Author Topic: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco  (Read 38388 times)

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Offline Peteg

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #100 on: August 29, 2007, 08:57:41 AM »
Marc,  I'll be interested to see how your experiments turn out in your brick oven.  Have you posted pictures of the oven yet?  I'd sure like to see that as well.  I can't say for sure weather the Giusto's is malted or bromated but Scott R seemed to think that it was not bromated back on page 2 of this thread.  The one thing that I do notice with Giusto's is that it definitely takes on a leopard char effect in my oven.  I removed the Giusto's from my last experiment simply because I was trying to get closer to the Pizzeria Bianco dough which has a more even char.  As for the usability of the dough after a certain point, I typically try to use this type of dough within 3 days.  I've found that a 2-3 refridgerated rise yields the best product.  After 5-6 days it's definitely going to start getting a little to stretchy.  Good luck. Pete G.


Offline Boy Hits Car

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #101 on: August 29, 2007, 09:47:59 AM »
Peteg,

I was hoping to somewhat replicate your preferment dough and I'm trying to figure out the baker's percent for your yeast.

I know your hydration is 63% and salt is 2.32% and that you combine half the flour with all of the water and 1 gram of cake yeast.  I believe you stated that you make a bulk and divide it into individual dough balls that are about 230 grams for a 12" pizza.  How many dough balls does your bulk make?  This will help me determine the amount of yeast you use.  Anything else you might want to add would be appreciated.  Thanks

- Mike

Offline Peteg

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #102 on: August 29, 2007, 11:04:52 PM »
Mike,
        I used the following amounts for the last batch of dough.  After the dough was finished kneading, it went straight into the fridge for a 12 hour bulk rise.  After that, I portioned it out and threw it back into the fridge.  That amount of dough makes three 230 gram dough balls and two 90 gram balls that I use for focaccia throughout the week.  I took the following pictures tonight to show this dough after a 3.5 day fridge rise.  Hope this helps.


Flour         560.00
Water       350.00
Salt       13.00   
Cake Yeast            1.00
Total       924.00

Offline Boy Hits Car

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #103 on: August 30, 2007, 12:31:59 PM »
Thanks Peteg.

Offline giotto

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #104 on: September 08, 2007, 08:50:39 PM »
Abatardi:

You asked how long Chris kneads his dough.  A whopping 20 minutes.  Now think about that.  Peter R "watched" him make his dough employing 50 lbs of Giusto's flour in a big bowl with salt, yeast & water as mentioned earlier. And using just his hands, Chris was done 20 minutes later. Now that doesn't leave a whole lot of time for a rest period while making the dough, considering that he is working with 50 lbs by hand. Hence, it's gotta be staged during this 20 minutes. Reinhart commented that he left it sit for several hours at Room Temp, at which time he divided it out into smaller pieces for pizza & bread. He shaped his loaves and left them out for his brother; and put the rest in the refrigerator for the night's pizza.

Regarding Giusto's flour, widespreadpizza was wondering about the use of malt in Giusto's flour, which extracts sugar from the starches for browning purposes. Their Organic flour is "not" malted. Others can be malted. Two examples: Their Artisan Unbleached Baker's flour is made of Hard Red Winter Wheat, 11.5% protein, and is malted. Their Bakers Choice Organic Bread flour, also unbleached, is made of the same winter wheat, same protein; but is NOT malted.

Regarding Tomatoes, Chris contracts with American Farmers to grow equal quality to his canned tomatoes, which are elongated San Marzano tomatoes, grown near Naples & Salerno from the Campania region of Southern Italy. This too is according to Peter R (under the toppings section in his American Pie book).  I've found that local growers are always a good source; but even with my preference for Heirlooms right now, there are many types & their tastes can vary for a given type from farmers in my area that range in 120 miles apart. It's worth seeking out favorites at local farmers markets.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 08:54:29 PM by giotto »

Offline dean0216

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2007, 06:24:53 AM »
Well I first heard about Chris Bianco in Peter Reinhart's "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" and then in his new book "America Pie".  Both are awesome books and the difference in the dough is cold water fermentation and immediate refrigeration.  People just love this crust.  The cold water technique works great for focaccia and ciabatta also.  This is called "PAIN a l'ANCIENNE" named after a French baker.  So if you have not heard of these books they are a must buy.  So while I am sure his pizzas rock, I will spend more time making my own special pie using similar techniques.  I think the difference is passion so try this formula and I assure you success.  Keep the passion flowing!

