I would think would mean a higher rise in the final bread..(see the great pictures above)...

Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 11:14:21 PM »
this is a fantastic concept - I am sold. Handling the wet dough is a challenge, but I may work on lowering the
percent a bit to get the texture of the bread just so. How are all of you handling it? I let it rise in a plastic
bowl on the counter for 18 hours - then folded it over twice and shaped it (on a silicone baking mat) 3 hours
later it rose again and was huge - I wrestled the oversized blob into the hot pot and baked for 30 min. @ 475

We devoured the hot loaf with peppered salame, hot soppresata and provolone - DELICIOUS

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2006, 03:15:07 PM »
I think that by keeping the hydration high and a very wet dough lends itself to a wonderfully light and moist bread. In order to make it more managable to handle I'm going to try either cutting the recipe down  or in half to make a size good for a dinner where its all eaten at once... (just my wife and I)... or make the standard recipe but cut the dough into smaller pieces before shaping and bake several smaller loafs... freeze what you don't eat. Trying to plop a large wet piece of dough into a very hot pot is very awkward.

Offline REMOISE

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2006, 04:06:06 PM »
I tried making the bread but first time the bread came out great and with a wonderful crust but the interior did not have big holes that i am aspiring for although it tasted great.second time it really looked bad but the interior had great big holes.i used bread flour as I  am skeptical using ap flour.Can anyone help me solve my problem.The first batch was wet dough and the second even wetter and really almost impossible to throw in the pot.I used " cup of bread flour 1 1/4 teaspoon salt 1/4 teaspoon yeast. How can I achieve this great big holes? I am trying with another batch right now and this time ap flour but it really looks wet while it is fermenting.Also when I shape and fold it  how long till I bake it Just 2 hours or could I go longer?
Thanks,
Remoise

Offline dmun

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2006, 09:59:04 PM »
How can I achieve this great big holes? I am trying with another batch right now and this time ap flour but it really looks wet while it is fermenting.
I think the recipe is designed to work with all purpose flour. Try that first before you make changes. I didn't think AP flour could get crumb and crust like that, but it works.

Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2006, 11:02:21 PM »
I am in love with this concept and will be experimenting every other day with it. I am going to experiment
with different sized and shaped containers. I made a 77 percent highly kneaded dough the other day in teflon
cupcake pans they were fantastic. Light crispy exterior, moist large voids inside, but this no knead dough easily
rivaled that dough with much less work. I see custom fired pottery bread pans in my future.

Offline Lydia

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2006, 03:38:25 AM »
Wow! I'm surprize at the response to no-knead doughs.

I just got my hands on Caputo Blue and the first recipe I tried was based on a Cibatta style using the old-school no-knead technique. I was very happy with the results. But I should mention that I am not aware of Caputos full potential. It might benefit from making some changes mentioned in the article.

This is what I did. It's going to be brief.

450g Caputo Blue
150g Semolina
475g warm water 86F
6 g IDY (2 1/4 tsp)
10 g fine popcorn salt

Combine all ingredients with paddle attachment
Rest 10 min.
Change to dough hook (easily cleans from paddle) Gluten development was quite impressive at this stage).
Speed 3 for 15 minutes.
Rest 1 1/2 hours, covered.
Divide into 2 dough balls One at 532 g  the other at 535g
rest 45 min.
dough stretches with very little resistence but not elastic enough to toss.

Curently my oven only reaches a bit above 500F so it took about 15 minutes.
I plan on messing with my oven calibration to fix it.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline tonymark

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Re: No Knead Dough
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2006, 05:51:31 PM »
Didn't have time to read the original article and now it is in the archives.  I could track down a printed paper.  Does anyone know if it is in there?  Can someone please post, in detail, the original technique with baker % or weights?  I would appreciated very much.

Thanks,
TM
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