Author Topic: Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion  (Read 5208 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jacobus Maximus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Portland OR (where gormand foodies take cooking seriously)
  • la pizza Ť vita che il resto Ť particolari giusti
Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion
« on: January 13, 2007, 10:13:58 PM »
Sorry about the long subject line, but I couldnít think of anything more concise. Anyway, I came across a recipe by Tom Lehmann that would approximate Papa Johnís original crust, but itís in bakerís percentages and it seems that no matter what I enter for search terms in Google I canít find anything to convert the recipe. Iím going for a 16 inch pie-whatever thickness PJís would have.

Flour (12-13% protein) 100%
Salt 1.75%
Sugar 2%
Olive oil 3%
Filtered water (60-70į F) 55-58% [56.5%]
ADY .75%

At some point I had come across a conversion calculator, but now I canít find it. It seemed that for a 16 in. pie someone on this forum had once said 4C of flour (for NY style, which I figured was similar) so I used that as a starting point to convert the recipe as follows:

Flour 4C
Salt .84 tsp - .28 Tbsp (I settled on 3/4 heaping tsp)
Sugar .96 tsp - .32 Tbsp (just under 1 tsp)
Olive oil 1.44 tsp - .48 Tbsp (just under 1 1/2 tsp)
Filtered water (this is where I got thrown off-twiceÖ) 4 1/2 fl oz.
ADY .36 tsp - .12 Tbsp (very heaping 1/4 tsp)

Does this sound right? About the water-when I first looked at the recipe when I went to make the dough, I thought 4 1/2 fl oz. was not nearly enough (plus it drove me crazy that it was in oz. and not C or something) so I figured out that 56.5% of 4C is 2 1/4C. Oops. I forgot the percentages were percentages by weight not volume. And I wondered why the dough was so stickyÖAnyway, I retried the recipe again, but I only had like 3 or 3 1/2 C left (KAAP if anyone is wondering-itís the only KA I can find around here) so I scaled things back accordingly and used just over 4 fl oz. of water, but less than 4 1/2. That time the dough was drier than the Mohave. Iím really starting to get frustrated. Maybe I should just get a nice scale. Anyone have any suggestions?

Also, if I heat the oven (broiler) to 500į and Iím using a pizza screen (as PJís does) on what rack and how long should I cook it for do you think?

Thanks,
Jacob


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21169
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 11:00:29 PM »
Jacob,

If you had asked before going through everything you did, I could have saved you a lot of time.
Based on the information you provided, and using a thickness factor of 0.132 in the Lehmann dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html, I came up with the following:

A-P Flour (100%):           458.79 g  |  16.18 oz | 1.01 lbs
Water (56.5%):              259.22 g  |  9.14 oz | 0.57 lbs
Oil (3%):                         13.76 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.95 tsp | 0.98 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):                  8.03 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.44 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
ADY (0.75%):                  3.44 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Sugar (2%):                    9.18 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.3 tsp | 0.77 tbsp
Total (164%):                 752.41 g | 26.54 oz | 1.66 lbs | TF = 0.132

Using member Novemberís conversion tool at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, the flour converts to 3 Ĺ cups, 3 tablespoons and Ĺ teaspoon on a volume basis. I even confirmed those numbers using my digital scale, using Gold Medal all-purpose flour. The water equates to 1 cup, 1 tablespoon and about 1 Ĺ teaspoons (also from Novemberís calculator).

I donít know what kind of oven you have, but a pizza of the above size and thickness will take at least 8-9 minutes in my oven when baked on a pizza screen on the lowest oven rack position and an oven temperature of arouind 500 degrees F.

I hope you will let us know how your pizza turns out.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 05:30:40 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Jacobus Maximus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Portland OR (where gormand foodies take cooking seriously)
  • la pizza Ť vita che il resto Ť particolari giusti
Re: Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 11:39:47 PM »
Pete-

Thanks. I'll have to go to the grocery store tomorrow (Sun) make the dough then and we'll have the pie on Mon (good thing I have the day off...)

I'll hopefully post a reply on Mon night saying how it went. Am I right on all my other measurements (at least I can use the recipe you provided)?

Offline Jacobus Maximus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Portland OR (where gormand foodies take cooking seriously)
  • la pizza Ť vita che il resto Ť particolari giusti
Re: Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2007, 12:30:30 AM »
Pete-

Wow. Thanks so much. I just realized how much your recipe/conversion actually helped me (and how far off I was-man!)

So this is what I will be making on Mon night and how I will be making it. Does it sound right to you? I converted your grams to tsp (figured it was the most accurate conversion) using the conversion calculator at GourmetSleuth.com (for the conversions for the other stuff.)

