Author Topic: thin- airy crust HELP !!  (Read 11978 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2007, 03:45:41 PM »
Jimmy,

Randy should be able to take good care of you so long as you follow his instructions explicitly. Reading that you kneaded roughly 12 ounces of dough for 15 minutes, even at low speed, and that you used a rolling pin to roll the dough out to 14" helps explain why you got the results you did.

Peter


Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2007, 04:03:28 PM »
Pete, thanks to you guys, I havent given up hope on making a great pizza. I've learned more in the past week from you guys than I have in the past 2 years. I stretched out  the dough by hand today rather than use a rolling pin and I can see the difference. It looked more like a football than a round pie, but with practice, I'll get the hang of it.

Offline Jack

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2007, 05:46:52 PM »
It looked more like a football than a round pie, but with practice, I'll get the hang of it.

Jimmy,

Don't worry about the football shape.  It's the taste and texture you are after.  For a while, my kids used to guess what state I had just baked until I threatened (jokingly) to stop making pizza.  Now my pies are fairly round 90+% of the time.  Every once in a while, I get a "Flyer" and it's another guessing game as to what Dad really intended. 

For a round pizza, make sure your dough ball hits your table top round.  If you allow it to come out of your container lopsided and it starts to lose the nice round shape, you may not easily be able to get it back.  Treat your dough balls gently and they will reward you by performing well.  If the dough does not want to be round, don't force it.  Be one with the dough; feel the dough Obe-wan.

Have fun.  You are on the right track.  Pizza making, like life, is a journey, not a destination.

Jack

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2007, 06:45:27 PM »
Jimmy, take a look at this thread with my American recipe.  This recipe will get you going for sure.  As Peter pointed out once we rooted out that you were using a rolling pin you are on the road to great pizza.  If don't like my recipe then go back to one of Peter's or the one Steve posted in the recipe section.
On my recipe you can use your bread flour and regular sugar is just fine if you dont have raw and vegtable will work in olace of the classico olive oil if that helps.  It makes two 12" pizzas.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4460.0.html

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2007, 10:23:27 AM »
o.k.  thanks Randy, Ill give that a try next week, looking forward to it.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2007, 10:38:28 AM »
I was suprised to see honey in the recipe. why do you use honey when you already have sugar ? So is that a total of 21 minutes mixing ?

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2007, 10:56:02 AM »
Should I be using the harvest King flour rather than this pillsbury flour ? If so, I'd probably have to  order it and  I notice that harvest king sells several different types of flour, which one would I order ? Thanks.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2007, 01:39:25 PM »
Yes the recipe has honey and sugar.  If you prefer no sugar then use steve's recipe.  The honey adds flavor.
Harvest King flour is available at most walmart stores and has only one type so I am not sure what flour you are looking at but Goldmedal harvest king flour is what I use.  Your bread flour will also work well.  Use your SAF instant yeast.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2007, 02:17:36 PM »
Randy, I cant wait to try your recipe next week. In the mean-time just for the heck of it, I made one more batch of Recipe#1 but I used 50 % of the Pillsbury flour i used before and 50 % of this special King Arthur "perfect pizza blend" and went with 1/2 tespoon of instant yeast as opposed to 1/4 teaspoon of active yeast in the first recipe. Im just curious what these few changes would make if any. I'll let you know.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2007, 05:54:12 PM »
Now you have the spirit.  Just read and keep banging away and you are on your way now.  Lots of good pizza bakers on this web site, soon you will be one of them.


Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2007, 06:28:34 PM »
You guys are AWSOME, thats all I can say.  You got me fired up about pizza again just when I was ready to throw in the peel !!  My wife tried the one I made with recipe # 1 and said "it's great" but as I told her, with  the help and suggestions from all you guys, it will only get better. Thanks again for your patience and encouragement.
I will keep working on it and report back to you guys with each pizza a bake. Thanks again guys !!!!

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2007, 10:23:51 AM »
Hello pizza lovers, As I mentioned in previouse post, I tweaked recipe # 1 and I'll be trying that later today. The dough is still in the fridge and I did notice that this batch did rise when the other 2 didnt in the fridge. The addition of 1/2 tesp of yeast rather than 1/4 tsp. must be the reson. At any rate, I wil bake it later today and let you know. Next week I will be trying Randy's recipe. Looking forward to that one. Randy, am I correct when I read that there is a total of 21 minutes of mixing time on your recipe ?

