Author Topic: thin- airy crust HELP !!  (Read 12955 times)

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Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2007, 04:57:57 PM »
Peter, I wonder if the type of pizza he wants matches the recipe he is using.
Jimmy can you give us an example using a well known retail pizza joint.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2007, 05:10:28 PM »
Randy,

In Reply 4 in this thread I asked Jimmy what style pizza he was after and he responded:

The Crust I want is more of a New York style = Thin, yet airy, not "gummy" where the sauce and dough meet.

Jimmy's response is what prompted me to suggest the Lehmann style, of which Recipe 2 is a "thinner" version. Recipe 1 looks like a NY style recipe except that the hydration, at 56%, is on the low side. However, I have heard of NY style doughs with 56% hydration.

Peter

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2007, 05:37:05 PM »
Yes I read his response but as you know, New York style is used to describe a wide range of pies.  In this case he may be referring to a brick oven pizza since the texture seems to be at the forefront.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 08:50:33 PM »
Randy, actually there isnt a good pizza joint here locally that I could give you as an axample, for the crust i'm trying to achieve. I guess the only way I can describe it si, it would be approx.  1/4 in inch thick, possibly a little thicker, and if yoy took a cross section photo of it. it would have air pockets in it, rather than being denxe like card-board.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2007, 09:28:09 PM »
Look close at this picture and see if this is about right.  Note the big air hole in the end of the crust.  The small dark spots are holes in the bottom of the crust from the oven spring.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 09:30:04 PM by Randy »

Offline chewie

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2007, 11:16:55 PM »
I know I'm a newbie to pizza making and maybe I'm really confused here, but...

if the dough is gummy only where the dough and the sauce meet, doesn't that suggest that either the pizza isn't getting enough cooking on top or that the sauce might be too thin?

What am I missing?  Is it just that the dough must be absorbing too much liquid during cooking?  Or maybe he needs a small coating of oil on the top of the crust to act as a barrier?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2007, 11:54:32 PM »
chewie,

At the moment we are waiting to see if Jimmy experiences the so-called "gummy" problem using the two new recipes. However, if you would like in the meantime to read about the distinction between a doughy layer and a gummy layer, you can read this item: http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/07_Dough_trouble-shooting/07_dough-crust_trouble-shooting.htm#_Toc533730504. As you noted, it is also possible to put a thin layer of oil on the dough before adding the sauce. However, this is usually only done if a dough is likely to be sitting around for a long time before being dressed and baked. Pizza operators will often pre-prepare a number of skins this way to meet above average demand, as when they they expect to be slammed.

Peter

EDIT (2/1/2013): For an alternative Correll link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20040602213637/http://correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/07_Dough_trouble-shooting/07_dough-crust_trouble-shooting.htm
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 02:38:49 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline chiguy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2007, 11:59:33 PM »
 Chewy,
 You are correct that gummy crust can be sauce or baking related problems and either adjustments to the bake time/temps or a brush of oil in the case of the sauce can help with gummy crust issues.         Chiguy
 
 EDIT: I missed that Pete-zza has addressed the gum line question.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 12:02:25 AM by chiguy »

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2007, 09:03:13 AM »
Randy, I looked at your pic in post #29 that looks EXACTLY like what Im trying to achieve in my crust, how do I make that recipe ?
Anyway, I did bake the 2 recipes last night. I rolled them both VERY thin, and baked them at 550 F on a pre-heated stone. neither pizza did any rising while baking. recipe #1  was thin and "crisp" but not airy. There was no "gummy: texuture at all between the dough and sauce on either pizza which i was happy about.
Recipe was actually about the the same, not much fifference, very little airyness in the crust. Maybe more yeast next time or what ? thanks for your sugestions.I actually liked recipe #1 beter of the two.


Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2007, 10:37:27 AM »
Jimmy, lets get you started with the basics.  First if you would answer a few question.
From your post, you have a scale.  Is that right?  Does it go to a tenth of an ounce?
Do you hand knead or use a mixer like a KitchenAid?
What flour do you have on hand?
What yeast do you have on hand?
Do you use a stone, screen or pan or some combination?
Do you have a thermometer to measure water temperature?
I noticed you said you rolled out the dough.  Not such a good idea.
Would shape a pizza by hand?
From these questions we should be able to get the right recipe for you.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2007, 10:58:04 AM »
By the way here is a good video on pizza shaping, just ignore the rolling part.
http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/pages/cvt033.asp

