wild yeast starter for pizza crust?

[ml]

Peter,

Thank you.  Assuming that I also make this with IDY, how much of that should I use?  For that I was going to use your original recipe on the " New Kitchen Aid Method"   thread, but if it needs to change for bread flour, I would be grateful to know what you think.  thanks

ML

[Pete-zza]

ml,

I have made the adjustment and added 2.5% to the dough ingredients to compensate for small losses during preparation of the dough. As you will see below, the changes in IDY are negligible at the volume measurement stage.

Bread Flour (100%):             197.98 g  |  6.98 oz | 0.44 lbs
Water (63%):                       124.73 g  |  4.4 oz | 0.27 lbs
Salt (1.75%):                        3.46 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
IDY (0.25%):                         0.49 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.16 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
Oil (1%):                               1.98 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Total (166%):                       328.65 g | 11.59 oz | 0.72 lbs | TF = 0.1025

If it is cold where you live, you can increase the IDY a bit if you'd like. For example, at 0.40% IDY, you would be using around 1/4 t. IDY.

Peter

[ml]

Peter,

Thank you.  I've had a small setback in that the frozen/defrosted starter was unresponsive when I fed it.  Therefore I have " started" over from the beginning to make a new one.  So, if this goes well, I'll make the crusts next week now.  Just an update for you on the timing.

ML

[LabRat]

I'm not sure how you are creating your starter, but I have had good success taking advantage of the wild yeasts that naturally grow on many thin skinned berries.  The starter I have been using for the last 18 months or so was orginally made by placing a few blueberries I picked while hiking in a slack flour/water mixture (200% water to flour by weight) and letting it sit loosely covered for a few days, gently stirring every 24 hours.  When it bacame frothy, I fished out the berries and added enough flour to make it ~100% hydration.  I had a workable starter in about 4 days which I kept at room temperature and fed daily for about a week.  Over the next few months the flavors became more complex as the microbes in the starter became extablished.  Both grapes and blueberries are excellent choices for creating a starter, but anything you buy in a market should be organic so you don't have to worry about pesticides having altered the natural mix of microbes.

[ml]

I'm using the starter that is in Peter Reinhardt's book Breadmaker's Apprentice.  It uses organic rye flour as the seed-- I made it once before and it seemed to work well.  But you are correct that it needs to be established for awhile for the flavors to develop. I make very little bread, so I don't know if I really want to keep a starter on hand all the time, however.  That is why I tried the freezing method that Reinhardt suggests, but it didn't work.  I'd be interested to know, however, if you use regular, bread, or high-gluten flour for the feedings -once the starter is ready- to keep it going.

[scott r]

if the starter is cared for properly you can probably get away with feeding it a small amount about once a month.  There is no need to keep huge quantities in your fridge since it will grow when you prepare it for baking.   If you keep your starter fairly stiff, more like a dough, you can probably even get away with waiting even longer between feedings.  I don't think it is much work at all even if you bake infrequently.

I start with about 150 grams of starter and feed that 40 grams of water and 65 grams of flour.  Those small quantities are fine for my purposes since I use a very small amount of starter in my actual dough recipe.   Someone like Bill SFNM or Jeff Varasano would probably need larger amounts on hand because they use much more starter in their dough.  Bread recipies also use much more starter, so you could double or even triple my amounts.

I feed my starter caputo, but King arthur bread flour or GM harvest king flour would also be great for your feedings.   Basically any unbromated flour should work fine, but you should probably stick to one brand.

Once you are done using your starter just feed it then wait about an hour before it goes back in the fridge.   When it is time to feed again pull it out, stir in the hooch if there is any, pour 150 grams into a sterilized plastic or glass container and feed the 40g of water and 65g of starter.  This will be a stiff starter so it will take some elbow grease to mix, but that will allow you to feed fairly infrequently.