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2007, 11:52:09 AM »
"Mix sugar, honey, oil and water then add to bowl on stir, stop after 2 minutes.
During the first 7 min knead at speed 2 you will have to add one or two tablespoons of flour before the end of the 7 minutes but remember this is a very wet dough.  In a KitchenAid Mixer a very large say 2 to 3”round dough will remain stuck to the bottom of the mixer bowl.
Rest 5 min
Run 7 min on speed 2
Rest 5 min
Run 7  min on speed 2"
************************************************
2 min on stir to mix
turn off the mixer for 5 min
run the mixer on speed 2 for 7 min.
turn off the mixer for 5 min.
turn the mixer to speed 2 for 7 min.
stop mixer
hand knead a few times then shape.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2007, 09:15:53 AM »
O.K.  I tried that recipe # 1 that i tweaked a little bit as stated in previous post. It did rise about 15 % in the fridge and abot 25% at room temp. The dough ballhad cracks in it rather than a smooth rise.
When I tried to stretch it and shape it by hand, it was very eleastic at all and started tearing, so I had no choice but to get out the rolling pin. Anyway, after I baked it, it had a nice crisp and very thin crust with some air cells in it. My neighbors loved it. I still want to try randy's recipe. As good as this tasted, I wasnt happy with the fact that I couldnt work and stretch the dough by hand, so Im still experimenting. I'll probably try randys recipe in 4-5 days from now. I'll keep you posted

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2007, 11:27:31 AM »
As Peter pointed out in his post, recipe 1 is a little dry for this kind of pizza that is stretched.  I am not surprised it tore.  You really need to use a recipe with 60% water or more to get a good stretch. 

When we say 60% what we are saying is take how much flour you are going to use and multiply by .60.  As an example let's say you were going to make a pizza that had 16 oz of flour.  At 60% hydration the amount of water by weight you would use is 9.6 oz.
To prevent the dough ball from drying out coat the bowl that will  be used for the rise in with a light coat oil or Pam.  When the dough ball is ready roll it around to coat the ball with oil.  Cover the top of the dough ball with plastic wrap then place another piece on top of the bowl then place the bowl in the cooler.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2007, 06:28:42 PM »
Hi Randy, its Tues. night and Im going to finally try your recipe. As you atated, in my Kitchen Aid mixer, the dough-ball is basically just spinning around in circles on the dough hook, rather than actually mixing or kneading. I hope this is o.k. Anyway After I mix it I will store it for 2 days as you suggest and then on Thursday I'll bake a pizza and let you know how it comes out. thanks again.

Offline chewie

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2007, 12:53:16 AM »
Thanks Pete-zza.  I didn't realize that a gummy layer might actually be something other than uncooked.

I especially like the reference in the link to "retarded dough".  It must be the obnoxious teenager in me that made me go "heheheheheh.  It says 'retarded dough'!" when I read that part.

chewie,

At the moment we are waiting to see if Jimmy experiences the so-called "gummy" problem using the two new recipes. However, if you would like in the meantime to read about the distinction between a doughy layer and a gummy layer, you can read this item: [deleted link so I could post this response]. As you noted, it is also possible to put a thin layer of oil on the dough before adding the sauce. However, this is usually only done if a dough is likely to be sitting around for a long time before being dressed and baked. Pizza operators will often pre-prepare a number of skins this way to meet above average demand, as when they they expect to be slammed.

Peter

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2007, 02:04:06 AM »
I will report that after the dough has been in the fridge ( Randy's recipe) for about 5 hours it has risen about 50%, what that means I'm not really sure. My neghbors cant wait to try the pizza after it sits in the fridge for 2 days. I will give you guys the report after I bake the pies. Wish me luck, Im looking forward to it.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2007, 09:56:40 AM »
O.K.  Last night I finally made Randy's recipe.  Imade 3 seperate pizzas. The dough was fairly esy to work and stretch out, I did not use  a rolling pin, and I did pierce the dough a few times with a fork rather than use my docker.
The crust came out nice and thin, but it dint have the "airy-ness" im trying to achieve, as indicated in Rany's pics of his pizza in previous posts in this thread. The cust was more like the cross section of a piece of bread, not super dense, but not airy. Maybe my yeast is old ? Not sure at this point, but i think I need to do some "tweaking" and not sure whcih direction to gon in. Suggestions ?

Online Pete-zza

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2007, 10:21:53 AM »
Jimmy V,

You didn't indicate what size pizzas you made, but I estimate that the recipe you followed makes around 38.5 ounces of dough. That is for two pizzas, not three. So, it is possible that you changed the character of the pizza, and especially the crust, by not following Randy's instructions explicitly. If I were to use Randy's recipe, I would make two 14" pizzas. To make three pizzas, whether 12" or 14", would require scaling Randy's recipe to produce those results.

Peter