Author Topic: caputo 00 yay or nay?  (Read 8138 times)

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Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2007, 02:15:20 PM »
I am not saying that caputo is the only flour, but you may want to give it a second chance. I really don't think that the flour is the reason for your bad results.  The reason why there are only a few places using wild yeast in the US is because it is SO MUCH HARDER to get a consistently good product.  My guess is that the problem is with the starters activation (too acidic, or not active enough), or the dough was not fermented properly. Unfortunately the only place I know for sure that is using wild yeast here in the US is UPN and they suffer from massive inconsistency in their crust.

Also realize that for a 66 hydration with caputo pizzeria you are going to need to be able to do a very fast bake, close to 1 minute.  I don't know if your oven can go that fast, but if so try this again!  If your oven does 2 minute bakes just lower that hydration.

Also realize that at a really high hydration like this (for caputo) you are going to have to knead the dough more than usual.  A wet dough does not form gluten strands as fast as a dryer one.

All you have do do is go to naples to see that a wild yeasted dough with high hydration and caputo pizzeria flour is amazing!


Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2007, 02:19:01 PM »
Thanks again for the translations.

I just rolled the Caputo pizzeria dough that I made yesterday.  Seems a little on the wet side....Iaquone looked better at this hydration and stage....I will start baking the pies around 11:30, more info then.

Oh, I brought a camera.

-E

It is absolutely normal for caputo pizzeria flour to seem on the wet side when compared to most other pizza flours.  This is why it is typical to see lower hydrations for this flour.

Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2007, 02:23:57 PM »
Still, don't get me wrong Shango.  I am eagerly anticipating all of your experiments with other flours.  I had not even heard of Iaquone before you mentioned it and I am definitely very excited to try out new products for evaluation.  Thanks for bringing your experiments to the forum!

Right now I have 50lb bags (most already half gone) of:

All Trumps
KA Bread
San Filice
Caputo pizzeria
Full Strength
Rex Royal
Harvest King

and some smaller samples of the KA organic bread flour and the organic all purpose.

Offline shango

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2007, 10:55:31 PM »
Scottr,  I appreciate all of your suggestions and comments.  Any information is good info.

Here is the thing,  I make pizza professionally, about 333 days a year actually. 
I have been experimenting with wild yeast (caught here in the pizzeria) for about the last 6 months.

I have had very consistent results with a twelve hour room temp rise,  With iaquone flour.

The Caputo is less predictable in my experiments.  Could be me. Also I was trying a 18 hour rise yesterday...The starter devoured the dough to quickly.


anyway, thanks for the input, it's appreciated.

Cheers,
-E
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Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2007, 03:05:37 AM »
Shango, I didn't mean to question your abilities. I am very excited to have a professional pizzaiolo here contributing to the forum.  I was just surprised by some of your comments. I have found caputo pizzeria flour to react perfectly for room temp fermentations, but I usually go for at least 18 hours with wild yeast.  I have made at least 150 batches of dough with caputo and this configuration, of course not with the large batch sizes that you must do.  I basically try to do some sort of mixing/proofing/recipe/ingredient experiment every single day that I am in town. So far caputo is my favorite, but I love the search for a better pizza.  I can't wait to try the iaquone.  Thanks for brininging it to our attention!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 03:17:43 AM by scott r »

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2007, 06:45:37 AM »
Scott,

I am sure everyone has his/her own preferences and that is the reason behind using a type of flour.

In my opinion for example, the Iaquone flour  used in pizzeria is more like San Felice (I mean stronger "W" and with less flavour) and therefore not ideal to use for MY PIZZA or what I consider to be the best pizza ever.

Ciao

Offline David

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2007, 08:59:59 AM »
As someone who hasn't done  much experimentation (Due to being somewhat satisfied) with different flours,i'm interested to know if you think the flavor produced by Caputo Blue is attainable with other flours.I was always under the impression that it was Caputo that particularly gave the pizza a unique flavor aside from the oven/yeast used?
                                           David
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2007, 12:18:40 PM »
Yes David,

I think Caputo Pizzeria (and also other Caputo flours) give a special flavor and color to the final product.

I have come across other flours (e.g stone grounded, organic etc) with good fllavor but without the necessary gluten qualities.

Ciao

Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2007, 12:36:42 PM »
well that stronger W in explains why shango is having an easier time with it.  While caputo may have exemplary flavor and texture it is not an easy flour to work with by any means.


Offline shango

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 02:21:44 PM »
The dough today is much better.   It wouldn't have held out for an 18 hour rise @ room temp, though...
I had to cut it short @ 15 hours.  In 4 hours we will be making pizze with it.
This is only a 1 percent start.....

