Author Topic: Tonights pizza  (Read 11034 times)

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Offline Randy

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Tonights pizza
« on: July 09, 2004, 07:29:19 PM »
Went back to 12 min of kneading on the old KitchenAid and went back to 120-130F water.  The higher temp water gets you the big bubbles in the crust.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 07:29:44 PM by Randy »


Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2004, 07:30:57 PM »
Cooked on a screen for 8 min, no stone.

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2004, 09:45:10 PM »
is that still with an overnight rise?
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Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2004, 06:28:06 AM »
Over night rise, then flattened, divided in half and reshaped into balls for a two hour rise before super.
Tasty!
Randy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2004, 07:14:20 AM by Randy »

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2004, 10:26:05 PM »
Love the bubbles. ;D
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Offline DKM

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2004, 10:34:14 PM »
Looks really good.


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Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2004, 01:39:35 PM »
I noticed when the Papa Johns people put the sauce on the pizza they stop say 2" from the outside edge of the crust.  I think I will try this next time.

Randy

Offline canadave

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2004, 05:02:06 PM »
Randy,

The distance between the outer crust edge and the start of the sauce is purely a personal preference variable, based on how much you like sauce and whether or not you like that last part of the crust to be pure dough or not :)  I personally like sauce a lot, so I end mine pretty close to the edge (around an inch or less.)

Dave

Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2004, 05:47:33 PM »
I like the sauce also and probably use more than I should but it is wonderful stuff.  In the pictures above you can see how the outer crust is stained even though I did not put any on the outer ring.  When the pizza rises in the oven, it will pull from the flat section and roll outwards, that is the reason for not going to the outer ring if that makes sense.  It makes for a more uniform outer crust appearance.

Randy


Offline canadave

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2004, 10:11:47 PM »
ah, interesting...I use a thinner crust (about 1/4 inch), so I don't notice that effect as much.

Offline DKM

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2004, 10:29:34 PM »
I like the sauce also and probably use more than I should but it is wonderful stuff.  In the pictures above you can see how the outer crust is stained even though I did not put any on the outer ring.  When the pizza rises in the oven, it will pull from the flat section and roll outwards, that is the reason for not going to the outer ring if that makes sense.  It makes for a more uniform outer crust appearance.

I had noticed that before, but had never really thought about the reason for it.

As long as it taste good  ;D
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Offline Les

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2004, 01:04:00 AM »
. . . went back to 120-130F water.  The higher temp water gets you the big bubbles in the crust.

I'm curious about that.  Do you know why that is so?

Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2004, 07:25:47 AM »
Les I follow the directions on the back of SAF perfect rise yeast package which reads, heat the liquid to 120F-130F and add that to half of the flour and other dry ingredients then I mix for 2 minutes.  The higher temperature water raises the dough temperature higher than it would if I used 70 deg water.  The higher temperature kneaded dough allows for greater yeast growth in the cooler and therefore more bubbles.
I had changed my directions to those Reinhardt suggest in his latest pizza cookbook but have gone back to my old directions because I like the bigger bubbles.

Randy

Offline Les

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2004, 10:28:49 AM »
Les I follow the directions on the back of SAF perfect rise yeast package which reads, heat the liquid to 120F-130F and add that to half of the flour and other dry ingredients then I mix for 2 minutes.  The higher temperature water raises the dough temperature higher than it would if I used 70 deg water.  The higher temperature kneaded dough allows for greater yeast growth in the cooler and therefore more bubbles.

Excuse me if I seem a little dense but do you let the yeast develop in the water first with a little sugar?  If so, do you reheat it back to 120° before adding it to the flour?

Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2004, 10:57:36 AM »
add that to half of the flour and other dry ingredients then I mix for 2 minutes.  The higher temperature water raises the dough temperature higher than it would if I used 70 deg water.  

Randy
When do you add the other half of the flour? After the mix for 2 minutes?
Pizzaholic
Is it on the instructions, I admit that I havent read the package yet. I have been doing it the PeterR way.

Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2004, 11:16:37 AM »
Mix together the salt and the flour. Pour half the mixture in the old KA mixer, add one packet SAF perfect rise yeast, set mixer to “Stir”.  Mix 120-130F water with the sugar, and honey in my case, then pour water mixture into running mixer.  Mix for two minutes while scraping the sides. Stop mixer and add the rest of the flour and Crisco or oil.  Stir until you want get a flour bath then set to knead speed 2.  On high gluten, flour 12 minutes works for me.  Remove from mixer and hand-knead with minimal flour until a ball can be formed.  Place in cooler overnight.  
I still like Rinehart’s method but I prefer a bigger bubble structure.
Randy

Offline pizzabill

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2004, 07:59:36 AM »
When I was trained at Pizza Hut, they told us to sauce to about 1 inch from the edge of crust, but more importantly, to use the cheese to "tie" the sauce to the crust by overlapping them both.