Flour (12-13% protein) 100% 3 1/2 C 3 Tbsp 1/2 tsp.
Salt 1.75% heaping 1 1/4 tsp.
Sugar 2% just under 2 1/4 tsp.
Olive Oil 3% 3 tsp.
Filtered Water (65-70į F) 55-58% [56.5] 1 C 1Tbsp 1 1/2 tsp.
ADY .75% heaping 3/4 tsp.
3 tsp. Filtered Water (105-110į F)
To proof the yeast, put in water, stir thoroughly and let stand 10-15 min.

Using a stand mixer such as a KitchenAid with the paddle attachment:

Add salt & sugar to flour, mix thoroughly; set aside
Add water (65-70į) to mixing bowl
Add proofed yeast
Add salt/sugar/flour mix
Mix on low for 2 min.
Mix on med. until the flour has been picked up into dough (using a long spatula to scrape the insides of the mixing bowl helps)
Add oil and mix on low for 2 min.

Switch to dough hook
Mix on med. for 8-10 min. (until dough develops a smooth, satiny appearance)
Dough (internal) temperature should be 75-80į
Wipe dough ball with olive oil and put into container (container must have air-tight lid)
Place container with dough ball uncovered in fridge for 2 hours to cool
Cover container with lid and leave in fridge minimum 48 hours (guess we'll be having the pizza on Tues instead of Mon-oh well)
When ready, remove container with lid and bring to room temperature 2-3 hours

Shape the dough
(see poorly drawn diagram that I drew up after seeing the poster/diagram in PJ's)
Turn dough out on floured surface
Shape into half-sphere mound
Flip it over
Push dough out from center
Hand-toss
Dock the dough
Shape onto pizza screen

Dress the pizza
1 C pizza sauce (in the future I will use the PJ's sauce clone found in various places in this forum, but this time I have some leftover sauce I used to make Parmesan Chicken so I'll use that)
2 C (8 oz.) finely shredded Italian style cheese (Kroger brand-6 Cheese: Mozz, smoked Provalone, Romano, Parmesan, Fontina & Asiago. I like this mix better than just plain Mozz-I dunno...)
Toppings 1/2 dry salami nuggets & smoked oysters (for me) and 1/2 Canadian bacon & fresh sliced Roma tomatoes (for wife)

Cook the pizza
Preheat broiler for 90 min.
Cook pizza on bottom rack for 8-9 min. rotating 180į 1/2 way through cooking (I don't know where I came up with having to rotate it, do you? I know when I worked at a pizza place they often rotated the pies part way through cooking, but I don't know why-uneven heat distribution?)
Put pizza on cooling rack & cool for 3 min. before cutting and serving.

Serve and enjoy
Dip pizza crusts in garlic sauce. MmmÖGarlic sauce

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21169
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2007, 10:54:00 AM »
Jacob,

Generally, it looks like your numbers are OK except that I would use part of the formula water to rehydrate the ADY, at around 105 degrees F, for about 10 minutes, after which it can be combined with the rest of the formula water, which can be on the cool side if you are concerned about finished dough temperature (which you seem to be). I don't know if you will need all of the 8-10 minutes of knead time at medium speed so I would watch for the desired finished dough condition rather than be tied to the clock. I also don't think you will need to dock the dough, although it is quite possible that PJ does employ docking. I am not sure that you will need an air-tight container to hold the dough or that you will need 2 hours to cool down a dough ball weighing only 26-27 ounces before putting the cover on the container. If you are following instructions for making commercial quantities of dough, which it seems you may be doing, you may want to scaled them back to what may be more suitable for a single dough ball weighing about 26-27 ounces. You will have to use your judgment on this.

I also wonder whether you need to preheat your oven for 90 minutes since you will be using a pizza screen, not a stone that requires a long preheat. When I bake pizzas on screens in my oven, I only preheat the oven (at the required temperature) for only 12-15 minutes. Maybe your oven is different, so I will defer to your unique knowledge about your own oven. You may want to use an oven thermometer or some other thermometer to check your oven temperature to be sure it is at the desired value.

Good luck.

Peter

Offline husker3in4

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 108
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Nebraska
  • Crazy for Pizza
Re: Need help with Lehmann's Papa John's style recipe conversion
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2007, 01:05:27 AM »
If this doesnt work to your liking, try the recipe that Randy and Peetza came up for me (and broken down into cups, tbs etc). Its in the General Pizza forum under "Randy a Request for you" or something like that. It should be near the top. When I made it, it was so close to papa johns I wouldnt have noticed a difference, except it tasted better. Same texture, feel etc. Randy also posted a recipe for his sauce, which I am going to give a try to this weekend.