Author Topic: Wood burning oven  (Read 9654 times)

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Offline Arthur

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Wood burning oven
« on: June 07, 2004, 10:36:54 AM »
I've now started searching the web for a home wood burning oven.  I've restled with putting one of those ovens in my kitchen - which I'm sure would be very cool, but also very expensive.   I've also looked into building my own http://www.ovencrafters.net/  although that seems a little out of my league and will take up 6ft by 6ft in my backyard...and I've looked into "portable" smaller ovens, but can't really find one that looks right.

Has anyone either built their own wood burning oven or bought something small that they are happy with?  What are your positive/negative experiences?


Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 10:14:03 AM »
I just saw an add in a mag that I get for home harths. I will get the name and internet site and post it here later for everyone to check out.
Pizzaholic

Offline Randy

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2004, 01:19:34 PM »
I got a couple of bags of hardwood charcoal to run a pizza oven test maybe in the next week or so.

Randy

Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2004, 09:25:47 AM »
Arthur
This is the company
Mugnaini
They have a website
www.mugnaini.com
1-888-887-7206
Beautiful looking ad with 4 different styles

I have a subscription to Saveur
www.saveur.com
It is a great magazine, esp for foodies like most of us here. I really cannot emphasis how much I have gleened from its pages!
June/July 2004 just came and it has a feature on BBQ
We have gotten more out of this magazine in the last 4 or 5 years than you can imagine. The wife and I love to experiment with all the different recipes from all different regions. Its great cause we try to outdo each other in our recipe selection and preparation.
But we both benifit from the friendly competition, and meals are far from humdrum
Pizzaholic

Offline Arthur

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2004, 11:02:47 AM »
Thanks!

I'm in heaven:

http://www.mugnaini.com/ovens/ovens_piccolo.html

the smallest is $2750, plus you need to spend $1500 for AL FRESCO ASSEMBLY KIT

hmmm 4K for a plasma tv or a pizza oven...easy choice.

Has anyone ever tried something like this?    


Offline Randy

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2004, 11:09:38 AM »
I was thinking mine would cost under $50. Uhmmm?
 ;D
Randy

Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2004, 12:40:37 PM »
Randy
If you need a southern distributor let me know.
We could make a kill'n  :o :o
Pizzaholic

Offline Randy

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2004, 01:40:53 PM »
I hope to build it in the next few weeks.  May not work, but I think it will.

Randy

Offline Arthur

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2004, 03:36:08 PM »
Here's one I found:

http://www.doughproovens.com/Homeoven.shtml

about $3000 with shipping.

I doubt I'll buy it until I can try it!


Charlie

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2004, 08:14:30 AM »
Try this site if you're looking to build your own... http://www.traditionaloven.com/

Offline Pierre

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Re:Wood burning oven
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2004, 03:01:05 PM »
Charlie, that's a nice site. Lot's of tutorials for making outdoor ovens. Lot's of inspiring Photos there... Thanks.


Pierre

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2005, 06:20:31 AM »
Arthur,

I know that your posting was from last summer, but maybe you haven't built your oven yet. We just posted free plans to build a round Italian brick oven. I have built the rectangular brick "bread oven" in the past, and I really like the round Italian oven much better. I think that's why there are so many of them in Italy -- where all the pizza ovens have the round, spherical dome shaped design.

The oven is very buildable, and people have already build the first ones in the states.

The plans are on http://www.fornobravo.com. Click on the Pompeii Oven link. The plans are free and well-documented, and there are lots of photos. There is also a user group on Yahoo! (also free!).

FB

Offline Arthur

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2005, 03:36:23 PM »
Thank you.  I have not built my oven yet - probably for 1 main reason.  I'm afraid of the size of the oven in my backyard.  I don't have a large backyard and want the smallest possible oven allowing me to still make an 18" or so pizza.

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2005, 03:45:28 PM »
You can do that with a 30" oven. You really can't go any smaller, because there isn't room for the fire and the pizza. The opening also becomes too big relative to the volume of the oven, so the smaller oven will not hold heat. I experimented by building a 26" round oven, and I would not recommend it. Don't forget you need a live fire in the oven when you are cooking pizza.

Also, go Italian and do a couple of 12" pizzas, one a time -- they cook in three minutes.

The foot print for a 30" oven is about 46" square. That gives you a 30" floor, 8" for the walls (4" each side), and 8" for insulation and finish stucco.

See if you can fit that in.

FB

Offline Steve

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2005, 05:16:19 PM »
Excellent plans! I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing, but what's a rough guesstimation regarding total cost to build such an oven?  ???

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2005, 03:13:22 AM »
I would guess between $500-$1000 depending on the trim and oven finish you choose. We really like to recommend firebrick, even though they cost a little more, because they heat faster and get hotter than red clay brick.

The cost components are the brick and mortar for the dome and floor, the block for the stand, concrete and vermiculite for the hearth and insulation, a vent and a stucoo finish.

You could also join the user group, where I am sure other builders have kept track of their costs.