Pictures will be coming....
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Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2007, 03:20:41 PM »
if it's not too sour you are going to have some very happy customers!  I wish I was in your area to enjoy your pizza.

Offline shango

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2007, 07:10:16 PM »
thankfully you are not here to see my embarrasment... :'(
SOUR is the word...
I hate being humble....
anyway, back to the drawing board.. :-[

 :'(
-E

*edit* Matzoh is not sour, is it?  If not, could someone please tell Peter....

Thanks,
-E
« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 07:27:41 PM by shango »
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Offline jimd

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2007, 06:36:25 PM »
Just a quick report in this thread that I was lucky enough to try one of the naturally levened pizze that Edan ("Shango") has been experimenting with.

Edan is responsible for the tremendous pizza at 2 Amys in DC. He has posted recently about trying out differant variations on making dough with wild yeast that he captured in the restaurant.

Well, last night, I swung by his place to pick up a couple of pizze to bring home to my wife (I live in the DC area), and my timing could not have been better. Edan had just shaped a pizza skin using naturally levened dough that he indicated had undergone a room temp rise of 21 hours. On the peel, it looked perfect---thin with great bubbles around the distinctly formed corniche.

He distributed a little marinara and thin garlic slices on it, and into the oven it went. In a very short time (certainly less than two minutes, but I was'nt counting), a fantastic pizza come out. It had a puffed up rim, and was ultra ultra thin. Normal blistering and charring, as per his usual pizza.

The taste? Truly fantastic. Differant than anything I have had before. There was a distinct but very thin "crisp" when biting into it. The inside was like a delicate cream. The taste was not at all sour, but more complex and subtle than the other dough. The most lasting impression is one of liteness--I ate nearly the whole pizza in the car on the way home because I wanted to eat it warm. I could have eaten another.

On a bad day, Edan makes the best pizza I have ever had, and yesterday he hit a new level.

Hats off---I think he is the type of guy that, however good it is, he will challenge himself to try and make it better.

Thanks Edan for letting me try it!

Jim


Offline scpizza

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2007, 03:29:48 PM »
Shango, I'm curious what hydration you are using for this pizza.  The 1% (of water?) starter you mentioned makes sense for a 15 hour dough not to over-rise, and I'm guessing even then your salt % is high.

Offline shango

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2007, 08:29:12 AM »
scpizza,
Using Iaquone tonda per pizze, I am running around a 65 Percent hydration or higher, depending on ambient humidity.  1 percent of water for starter.   salt has been a little on the light side but I am working more into the recipe...water temperature has a lot to do with it as well....


Jim,
Thanks for the kind words. I am glad you like the pizza. 
-E
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Offline scpizza

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2007, 09:28:17 AM »
Using Iaquone tonda per pizze, I am running around a 65 Percent hydration or higher, depending on ambient humidity.  1 percent of water for starter.   salt has been a little on the light side but I am working more into the recipe...water temperature has a lot to do with it as well....

That's an ample hydration, your Iaquone flour may indeed be able to handle it better than Caputo.  Do you let the dough rise exposed to the air or in a sealed container?  I'm finding in a dry environment that makes a difference.

Also I've been experimenting with salt.  I'm finding that 1% is too low, resulting in a fast rise and lack of salt tang in the dough.  Above 3% nicely slows the rise but leaves the crust starting to taste too salty.

I have been ignoring water temperature figuring a 14 dough hour rise at a certain temperature should overwhelm any initial water temperature, but maybe that's not the case.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 09:50:20 AM by scpizza »

Offline scpizza

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2007, 05:52:23 PM »
I have been ignoring water temperature figuring a 14 dough hour rise at a certain temperature should overwhelm any initial water temperature, but maybe that's not the case.
I think that's not the case.  I've now made several batches using chilled water and gotten much longer rise times out of them.  Nice.  Probably keeps the yeast from going ape-wild with all that flour during the mixing process.


Offline scott r

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2007, 06:00:58 PM »
In the winter months I measure the room temp, then adjust my water temp to control exactly when my dough will be ready for baking.   

In the summer I use a set water temp, but use an air conditioner to keep the room where I want it to be.

This seems to work pretty well for me.

Offline shango

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Re: caputo 00 yay or nay?
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2007, 07:37:44 PM »
In the winter months I measure the room temp, then adjust my water temp to control exactly when my dough will be ready for baking.  

In the summer I use a set water temp, but use an air conditioner to keep the room where I want it to be.

This seems to work pretty well for me.
In the winter months I measure the room temp, then adjust my water temp to control exactly when my dough will be ready for baking.  

In the summer I use a set water temp, but use an air conditioner to keep the room where I want it to be.

This seems to work pretty well for me.

sounds almost perfect..
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