Author Topic: Threw out all the rules  (Read 5909 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2007, 05:29:52 PM »
rdb,

I have been testing out a preferment dough calculating tool and thought I would try to use it to convert your dough formulation to baker's percents. However, when I added up the weights of all the ingredients you used, after subtracting 20 grams of flour you said went unused, I got a total dough batch weight of around 1100 grams (670 g. flour, plus 70 g. starter, plus 5.58 g. salt, plus 355 g. water). Your figure was 903 g., or a difference of about 198 g. Is it possible that you made five dough balls rather than four or did I miss something somewhere?

Peter


Offline rdb

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 07:17:02 PM »
I pre-measured 4 cups of flour at 690g . Weighed it twice. Then, 1 1/2 cups of water - 355g (weighed it twice), then the Starter at 70g (weighed it twice). All this because I wanted to be as careful as a chemist for you.

Then to a bowl I added the starter and the 1 1/2 cups water, plus 1 cup of the flour. Left it one hr. in the proof box , loosely covered, at 85 degrees. 

 Dumped that in a KA  bowl and mixed...no splashin either. Incorporated about 2 1/2 cup of the premeasured flour into the mix. Maybe got a tablespoon or two of the flour around the mixer. That makes about 3 1/2 cups total so far. Dashed in 4tsp of water while mixing.
 Remainder of the flour (about half a cup) I dumped on a clean countertop, and put my mixer bowl of dough onto the counter, and handkneaded the ball. Incorporating the remaining flour.

When I was done I weighed the ball. My brand spanky new digital scale said 903g total (weighed it twice).  I scooped up the bit of flour on the countertop that was not incorporated, and it weighed 20g! See...I was still trying to be a chemist for you. So.....690-20=670g flour +355g water +70g starter + 5g salt=1100g total. Absolutely Agree..  At the end of that I had one ball of dough.

From the ball that weighed 905g, I made 4 balls weighing 251,230,227,198g, for a total of 908g.  I weighed each one twice. There was a dusting of flour on the counter as I made the balls. (explains the 5g difference.)

  This is twice I reproduced this silly experiment, and both times came up with similar numbers. I Cannot explain the mysteries you find...But the proof is in the puddin'....I mean pizza.

 Either there are evil gremlins in my house, messin' with my kharma, or the "String theory" really exists, and there are alternate dimensions.
 I don't think you can lose much water in the proof box, but a few grams loss is possible.  And I was scrupulous measuring things out, even resetting the scale each time.

  BTW...measurements, scaling,  calculations, and algorithms have been strategic in every career I ever had...from builder to Network Analyst, to Potter, to whatever it is I am today... and so far, nobody has accused me of walking out of the house with no pants on...

Thank you for all your efforts, Pete.
Reproduce this experiment at your own risk. The pies were excellent...and no..I didn't weigh them....I ate them... lol



Offline November

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 10:17:54 PM »
All this because I wanted to be as careful as a chemist for you.

Actually, rdb, a chemist (or any scientist in general) weighs all the instruments and implements that come into contact with the substances before and after the process to account for every gram, but even a general account shouldn't have that large of a discrepancy.  Even when I'm in a hurry and not particularly careful, my final dough weight still comes within a gram of the sum of my ingredients' weight.  Most of the time it's right on the money, and it's only off by a gram when I sift the flour vigorously and imprecisely to allow some to fall on the rim of the mixing bowl.  Here's what stands out for me based on what you described.  Your flour weight per cup is incredibly high and your finished weight is much lower than it should be given your ingredients' individual weights.  One problem nearly cancels out the other, as the difference could retroactively adjust the flour weight per cup to 123.25g, which is far more normal.  In addition, just between sentences the dough seemed to change its weight: "My brand spanky new digital scale said 903g total (weighed it twice). [...] From the ball that weighed 905g"  Then it changed again within just a few more words: "I made 4 balls weighing 251,230,227,198g, for a total of 908g"  251 + 230 + 227 + 198 = 906  The only conclusion I can draw from your posts thus far is that the accounting in your recounting seems suspect.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2007, 10:37:17 AM »
November,

Since the quantities given for the water, starter and salt seem to be credible, that leaves only the flour weight as suspect. To rule out the tare function as a probable cause, maybe rdb can use the tip that you once gave me, that is, put the measuring cup on the scale while the scale is off, and then turn the scale on. The display should read 0 grams at that point and the flour can then be measured out and weighed. I would do likewise for the measuring cup used to weigh the starter. If the flour weights still come out high, then I am stumped because I can't get as much flour in a leveled measuring cup as rdb can.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2007, 11:12:23 AM »
Peter,

Tare avoidance is only meant to reclaim a couple missing, or discard a couple extraneous, grams.  The tare trick is not going to account for 197g in this case.  I would sooner calibrate the cup using water to note the exact volume.  It's possible that the cup is a 1.5 cup measuring cup with a 1 cup marking on the inside wall and indicates "1 Cup" on the handle.  I have one of those (as well as a 1.5 tablespoon with a 1 tablespoon marking).

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2007, 11:20:54 AM »
November,

I was thinking that somewhere the measuring cup wasn't being tared out for some reason, and that the tip would rule that out.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Threw out all the rules
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2007, 11:37:06 AM »
Peter,

It's a valid assumption, but the evidence does not suggest a tare issue.  Like I said, I would sooner verify the volume of his measuring cup.  By verifying the weight of 1 cup of water, up to two things can be ascertained: volume and possibly tare error (unless on the freak chance the tare error is the exact weight of 0.5 cup water).

- red.november