FB

Rob

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2005, 11:55:49 PM »
       I also have the desire to build wood fire oven in our yard. I am not quite skilled in this type of work, but the drive is just too strong!

       I was thinking about purchasing reedy made dome and do the rest on my own. But as mentioned in the conversation I rather looked into the size founding this type of dome takes a lot of space and it's base or whole structure would be larger.

       Main reason is the hot floor space, round oven give lot less then square floor. I placed 2 paper cut outs of pizza size and imagining the fire on one side in a rectangle, it just shows round dome would need to be lot larger then rectangle. This reflects in material amount as well where rectangle oven is a winner again, the decision has been made!

       My Italian colleague thinks igloo shape brickwork involves too much sand and fire clay between firebricks, and apparently this is dangerous in ovens because the dome starts to collapse with age. “…alike the old Pompeii house ovens you can see ruined on photographs…”

       I would like to hear if anyone has experience with rectangular dome in particular baker Alan Scott oven. Thanks Charlie for suggesting http://www.traditionaloven.com  site the white oven is very similar to what we would like to add to our outdoors area :)  


James

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2005, 04:14:23 AM »
Rob,
There are a couple of reasons why I like the round design. I have a couple of rectangular ovens at home (in/out), and have been disappointed. I have installed round ovens in a couple of houses in Italy, and like them much better (which is why we came up with the plans). There are a couple things I have seen.

1. With a round oven you have room on the side for your fire and food/pizza in the side on the back. It's all reachable. With my 32x36 rectangular oven, there isn't a good place for the fire -- it's basically a one pizza oven. If you put the fire on the side, you have very little room on the side, and the back is lost. If you put it in the back, the fire doesn't reflect to the front of the oven. A 35" round gives you much more usable space than a 32x36, and uses about the same amount of material and footprint.

2. The round, spherical dome does a better job of bouncing heat down to the cooking floor evenly. You can cook pizza everywhere (or roasts and veggies) in the oven, and it cooks evenly. That is how the high volume pizzerias cook all those pizzas. The rectangular oven has a barrel vault, which gives you hot and cool spots, depending where the fire it.

3. The round dome is self-standing (ala the Duomo in Florence), so it does not need a lot of concrete clapping to hold it together. It is lighter and heats up much faster. A round oven will heat in an hour (or less depending on the type), where the heavier ovens take 2-3 hours, or more. That means you are burning more wood (which isn't good for the environment or your pocketbook). For me, the heat time is the difference between using my oven after work, or not.

There are also little things, like clean up.

The downside is that you can only bake around 25 loaves of bread from a single firing, not 75, but for a home oven, that works for me. I would note that all of the oven in Italy are round -- brick and prefabricated.

There are bunch of postings from builders who have seen the same thing on the Yahoo! user group.

Rob

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2005, 08:48:51 PM »
      Thanks James. I am little confused about which design I should go for. Luckily we have another 3 months till spring before building can actually start, I really want to have things clear coz the material is expensive work is involved and timely well the oven should be with us for ever and not to waste all the efforts :)

      I am undecided which type of dome construction I should go 4. Is it important to have bricks closely on inside in round dome or holes can be simply filled with mortar? It is visible you have them all nicely in line, but I am not much skilled with bricks :) My work involves mostly research and office and this building is total challenge. By the way in ecology burning wood is exactly equal to leaving woods laying on the ground after damaging storm, disintegrating of these trees in time produces exact results. Downturn of burning in residential areas is more the asthma triggering particles in the air.

      With my colleagues we have done another diagram test in regards of spacing inside the oven. Comparing same raised platform square floor at he back of the oven will give you 24% extra room, this is from the not circled corners so the space in non-round floor is kind of no doubt more useful!

      After absorption in return the heat distributes by radiation within the oven and spreads across by natural law evenly. I would not worry about burning food if placed next to edge coz heat radiation is even everywhere across. Other case is ovens having heat source from electric heating element or gas flame, there is the heat sent from one point and not all round. Any problems there, I am more concerned about choosing right construction methods with fewer difficulties behind a corner.

      Is it important to have bricks closely one to another on inside in the round dome or holes can be simply filled with mortar?
      Is the dome silhouette line actually calculated as arch so it is as you said “self-standing”??

Thankx

Willi

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2005, 08:31:26 PM »
rob are you here? wood oven is what we want for our home. i work as production potter for 25 years and partly use own by group very large wood fired pottery kiln built by 8 maniacs 8 years ago ash does great stoneware glazes

i analyzed the popeii oven dome I was hoping to hear same answers to extensive gaps in 5 and 7 last chains of bricks. when starting with that dome the site writes “Do not allow space for a mortar joint, as you will be setting the edges of the bricks facing inside the oven flush with each other.” this is impossible task to make igloo dome on top not only “closing it” clay shrinks bricks fell on meat. one can not do complete shonky job one wants meat! and not want to cut bricks forever do it bad and loose half! as i see it! surely they do not show this huge problem could be seen inside outside THE impossible covered with clay what do you do you can buy ready made dome1 when oven is back to ground level smart they sell domes too and you have base done just refer THE “firenze oven” sure boys you done your first oven great1  :( w

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2005, 10:06:00 AM »
Rob and Willi,

Here are some ideas behind the round oven deisgn. I'm not Italians and I don't play one on TV :), but I live here and spend most of my time with oven producers, pizzeria owners, tool producers, flour mills, etc. It's a of fun, and they really do a great job of brick ovens here.

