Author Topic: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco  (Read 46467 times)

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Offline Tiramisu

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #125 on: July 09, 2009, 06:46:24 PM »
I made three of Biancos combinations the other day and two came out fantastic and one "not bad". 

I had to special order the Gaeta olives for the Sonny Boy as I could not find them around here. I used sopressata which was not great but acceptable. The sopressata I used was a bit too chewy and the flavor a little bland. The olives where very tasty however. The pie will need more work. I definetly need to find a better salami. The sauce recipe I used is the standard one found in the Forno Bravo newsletter using marzanos, sea salt, dried oregano and pepper. I have had great luck with the organic Bella Terra brand.

The Rosa came out the best and was a big hit. The key to this one was how much olive oil to use otherwise it can turn out fairly dry. I used the standard blend from Queens Creek which I believe is called Tuscan or Tuscon. This olive oil really made the difference and was super fresh as it was pressed in May. Deshelling the pistachios takes awhile but this pie really is exceptional flavor wise and is worth the time. Using rosemary right off the vine is definetly the way to go. The stuff sold at the store has way less flavor.

The Biancoverde was the third one and it was very tasty as well. The blend of fresh mozz, ricotta, and reggiano is really nice. I did put too much olive oil on this one as it was dripping wet but it was still very tasty with a whopping amount of baby arugula on top.

The dough was 18 hour bulk ferment Caputo/Ischia with 5 hour proof and 240 gram balls using Bills recipe. I going to try Guistos flour soon.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 06:48:25 PM by Tiramisu »

Offline Tiramisu

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #126 on: July 15, 2009, 12:29:01 PM »
Last night I made another Biancoverde and a Wiseguy. This time I was careful with the amount of olive oil on the Biancoverde and it came out exceptional. I have always used too much cheese and never knew exactly how much to use. After reading the article on Bianco in the May issue of Martha Stewart Living I noticed he used roughly 4 ounces of cheese per 12" pie. My pies are always around 11" so I decided to weigh the cheese and go with 100g per pie and get more scientific.

The Wiseguy is probably my favorite pie besides the Rosa. My wife roasted the onions in the oven and cooked up some fennel sausage. She formed the sausage into a roll and it came out well but we will use a hotter blend next time as it was not spicy enough.

The dough was my best ever after messing with this hobby for a year and a half. This time I watched the starter until I was really sure it was fully activated. I had to feed it twice before it took off. This process took about 4-5 hours.  I mixed up the dough using Bills recipe again and for the first time did not add any commercial yeast which I had been doing with Varasanos recipe. I hand mix as do not have a mixer. I dissolve the sea salt (very coarse italian) in purified water then add 75% of the flour and let it hydrate for 30 mins. Then add the starter and slowly mix in the rest of the flour.  I then let it rest for a bit then knead for about 20-30 minutes using 5 minute knead, 1 minute rest sessions. I still do not have a clear idea on when I should stop kneading. This is one area I could really could use some help!

This time I decided not to wait a specific time before proofing. Normally I use 18-24 hours but this time I just waited on the dough and it took roughly 35 hours before it was fully risen and ready to go. My home is fairly cold most of the time so that must be it. I formed 240g balls and tossed them into the proofing box for 5 hours before forming the rounds.

After watching Bianco on Youtube I was very careful forming the rounds and used his gravity only method entirely as to not disturbe the bubbles. To my surprise this worked very well and I barely handled the dough at all. Before I was using both my hands in the middle to stretch it out while spinning it on the work surface..not sure what method that is called.

I powered up the oven and waited until the stone reached 800 (cleaning cycle) and tossed in the Wiseguy. The bake time was 2.25 minutes. The pie was delicious and the crust had incredible structure.  The Biancoverde crust turned out much better however and I am not exactly sure why as the baking time was identical. I am thinking the stone may have been hotter. The crust had a snap to it.

Working on the Bianco pies has increased my skills by tenfold
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 12:49:47 PM by Tiramisu »

Offline A-Neibs

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #127 on: March 09, 2011, 10:32:07 PM »
I'm new to this website, and just found this topic in a search I did. What a great topic to discuss! I wanted to bring up something that hasn't really been brought up much in here. What does Chris do for his sauce? Does he cook it before he puts it on the pizza? I just ate there the other day, but I had a hard time trying to figure it out. Does anyone have any idea what he puts in his sauce? Does he use oregano, basil, or anything like that?