-Dean.

Offline Peteg

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #106 on: March 03, 2008, 11:22:28 PM »
I've been reading the Pizza Raquel thread lately and decided start mixing flours again.  This pizza was made with 33% High Gluten Flour and 66% Caputo.  The high gluten was from the local UBake store.  The dough had a cold rise of 2.5 days and about 2.5 hours to rise on the counter before baking.  Cook time was just under 3 minutes.  Surprisingly, this crust turned out a little softer than the 100% Caputo.  I did use the normal 24 hour preferment but next time I think I'll use a more traditional ciabatta style biga to try and squeeze a little more flavor out of the dough.  Pete G.

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2009, 12:53:09 AM »
Here's a video of Chris making pizza. Very entertaining and informative. At 4:45 he mentions that he uses a very wet dough.



   Villa Roma

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #108 on: April 17, 2009, 12:57:36 AM »
Here's a video of Chris making pizza on the Jimmy Kimmel show. Very entertaining and informative. At 4:45 he mentions that he uses a very wet dough.



   Villa Roma


Offline aeneas1

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2009, 01:55:50 AM »


thanks for the link, great vid! just wish someone would have duct taped jimmy's mouth prior to the segment so that we could have heard more from bianco! btw that oven looks like it hadsa ceramic floor - lots of reflections....

.....


Offline Jraducha

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2009, 02:36:38 AM »
I just was on the phone with Larry from Ohio about this thread.  He asked me if I saw it and responded, "Nope".  After we got off the phone I had to check this out.  I have been eating at Bianco's for years.  Great guy.

I read the whole thread and I wanted to touch on the Olive Oil.  Chris is getting it from Queen Creek.  It is a special blend. Not available on the "shelf".  It is one of Perry Rea's private press labels.  It is not the "Tuscan" blend that can be bought from Queen Creek.  I have picts of the private label that I will include in this post.
http://gallery.me.com/jraducha/100056/DSCN0912/web.jpg?ver=12434906190001
http://gallery.me.com/jraducha/100056/DSCN0913/web.jpg?ver=12434906150001
http://gallery.me.com/jraducha/100056/DSCN0914/web.jpg?ver=12434906150001

As for the flour.  I believe he is using Giusto's flour.  A special mill just for him. It is cut finer, or has a higher protien.  He is not a fan of Caputo "00".  We have had many talks about this.  I believe he "cuts" his guistos flour with a very inexpensive Cysco flour.  The man is a scientist. He knows how protein works in dough.  I am pretty sure he does a 18 hour ferment and is not a fan of retarded fermentation.  I also think the dough balls are about 280-290 grams (9-10 ounce).  As for hydration, he is at about 73 percent.  You can see when he handles the dough it is very wet.  It isnt the 65% I use in my oven at home.  I can tell you that.

As for his oven.  Its HOT!  I know for sure he is using Pecan, but I think there might be a bit of Oak in there.  The oven runs at about 900 degrees.  You walk past the oven and you can feel the heat!  He gets his wood cut so precise too.  The pieces are great size.  Small.  You can tell he has superstitions cause he always knocks the pieces together before putting in the oven.  Knocks them 2 times or so, two pieces, always.

The whole tomatoes he uses are from Mesa Arizona.  I thought for a while he was using EuroFresh from Wilcox, but I can not conform this.

In the past, the guy he bought canned tomatoes from was under strict guidelines that Bianco was the ONLY one to get these tomatoes and when the pallets were delivered NO cans could be missing.