1. The Round Oven design heats up much faster than the barrel vault oven -- less than an hour, compared with 2-3 hours or more for the heavier oven. The round dome is self-standing (ala the Duomo in Florence), so it does not need a lot of concrete clapping to hold it together. The barrel vault has a great deal of outward thrust, and needs a lot of concrete for buttressing. The round oven is lighter and depending on the material, will heat in an hour (or less depending on the type). Modern refractory ovens are designed with speed in mind, and heat up in about 40 minutes (not much longer than Kingsford). The barrel vault oven burns more wood (which isn't good for the environment or your pocketbook). For many, the heat up time is the difference between using my oven after work, or not. Round oven owners use their ovens a couple of times a week, and I know barrel vault oven owners that never fire their ovens.

2. The Round Oven can reach high Pizza Heat. Pizza should cook at around 700F, even higher. The round oven can reach and hold that heat, cooking pizza for long periods of time. The heavier oven has real trouble reaching and holding those high temperatures. The problem with too much thermal mass is that the heat from your fire has to heat the entire mass. That means that heat is continually moving away from the inside of you oven, where you want it for cooking, toward the outer edge of the thermal mass. That continues to happen until the entire mass is heated, which can take a very, very long time.

3. The Round Oven is designed for fire-in-the-oven cooking and pizza. With a round oven you have room for your fire on one side, and food/pizza on the other side and in the back. It's all reachable. With a 32x36 rectangular oven, there isn't a good place for the fire. If you put it on one side, you have very little room for food on the other side, and you cannot access the back. If you put the fire in the back, the heat and flame does not reflect to the front of the oven. A 35" round gives you much more usable space than a 32x36. For all the effort you are going to be putting into installing a wood-fired oven, a 32x36 rectangular oven is a one-pizza oven -- which is a shame.

4. The Round Oven cooks more evenly. The round, spherical dome does a better job of bouncing heat evenly on the cooking floor. You can cook pizza everywhere (or roasts and veggies) in the oven, and it cooks evenly. That is how the high volume pizzerias cook all those pizzas. The rectangular oven has a barrel vault, which gives you hot and cool spots, depending where the fire it.

There are also little things, like clean up.

The downside is that a pizza oven can only bake around 20-30 loaves of bread from a single firing, not 75. But for a home oven, that works for me. I make more bread than we could ever eat, and I give lots away.

There are about a million pizza ovens in Italy, and they are all round. I also think it is interesting that there is a lot of wood-fired oven bread in Italy (Pane Cotta a Legna), which is baked in large commercial brick bread ovens -- which are rectangular barrel vault oven.  I think the idea is that there are two basic oven designs: pizza oven and bread ovens, and you need to think about how you want to use your oven.
 FB

Anna

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2005, 05:26:20 PM »
Forno Bravo is commercial business oriented to sell ideas/products brought via web forums, theirs website, very understandable so what?

We too make super pizzas in non round oven and it fires into 850F in one hour and less, We make pizzas for 45 minutes then cook and bake for hours, the oven has perfect even temperature. I don’t know what they thei talk about it like desperate. We fire our oven several times a week. Our neighbors use the same oven for 20 years, it looks pretty we went for the same shape as is much beter and lasts long, we had igloo before it didn’t last long and we did a lot for it. Just one point for beginners igloo brick domes they promot will not last long and are hard to do, it is well know about igloos just look around for your selves. Out of fashion.

Clogging forums. ALA long starters postings with many nonobjective and non backed misleading suggestions. aka one has to be careful what is behind every story when money$ involved. Pompei or ferenze ovens, someone must be joking! In 2005 people want stuff to last to save on energy bills, and not things going to fell down to rubble because making fundamental mistakes!!! But who cares....... as always. But hey, I think they just want to make me feel, and I can see not only me, that we did wrong for our selves. That’s not nice at all. Thankx A

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood burning oven
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2005, 08:02:44 AM »
   
       My Italian colleague thinks igloo shape brickwork involves too much sand and fire clay between firebricks, and apparently this is dangerous in ovens because the dome starts to collapse with age. “…alike the old Pompeii house ovens you can see ruined on photographs…”

      Hey, you are talking about an oven 2000 years old and that has withstood a vulcano eruption and several earthquackes. If you can build something that strong, I will stop talking about pizza.

The Pompei ovens in the pictures are actually 2 different ones. One is till standing fine, the second had a minor domage on the top. You also need to think that the mortar used at the time didi not include any cement but was only made by sand, chalk and and white lime