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #128 on: March 09, 2011, 11:33:35 PM »
I'm new to this website, and just found this topic in a search I did. What a great topic to discuss! I wanted to bring up something that hasn't really been brought up much in here. What does Chris do for his sauce? Does he cook it before he puts it on the pizza? I just ate there the other day, but I had a hard time trying to figure it out. Does anyone have any idea what he puts in his sauce? Does he use oregano, basil, or anything like that?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3654.0.html . Great read.

Online scott r

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #129 on: March 10, 2011, 10:40:47 AM »
Chris gave me a can of his tomatoes, which were an italian san marzano.   Unfortunately I forget the brand, but I remember pete taylor buying a case of them to try out.   Both of us decided that while they were excellent tomatoes, we actually both had other brands that we each personally preferred.     At the pizzeria chris' sauce was very simple just like most pizzerias.   I would be very surprised if it was cooked first, as it did have a nice fresh flavor.    I think the only additives I noticed was salt and maybe maybe a tiny touch of sugar, but I am not sure about the latter.    If you go to your local stores and buy a number of italian tomatoes (don't have to be san marzanos, just italian) you will no doubt find a tomato that will let you make a very similar sauce.   Good luck with your quest, and report back to the forum with your favorite tomato after testing!     

Offline Jraducha

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #130 on: April 04, 2011, 02:22:41 AM »

Offline Jraducha

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #131 on: April 06, 2011, 10:25:22 AM »
I am 99 percent sure the wise guy has red sauce on it.  Great pie..

I was wrong.  No red sauce.  Had one last night.

Offline Ogwoodfire

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #132 on: June 02, 2016, 09:33:09 PM »
I recently decided to give cloning this pizza a try with the information from this thread and th ingredients I have available to me. This one being naturally leavened.

Online jeff v

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #133 on: June 02, 2016, 09:57:33 PM »
Looks great, how'd you like it? Is that a GM bread flour? You're going for a hybrid type style at your BandM right?
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Offline jsaras

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #134 on: June 02, 2016, 11:00:58 PM »
Bianco's pizza isn't naturally leavened.  Making a Lehmann preferment dough without oil will get you good seats at the ballpark.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Ogwoodfire

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #135 on: June 02, 2016, 11:46:03 PM »
Thanks guys. I realize Biancos Dough isn't naturally leavened but I didn't have any commercial yeast in my house so I figured why not like this. This was definitely a hybrid style. I used a blend of flours to end up around 12.8% protein and went for a 3 minute bake around 725 degrees. The pizza turned out great there are a few things I would change just to personal preference.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 11:50:45 PM by Ogwoodfire »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #136 on: June 02, 2016, 11:51:52 PM »
Looks good.   How was the crust and crumb?  Was it really soft and light?


Offline Ogwoodfire

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #137 on: June 03, 2016, 07:26:31 AM »
Chau,

Very soft at light but also very crispy on the outside. Wether it's Bianco like or not I really enjoyed it. Iam trying to create something unique and my end goal is something between Motorino and Bianco. I will definitely be doing some more experimenting in the 700-750 degree range. I have a few types of bread flour as well as Caputo Rinforzata I'll be playing with to get the desired texture. You have quite a bit of experience doing this, correct? What are your observations?

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #138 on: June 03, 2016, 08:51:32 AM »
I'll sure be interested in this too...soft and light but with a crisp outside sounds amazing. The 700-750 zone  is a favorite place for me, but I'd like to be sure there's minimal to zero bottom char ( personally I love it but my wife is char-averse   and she'll eat every drop of my pies except for the black parts .... peel off all the "good stuff" right up to the char (To me, the char is the good stuff, but In understand that's not unusual here on the board :-D )

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #139 on: June 03, 2016, 09:15:55 AM »
That is a darn good Pie Sir Ogwood  :drool:

How was the under carriage?
Are you baking on the Biscotto?
Regards Mo

Offline Ogwoodfire

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #140 on: June 03, 2016, 02:27:09 PM »
Thanks Mo! While I dint get any pics the undercarrge was well browned with some char spots. It help up extremely well and did not bend without cracking. This was cooked on the Saputo Biscotto.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #141 on: June 03, 2016, 02:36:50 PM »
I think that pizza has a great rustic look.
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Offline Ogwoodfire

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #142 on: June 03, 2016, 02:47:31 PM »
Thanks Craig! I liked it a lot. The next one im going for a little less crunch.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #143 on: June 03, 2016, 03:33:10 PM »
Chau,

Very soft at light but also very crispy on the outside. Wether it's Bianco like or not I really enjoyed it. Iam trying to create something unique and my end goal is something between Motorino and Bianco. I will definitely be doing some more experimenting in the 700-750 degree range. I have a few types of bread flour as well as Caputo Rinforzata I'll be playing with to get the desired texture. You have quite a bit of experience doing this, correct? What are your observations?