He buys a ton of veg from McClendon.  Great farmer here in AZ.

For his sausages, he used to make them in house, not a company does it for him.  Its called Shriners.  Not sure on the spelling, but I get stuff from there all the time.  Great place.

Ill add to this if I can think of any more.

Offline Jraducha

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2009, 02:39:59 AM »
Something else I would like to add, I believe more credit needs to be given to Marco Bianco. He makes Pizzeria Bianco what it is almost as much as Chris.  He is the guy in the background doing a TON of work.

Chris's utility peel is a Zio Peppe.  Titanium.  Nice. I have been trying to get him in to GI Metal.....

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2009, 11:02:38 AM »
Jraducha.....Great post. It sounds like you've spent a great deal of time with Chris. Do you know how long it takes him to bake his pizzas? At 900 degrees I would think it would be about 2 minutes or so but I've read that he lets them go for around 4 minutes.

   Thanks, Villa Roma

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2009, 11:33:06 AM »
Do you know how long it takes him to bake his pizzas? At 900 degrees I would think it would be about 2 minutes or so but I've read that he lets them go for around 4 minutes.
Bianco is a magician, but in my experience, 4 minutes @ 900F is way overcooked, even with 73% hydration. I'd be interested in the answer to your question.

Bill/SFNM

Offline scpizza

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2009, 12:16:53 PM »
Thanks for sharing your insights Jraducha, really good stuff.  When Chris and I spoke he talked more philosophy, but it seems you've had much more tactical discussions!

The over-the-top hydration is interesting and helps explain to me how open his crusts are.  I'm speculating it's made possible by the particular flours he's using plus his kneading and maturation regimen in the dry AZ air.

Offline scott r

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #115 on: May 28, 2009, 09:08:18 PM »
I think he must change things all the time.  I know that when I was there they were definitely not under 4 minute pizzas, and the dough was not nearly that wet (or as wet as what is shown on the Jimmy Kimmel clip).   The tomatoes he gave me were italian.   He told me that it was not high gluten, but medium protein (bread) flour. 

Offline Jraducha

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2009, 04:40:59 AM »
I doubt that pie is in there more then 2.5 min.  4 seems excessive.  He is running that oven HOT. He also has a side kick helping him out.  As Bianco makes, the sidekick is turning pies.  Ill take some picts the next time I am in.  Better yet, Ill time it.

Bianco also states that the pies he makes at the beginning of the "shift" are different the ones at the end of the night. Lets talk about that.  The floor of his oven is black by the end of the night.  I have never seen him brush his oven during service.  Always just working the utility peel.

Offline abatardi

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #117 on: May 29, 2009, 07:53:50 AM »
As Bianco makes, the sidekick is turning pies. 

I want a sidekick.   >:D

Private press / private label olive oil, specially canned tomatoes, a custom flour grind AND a sidekick... Chris is sounding more like a superhero every day.

- aba
Make me a bicycle CLOWN!

Offline scpizza

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #118 on: May 29, 2009, 09:16:16 AM »
Bianco also states that the pies he makes at the beginning of the "shift" are different the ones at the end of the night. Lets talk about that.  The floor of his oven is black by the end of the night. 

I see the same thing with pizzas made further into service coming out better.  My hypothesis is that it's related to stone temperature and moisture differences.

The black floor would have to be from scorched flour and bottom char remnants.

Offline Tiramisu

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #119 on: June 24, 2009, 12:32:40 AM »
I would like to make a Chris Bianco Sonny Boy with salami and gaeta olives. Anybody have an idea of what type of salami he uses? There are so many different types of salami that I can never figure out what to get.

I have experimented with making one of his Rosa sauceless pies (red onion, reggiano, rosemary, crushed pistachios) and it turned out fairly well. I had to use quite a bit of olive oil otherwise it was very dry. The Rosa is a great combo but I still think I am missing something key on these sauceless pies. I think the Bianco Wiseguy (roasted onion, fennel sausage, smoked mozz) does not have sauce on it either but I am not sure.

Thanks


 

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