Author Topic: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help  (Read 10385 times)

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Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2006, 04:14:33 PM »
Hrm..my kitchen is at abuot 70 deg. right now, or so. The dough feels room temp, or slightly below (i'll measure next time), and i've been putting cheese and sauce from the fridge on, trying to slow down the cheese browning.


Offline November

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2006, 04:23:17 PM »
Jason,

Part of the reason I've taken this line of thinking is because I've been down this road with my pizzas as I experiment with various ingredients.  I'm always conscious of acidity because there are certain chemicals that form in the presence of a lower pH that contribute to the flavor of the crust.  Diacetyl for instance is produced more abundantly by yeast in an environment with a pH of 4.6 or lower.  My oven has baked pizzas the same way for many many years, 30 minute preheat and bake at 525 F.  The only times I get a white crust is when the ingredients are unusual or in unusual condition.

- red.november

Offline November

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2006, 04:27:00 PM »
Putting cold sauce on the dough only saps the heat from the dough.  Use room temperature sauce and stick with the cold cheese.  How long do you let the dough sit at room temperature?

Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2006, 04:35:50 PM »
Red: dough sat at room temp for about 2 hours.

Offline November

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2006, 04:52:22 PM »
Red: dough sat at room temp for about 2 hours.

Yep.  Pretty sure it's not a temperature problem.  A 30 F difference between the dough and cheese should give it a pretty good head start.  Try using fresh off the shelf flour, as well as the other recommendations.  If you use a wash (or oil) and you still don't get browning than you know it's something wrong with your oven, but that's highly improbable based on your presented evidence.

- red.november

Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2006, 05:17:32 PM »
Thanks Red. I'm sure the oven temp isn't the problem. I've measured the temp with 2 dial thermos and 1 infrared. It is something in the dough, or the cheese i use.

Next batch will use either sugar, honey or barley malt, and next one after that spring water.

thanks for the help everyone. Won't be able to make pizza until after thanksgiving week probably.

any other ideas welcome.

jason

Online Pete-zza

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2006, 05:23:41 PM »
Jason,

Which flour are you using?

Please let us know how everything turns out.

Peter

Offline chiguy

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2006, 09:08:26 PM »
 JasonMolinari,
 My take on the lack of crust browing is that baking 5-7minutes at 500F is way too short of time to  achieve proper browning/crust coloration. I would tend to think 10 minutes would produce better results.
 As far as the cheese browning too soon this is an issue in of its own. Have you tried different cheese other than low-moisture part skim? The cheese moisture ingrediants and type as well as quality can have an affect on browning. Here is a ENCYCLOPIZZA link to #9 cheese types and the browning characteristics,  particularly read the Part-skim/wholemilk mozzarella section.
http://www.correllconcepts.com/index.htm             Chiguy

EDIT (2/1/2013): For a link to the Correll cheese material, see http://web.archive.org/web/20040606230957/http://correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/09_Cheese/09_cheese.htm
 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 01:23:26 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2006, 12:09:59 AM »
Chiguy, thanks for the info. I'm wondering b/c Peter is able to get brown crusts, and as far as i know he bakes for about 7-8 minutes..today i baked for 7 and it was still basically white.

Pete: i'll try using my KASL, and potentially some KA bread flour

Offline mivler

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2006, 08:19:16 PM »
jasonmolinari,

A picture would be very telling. Can you post some pictures of your oven configuration and pizza?

Thanks,

Michael


Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2006, 08:49:41 PM »
mivler, i'll take some next time i bake a pizza.

Offline OZZIEPIE

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2006, 02:31:11 AM »
make sure oven temp.is correct dough is at room temp.and there shouldnt be a problem..no matter how crap your dough recipe is..unless its not a dough recipe :chef:
ITS ALL ABOUT THE FLAVOUR GUYS

Offline eric22

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2006, 05:10:26 PM »
WE ARE USING HOME OVENS!  :o

These are not pizza ovens!

I cook mine on the lower rack.  Don't burn the bottom!

Then I movie the pizza to a pan near the broiler and brown the cheese and crust.

Offline raji

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2006, 06:35:12 PM »
I dont' make NY Style pies too often, but I made one just the other day and had the *exact* same problem.  I've attached a pic of the pie.  Is this similar in appearance?

I used Pete-Zza's formulation of the Canadave NY Style recipe and baked at 550 in an gas home oven.  I'm about to bake another pie from this batch of dough.  This time I'll try 650 and see how it goes.

The whiteness usually isn't a problem because I use the cleaning cycle to cook my pies.  ;D


Offline raji

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2006, 07:18:11 PM »
Just baked the last ball from the same batch as above.  This time around I baked at about 670F.  What an amazing difference.  See for yourself:


Offline chiguy

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2006, 07:47:25 PM »
 Raji,
 I believe you experienced an overly fermented dough that had very little residual sugars left upon baking. Although dough temperature was not mentioned in canadaves original recipe the finished dough temperature is very important. A finished dough temperature of 72-84F is recommended for retarded doughs with a temperature in the lower range for this particular recipe. Especially when holding dough for longer periods of time in the cooler(48-72hrs). Holding dough for 4,5 and 6 days are not recommended with commercial yeast and without some serious careful planning.
 Also the recommended yeast % amounts for a retarded dough are 0.25-0.75 with canadaves being on the high end at (0.78%). Without careful planning it is possible to exceed many of these recommendations and result in a subpar pizza.
 I am not telling you to stop trying the canadave recipe, just to be very aware of the times and temperatures involved with retarded dough.   Chiguy
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 10:52:10 PM by chiguy »

Offline grovemonkey

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2006, 07:23:42 PM »
Interesting, your first pizza photo looks like my normal pizzas, though mine are a little browner.  My temps are around 250 C and i get very little browning.  The second photo looks a lot different, did it taste any different? 

Time to upgrade my convection oven.. :)  I see there is a 350C model out.. can't hurt.

Nice photos. 

Offline raji

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2006, 11:45:49 PM »
They didn't taste that different, but the texture of the rim on the outside was noticeably better on the second one.


Offline lilbuddypizza

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2006, 02:36:25 AM »
After I roll out the dough, BUT before I put it on a peel, I spray PAM or another aerosol oil around the perimeter. That being said, my crusts turn brown even if I don't do that, but I figured it might be worth a shot.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: My pizza crust is WHITE. No browning at all. Help
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2006, 12:57:13 PM »
PAM!!! YIKERS!! Use some garlic butter with a brush or something....  ::)

Here's a little secret... Pineapple juice. Rub some of that on your crust, you won't be disappointed!

As for the white pizza, seems like it isn't cooking long enough, but I don't want to get red all up in a tizzy. Your knowledge of dough is far superior to mine.