[LabRat]

I usually only have about 300 grams of starter (equal weight flour and water) on hand at a time which I keep in the refrigerator in a sealed gladware container.  Generally I try to make something once a week, but I have let it go for up to four weeks between feedings with no problem.  When I want to bake some bread, I just weigh out 200 grams starter and mix in 200 grams water and 100 grams flour in to my KA mixing bowl and let it sit overnight loosely covered.  The starter I use is replaced with equal weights filtered water and whatever unbleached/unbromated flour I have on hand (usually not the expensive stuff), allowed to warm up for a few hours so the microbes can get busy, then placed back in the fridge with the top on tight.  The next day the mixture in the KA bowl is usually nice and frothy and I can just weigh out the rest of my ingredients and go from there.  I have heard of people forgetting about their starter for months and being able to revive it in this manner, but have not done so myself.  

[ml]

Peter,

Well, I had another setback with the new starter-- it failed, and I had to begin yet again, on Wednesday eve. I think I made a fatal error by having it too warm, and also I can't remember exactly what I used to seed  my original successful one.  Since I promised to post my results with your new method, using pre-ferment and IDY to compare, I just wanted to keep you updated on my schedule.  I will be able to tell you on Monday whether the new one is a GO, or not.  If it is, then I should be making the 2 doughs early next week.  By the way, I recieved the 6 in 1 tomatoes, and also I received Caputo Russo flour ( which I won't be using for the pizza)  I was suprised with the flour, that when you feel it between your fingers, it seems a little gritty.  Has anyone else noticed this?  It is Tipo 00, 13% protien.   My Gold Medal unbleached flour feels very soft and silky in comparison,

ML

[ml]

Peter,

Another update, which is the starters still are not working.  There must have been a serious decline in yeast organisms in my kitchen since December.  Anyway, I'm still working on it with intentions to make the 2 doughs as soon as I have a viable starter.  Mr Reinhart is very kindly assisting me with my problems, so eventually success will be had!  I didn't want you to think that I had forgotten!

ML

[icemncmth]

ML, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I am not sure your starter will totally recover from freezing.  I have been reading a bunch on the subject and it is tough to tell the fact from fiction, however...  I am almost positive that there are certain organisms in most starters that can be frozen, and other organisms that can not recover from a freeze.   I did some experimentation with the ishca starter (from sourdo.com) and it was definitely not the same after a freeze of only a week.  I hope your strain is one that will deal with the freeze better.

I have actually been avoiding sending some of my starter to a family member that wants it until the weather warms up again.   

The best way to send some to your family would be to dry some of yours when it is really going well ..just put some on wax paper set it someplace and let it dry..I just put mine in the oven (off) for a day...then you have dry yeast..All you have to do is hydrate and feed some flour..

As for freezing ..you can freeze a starter but it has to be a really active starter..One that has been fed every 2-4 hours for 12 hours...one that will double in size in less than an hour...

I use a starter for pizza all the time...but I do something different...

I only use about 7 grams of starter...and adjust the hydration...then I let it sit in the fridge for several days...I you have a very active starter you don't need much if you have the time...I think when it comes to pizza people use a little too much starter...

If you have a starter like I do that is probably 60 years old (been passed around in the family for years) and is very active and you use the standard 1 cup
rule ...and add that to a pizza recipe..it would be like adding a cups worth of the yeast you currently use. Because if it is active and bubbling then the yeast is multiplying at a very fast pace and your dough will be ready in no time..

I will do this if I need a pizza dough ready in hours but you won't get the same taste...

Remeber if you use a lot of yeast and even if you stick it in the fridge for too long....the waste product of yeast is alcohol or in the sourdough community "hooch".

I only feed my starters probably once a month..I pull them out of the fridge...dump off the blackish hooch...mix in my 60% flour 40% water 1/4 cup total..
wait till I see some action...when I see it going well...feed again 1/4 cup..(usually 2 hours) I do this until I have whatever volume I need..

When I am done I only have about 1/4 in the fridge or less..
I have all my starters dryed and in the freezer..I do this about every six months just to make sure and I keep some at my mom's place just in case...

When you make bread and you use a starter you can very the time of proofing...by using smaller amounts of yeast...cold...or both...