It's been a few years since I've made this style.   But I'm pretty sure mine weren't as nice looking as yours.  That's a really good looking pie.  It looks perfect.   Less crunch?  It's perfect! :D it's definitely more rustic than Biancos.  His crumb is really tender from what I can remember.  Your pie looks excellent tho.  Makes me want to revisit this style. 

Offline Ogwoodfire

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #144 on: June 03, 2016, 11:17:51 PM »
Thank you Chau. It was fun trying something different. We have been getting crushed on the food truck with our NP style pies I needed to try something else.

Online CaptBob

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #145 on: June 03, 2016, 11:50:30 PM »
This is all right in my ballpark. Can't wait to see what you come up with Jay!!

I love a little crispiness (sp?) with a soft crumb. This was a Caputo Pizzeria pie baked at 720.....apologies for posting a pic in your thread but....we're on the same page I think.......
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 12:03:49 AM by CaptBob »
Bob

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #146 on: June 04, 2016, 07:25:30 AM »
Ah , see that's really interesting, Bob..Even after seeing your pies for so lonng, I guess it  didn't register that these were straight 00 pies bakes in low 700's . I was thinking to successfully bake this flour it  had to be 800 or above....


Tender yet crisp..oh yes, that is perfect





 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #147 on: June 04, 2016, 09:54:30 AM »
it  didn't register that these were straight 00 pies bakes in low 700's . I was thinking to successfully bake this flour it  had to be 800 or above....

Not at all Bill.   I've been saying this for years.  Caputo 00 is just another flour.  Hydration, gluten strength, & bake times can be adjusted to give whatever desire result you want.  Scott123 and I disagreed over this and I had to make a video to prove it.  NY pizza made with Caputo 00 producing a tender and soft crumb without the use of oil in the dough.  Even after I posted the video and Scott had to eat his words, we still have tons of members who choose to believe the lie that Caputo 00 makes a tough crumb if baked more than 2min.   It's ppl that don't know how to manipulate the dough that keep spreading this nonsense.  Even when confronted with the truth members were telling me, well only you can do it but most can't.  Lol.  What kind of nonsense is that?  You can't do it because you have already determined it to fail.  Don't believe the hype.   

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #148 on: June 04, 2016, 10:04:18 AM »
This is great to know, Chau!


That's going to be one of the next things I play with..I've only had the Anna 00, which I think is probably just fine, but Norma gave me some Caputo Pizzeria to try, so I'll keep the BS (Blackstone LOL) busy! After last week's sliding-shrimp- pizza-on-driveway fiasco, I'm ready for some smooth sailing :-D


One question going into this..I usually use a poolish for pizza..I was  also  under the impression that with 00,  either a) it wouldn't work, or b) it was unnecessary .but now I realize Capt Bob is doing it all l the time, My question would be, is it as effective a technique with unmalted, as with malted flours..or is it a step that doesn't have as much payoff?


In the original post Ogwoodfire noptes that he's using a hybrid and coming in around 12.6, if I ecall. That's not appreciably different from Cap 00 Pizz, right?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 10:07:08 AM by Jersey Pie Boy »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineer Pizza Bianco
« Reply #149 on: June 04, 2016, 10:13:44 AM »
Not at all Bill.   I've been saying this for years.  Caputo 00 is just another flour.  Hydration, gluten strength, & bake times can be adjusted to give whatever desire result you want.  Scott123 and I disagreed over this and I had to make a video to prove it.  NY pizza made with Caputo 00 producing a tender and soft crumb without the use of oil in the dough.  Even after I posted the video and Scott had to eat his words, we still have tons of members who choose to believe the lie that Caputo 00 makes a tough crumb if baked more than 2min.

I vaguely remember that discussion, notwithstanding, I'd don't remember many people citing lack of tenderness as a reason not to use Caputo at lower temps. My memory is that most of the time it's suggested that Caputo isn't the best choice, the oven in question maxes out at 550F or less.
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