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2007, 11:00:36 AM »
My scale measures in Grams, Dwt. and Oz. I have never tried the Oz. feature. on recipe # 1 I hand Kneaded the dough, on Recipe # 2 I used the kitchen Aid mixer with a dough hook on low speed for 15 minutes. The flour I had on hand was Pillsbury Best Bread flour/ Protein 4 G. thats the only flour I can find locally, so I may have to order some on line.The yeast i used was Fleischmans Active yeast and I aslo have "Saf-Instant"  instant yeast that I havent tried.I used a stone last night but I do also have a screen. I used a digital thermometer and the water was at 104 F. I did use a rolling pin to roll it out. Hope this answers your questions...thanks

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2007, 11:23:09 AM »
Thanks Randy, but for some reason i can not view the video. Not sure why.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2007, 12:44:50 PM »
odd, I just ran the video using the quicktime version.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2007, 01:00:20 PM »
I didnt have the quick-time player down loaded. i do have it now, and I did watch the video

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2007, 03:45:41 PM »
Jimmy,

Randy should be able to take good care of you so long as you follow his instructions explicitly. Reading that you kneaded roughly 12 ounces of dough for 15 minutes, even at low speed, and that you used a rolling pin to roll the dough out to 14" helps explain why you got the results you did.

Peter

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2007, 04:03:28 PM »
Pete, thanks to you guys, I havent given up hope on making a great pizza. I've learned more in the past week from you guys than I have in the past 2 years. I stretched out  the dough by hand today rather than use a rolling pin and I can see the difference. It looked more like a football than a round pie, but with practice, I'll get the hang of it.


Offline Jack

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2007, 05:46:52 PM »
It looked more like a football than a round pie, but with practice, I'll get the hang of it.

Jimmy,

Don't worry about the football shape.  It's the taste and texture you are after.  For a while, my kids used to guess what state I had just baked until I threatened (jokingly) to stop making pizza.  Now my pies are fairly round 90+% of the time.  Every once in a while, I get a "Flyer" and it's another guessing game as to what Dad really intended. 

For a round pizza, make sure your dough ball hits your table top round.  If you allow it to come out of your container lopsided and it starts to lose the nice round shape, you may not easily be able to get it back.  Treat your dough balls gently and they will reward you by performing well.  If the dough does not want to be round, don't force it.  Be one with the dough; feel the dough Obe-wan.

Have fun.  You are on the right track.  Pizza making, like life, is a journey, not a destination.

Jack

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2007, 06:45:27 PM »
Jimmy, take a look at this thread with my American recipe.  This recipe will get you going for sure.  As Peter pointed out once we rooted out that you were using a rolling pin you are on the road to great pizza.  If don't like my recipe then go back to one of Peter's or the one Steve posted in the recipe section.
On my recipe you can use your bread flour and regular sugar is just fine if you dont have raw and vegtable will work in olace of the classico olive oil if that helps.  It makes two 12" pizzas.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4460.0.html

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2007, 10:23:27 AM »
o.k.  thanks Randy, Ill give that a try next week, looking forward to it.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2007, 10:38:28 AM »
I was suprised to see honey in the recipe. why do you use honey when you already have sugar ? So is that a total of 21 minutes mixing ?

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2007, 10:56:02 AM »
Should I be using the harvest King flour rather than this pillsbury flour ? If so, I'd probably have to  order it and  I notice that harvest king sells several different types of flour, which one would I order ? Thanks.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2007, 01:39:25 PM »
Yes the recipe has honey and sugar.  If you prefer no sugar then use steve's recipe.  The honey adds flavor.
Harvest King flour is available at most walmart stores and has only one type so I am not sure what flour you are looking at but Goldmedal harvest king flour is what I use.  Your bread flour will also work well.  Use your SAF instant yeast.

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2007, 02:17:36 PM »
Randy, I cant wait to try your recipe next week. In the mean-time just for the heck of it, I made one more batch of Recipe#1 but I used 50 % of the Pillsbury flour i used before and 50 % of this special King Arthur "perfect pizza blend" and went with 1/2 tespoon of instant yeast as opposed to 1/4 teaspoon of active yeast in the first recipe. Im just curious what these few changes would make if any. I'll let you know.

Offline Randy

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Re: thin- airy crust HELP !!
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2007, 05:54:12 PM »
Now you have the spirit.  Just read and keep banging away and you are on your way now.  Lots of good pizza bakers on this web site, soon you will be one of them.


 

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