We always had "bottom cheese" and "top cheese" the bottom cheese was placed in a circle around the edge of the sauce to tie it to the crust, none on the sauce  in the middle of the pie. Then the toppings were placed, then top cheese was sprinkled over everything. This really worked to keep everything from sliding into the middle during baking/eating. I still tie my toppings to my crust edge this way!
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Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2004, 12:19:02 PM »
cool tip bill thanks..... ;D
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Offline Les

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2004, 10:19:46 PM »
Les I follow the directions on the back of SAF perfect rise yeast package which reads, heat the liquid to 120F-130F and add that to half of the flour and other dry ingredients then I mix for 2 minutes.  The higher temperature water raises the dough temperature higher than it would if I used 70 deg water.  The higher temperature kneaded dough allows for greater yeast growth in the cooler and therefore more bubbles.
I had changed my directions to those Reinhardt suggest in his latest pizza cookbook but have gone back to my old directions because I like the bigger bubbles.

Randy, I wanted to thank you for this tip.  Today I used 130° temp water, and my dough acts like it is possessed.   Attached is a pic of my dough after a couple of hours in the fridge.

Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2004, 07:18:49 AM »
Your welcome Les.  I put mine into the coller as soon as the kneading is complete then let ir rise overnight.

Randy

Offline giotto

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2004, 02:38:49 AM »
Randy:

I was happy to see the comment earlier regarding the use of a pizza screen, without a pizza stone.  I find the pizza screen to be a big plus.  First, it ensures that the entire pizza gets cooked due to the open design.  And second, by moving the pizza around in the oven, I can come up with that slightly crispy crust every time.

I took a picture of a friend holding a slice of a pizza that I cooked on a screen.  You'll see some slight black marks along the bottom of the crust.  If you don't have a screen, you can do what I did with this version of my pizza, which is to move the entire pizza (no screen or pan) right on the lowest shelf over the bottom burners for a couple of minutes.  Normally I cook the pizza at about 530 F.

I noticed that you put salt together with your yeast right off the bat.  Yeast doesn't like salt too much... it's one of the methods to slow down the yeast activity to leave the natural sugars for your palette.  I'm wondering what difference, if any, you would experience if you placed all salt to the 2nd half of your flour.  This method has been quite effective for me.

(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/slice3a.jpg)
 ::)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 04:02:03 AM by giotto »

Offline giotto

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2004, 03:57:25 AM »
I too find that by using a bit of my Grande mozzarella and shredded aged feta cheese as my final toppings, I get a much nicer presentation.  

I sure do enjoy dinner, NY style, at home with friends these days.

                                  (http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/pizza3a.jpg)  


(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/top3.jpg)  
 ::)

« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 09:35:34 AM by giotto »

Offline Randy

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2004, 11:59:53 AM »
Giotto, for years I added yeast towards the end of the process but yeast is much more tolorant these days.  Try SAF perfect rise yeast if you are still using plain active yeast.

Great pictures.

Randy
« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 02:38:41 PM by Randy »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2004, 02:04:25 PM »
Giotto,

You are basically right about salt and yeast not being entirely compatible.  Because of this, bakers have come up with possible solutions.  One solution that has been recommended (by Neapolitan pizza experts, among others) is to combine the salt and yeast with equal amounts of water in separate containers, and, similarly, divide the flour for the dough in two and put into separate containers (for a total of four containers).  The salt-water mixture is then combined and kneaded with the flour from one of the flour containers, the yeast-water mixture is combined and kneaded with the flour from the other flour container, and the two separate doughs are brought together in a final step and kneaded into a single dough ball.  

An alternative approach, one that I almost always use--no matter what a recipe says to do--is to mix and knead all of the dough ingredients except for the salt and, toward the end of the kneading process, add the salt called for in the recipe and knead a bit longer until the salt is fully incorporated.  This is a technique borrowed from professional bread makers.  What is important is not to forget to add the salt, which is easy to do in the haste to move on to the next step.  

The above applies principally to the use of wet yeasts and dry yeasts other than instant yeast.  Randy and others are correct in that it is OK to combine instant yeast with the other dry dough ingredients, including salt.  Apparently the instant yeast is more tolerant of salt than the other forms of yeast.  I have tried both approaches when using instant yeast--adding the salt last and mixing the salt with all the other dry ingredients at the beginning (usually flour, instant yeast, and sugar), and have not detected any difference in the two approaches.   From what I have read at PMQ, based on tests they have done, all of the standard forms of wet and dry yeasts operate in much the same way from the standpoint of chemisty, so there should be no noticeable differences (e.g., in fermentation or taste of the final baked crust) from using the different yeast forms.  The main difference between the various types of yeast is basically availability, convenience of use, and perishability.  I have gone entirely to instant yeast as a result of what I have read on yeast and my own personal experiences.  Of course, there will always be some who will prefer one form of yeast over another based on their palates and experiences.

Peter

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Tonights pizza
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2004, 04:47:30 PM »
Giotto,

Have you posted your recipe for your dough already? ;D
I would love to see it. I probably missed it somewhere on another thread though...
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