New dough recipe

[3.14159265 Guy]

Going to try a new recipe for dough tomorrow.  My last weekend's pie was subpar at best and the only variation I had was that I opened a new batch of yeast.  The dough had a very fast rise before baking but fell a little flat before going in the oven.  It never hardly rose at all in the oven.  I normally have no problem with my recipe which I don't deviate from much ever.

Anyways, after that debacle I decided to stop using my high gluten flour and newly-open big block of yeast, and try something different.

I like a thicker crusted (american style?) pizza so I want to try bread flour.  the wife picked up a small bag of Pillsbury bread flour to try.  She also picked up some small packets of Fleischmann's active dry yeast.

Is there anything I should know about before using bread flour for pizza??  I always use high gluten, and have used "general purpose" flour in the past, but this is my first attempt with bread flour.

Here is my typical recipe.  I will only be changing the high gluten flour to bread flour...

1/4 cup warm water (about 110 degrees)
2 ½ teaspoons active dry yeast
1 teaspoon sugar
4 cups high gluten flour
1 1/8 teaspoon salt
1 1/4 cups cold water
1 tablespoon olive oil

In a bowl, combine warm water, yeast, and sugar and stir to combine.  Set aside and allow to rest for 10 minutes. In Kitchen Aid, combine flour and salt with paddle attachment.  Add the yeast mixture, cold water, and oil. Mix until a ball is formed: this will happen quickly, be careful not to overwork the dough. Change attachment to hook and knead for several minutes until dough is smooth. Allow dough to rest for 2 to 3 minutes. Remove dough and form into a ball by hand.  Place dough in oiled bowl and allow to rise at room temperature for 1-2 hours.

Punch dough down, divide into 2 balls, let rise at least another 1-2 hours.
Heat up pizza stone in a 450 degree F oven. Form an approx 14-inch pizza crust and place on pizza screen. Place toppings on the crust and place the pizza in the oven (on the screen) onto the pizza stone.  Bake until golden, about 10-15 minutes, rotating once half way through if needed.

[chiguy]

 3.1415Guy,
 The main difference between the High-gluten and bread are the gluten dough strength and water holding capacity of the flours. the bread flour has a lower gluten strength and softer bite. The absorbstion is high and the flours capacity to hold water is a bit lower. The current recipe you are using with HG flour is about 70% hydration. This will likley need to be decreased closer to 60% when switching to a bread flour, which is closer to the water capacity with the flour.    Chiguy

[3.14159265 Guy]

chiguy,

If I don't change the water amount, will the dough not rise correctly, or will it somehow not come out right?  How can I calculate the 10% difference in water content, or can I just reduce the water amount by a certian percentage?

Thanks!

[chiguy]

 3.14,
 The dough will rise but will be very wet and probably very difficult too handle.  I do not want to suggest any drastic changes in the recipe because you seem happy to an extent. So you may want too start small and cut back no more than 1oz/about1/8cup from the total water per 4 cups of flour.This would get you to about 65% hydration. At this level if the dough is still too wet you can add a little bench flour to bring the hydration down a little more. Unfortunately i cannot say much more because i scale my ingrediants. I did find it important too mention the difference in water capacity with the bread flour.There are some very good American style recipes on this site and many members have raved about Randys American Style recipe.         Chiguy

[November]

pi 2 8 Guy,

I would suggest reformulation, not just a single percentage change of water, or else you'll end up with less dough.  Use about 4 cups, 2 tablespoons, and 2 teaspoons bread flour along with 1 cup, 1/4 cup, and 2 tablespoons water for 60% hydration.

- red.november

EDIT: If you decide you want to try 65% as chiguy has suggested, use about 4 cups and 1 teaspoon bread flour along with 1 cup, 1/3 cup, 1 tablespoon, and 2 teaspoons water.  If that sounds like too much work, just use 4 cups bread flour along with 1 and 1/3 cups of water and you'll have 60.4% hydration but with 3.13% less dough as a result.  You can always invest in a scale too.

[gschwim]

If it's available in your area, try General Mills' Harvest King flour.  I tried it recently and was amazed at the results.

[3.14159265 Guy]

pi 2 8 Guy,

I would suggest reformulation, not just a single percentage change of water, or else you'll end up with less dough.  Use about 4 cups, 2 tablespoons, and 2 teaspoons bread flour along with 1 cup, 1/4 cup, and 2 tablespoons water for 60% hydration.

- red.november

EDIT: If you decide you want to try 65% as chiguy has suggested, use about 4 cups and 1 teaspoon bread flour along with 1 cup, 1/3 cup, 1 tablespoon, and 2 teaspoons water.  If that sounds like too much work, just use 4 cups bread flour along with 1 and 1/3 cups of water and you'll have 60.4% hydration but with 3.13% less dough as a result.  You can always invest in a scale too.

Thanks, I'll try to get it to the 60.4% level you mentioned, although I need to study the % charts I've seen, as I don't fully understand how they work.  I tend to work very casually with my pizzas, using sometimes a bit more of this or a tad less of that.  Surprisingly I get pretty consistent results.

Anyways, I'm going to start the dough now and let rise all day. Can I let it rise at room temp all day, or should I refrigerate for a portion of the time?

Thanks!

[chiguy]

 3.14guy,
 Yes you can let it the dough rise all day but you should probably cut back on the yeast to no more than about 1 teaspoon. This would be about 1% per the 4 cups of flour. Using 2 1/2 teaspoons is definetly too much yeast for a same day rise. I do not do many same day rises but i am aware that many call for about 1% yeast to flour ratio. I can tell you that the finished dough temperature along with the room temperature will ultimately determine the life of the dough.    chiguy

[3.14159265 Guy]

3.14guy,
 Yes you can let it the dough rise all day but you should probably cut back on the yeast to no more than about 1 teaspoon. This would be about 1% per the 4 cups of flour. Using 2 1/2 teaspoons is definetly too much yeast for a same day rise. I do not do many same day rises but i am aware that many call for about 1% yeast to flour ratio. I can tell you that the finished dough temperature along with the room temperature will ultimately determine the life of the dough.    chiguy

SHOOT!  I went ahead and made it with 1 packet of yeast (2 1/2 t??).  Should I retard it in the fridge for a while?

[November]

5 * arctan(sqrt(5 - (2 * sqrt(5)))) Guy,

I need to study the % charts I've seen, as I don't fully understand how they work.

I'm not sure what charts you're referring to, but the hydration percentage comes from dividing the weight of the water by the weight of the flour.  I calculated the weight of your flour by using the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator found here:

http://tools.foodsim.com/

You don't have to retard the dough in the refrigerator, just don't let it rise all day.  Use it after a few hours.

- red.november

[3.14159265 Guy]

5 * arctan(sqrt(5 - (2 * sqrt(5)))) Guy,

I'm not sure what charts you're referring to, but the hydration percentage comes from dividing the weight of the water by the weight of the flour.  I calculated the weight of your flour by using the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator found here:

http://tools.foodsim.com/

You don't have to retard the dough in the refrigerator, just don't let it rise all day.  Use it after a few hours.

- red.november

Thanks for the conversion calculator.

I made it at 10:30 am, it's now 12:57 pm and it has risen to over twice it's original size.  Guess we'll be eating earlier than I had planned