Author Topic: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees  (Read 2449 times)

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Offline tonyp0387

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I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« on: February 20, 2007, 06:45:36 PM »
Hi Guys

This is my first post I really need some professional advise. I saw Jeff V
piture of pizzas and they look great i want to open up a pizzeria witin a year or
two I just bought the Kitchen Aid 600 dough mixer I have a Pizza stone too

My oven only goes up to 550 degrees or something how can i make great neopolitan pizza at that temputure. I bought a sourdough starter from sour.com
the italian one you (get two of them) If some experts can help me i would greatly
appreciiate it.

1) What is the best dough recipe for Neopolitan pizza at 550 degrees?

2) Can a starter be used in a commercial setting, If your using it every other day
   to make fresh dough dont u run out doesn't it take time to grow back when   
   you add more flour too it?? How much to you need??


3)  Can you to a warm rise with your dough every night ?Is this better? i have
     never seen it doen in a commercial setting what do you just leave it on table
    cover it with a blanket or something and leave.then come back 12 hours later.

4) Im located in NJ i want a brick oven if i open up a pizzeria does anybody know
    about how much it would cost to buy and install one, all there laws by town
    Do they come in pieces and  fit in a 3' door?

Thanks to anybody who can help me out with these questions I really appreciate it.

You guys are the best

Sincerely,

Tony P











Offline abatardi

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Re: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 08:57:33 PM »
Neapolitan in 500-550 is not really going to work that well.. It will taste good but it won't be as good as or look like neapolitan pizza.. look at Bill/SFNM's post here to see what his normal dough does in a 550 degree oven: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4598.0.html

Even in my oven at around 750 I'm not happy with it (it is cooler on the top and has some cool spots elsewhere though so that hurts also). 

Starter can be used in a commercial setting, sure..  I guess if you want more consistency then that is what commercial yeast was designed for though.

Not sure exactly on the cost of the oven and other related costs, but I keep hearing the number $10k come up.

- aba







Make me a bicycle CLOWN!

Offline gschwim

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Re: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 12:18:54 AM »
Neopolitan pizza really needs a high temperature.  My first advice would be to try a New York style, which typically is baked at 450-475 degrees.

My second advice would be to try Gold Medal Harvest King flour.  No, you won't get a true Neopolitan pizza, but you will (or at least I was able to) get a light, soft crust.  Unless you're a die-hard Neoplitan-pizza fanatic (which, admittedly, many of the people on this site are, but the general public is not), the difference between a King Harvest flour normal-temperature pizza and a true Neopolitan is more than made up for with not needing to go crazy trying to achieve a high oven temperature.

Offline raji

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Re: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2007, 01:54:55 PM »
Hi Guys

This is my first post I really need some professional advise. I saw Jeff V
piture of pizzas and they look great i want to open up a pizzeria witin a year or
two I just bought the Kitchen Aid 600 dough mixer I have a Pizza stone too

My oven only goes up to 550 degrees or something how can i make great neopolitan pizza at that temputure. I bought a sourdough starter from sour.com
the italian one you (get two of them) If some experts can help me i would greatly
appreciiate it.

1) What is the best dough recipe for Neopolitan pizza at 550 degrees?

2) Can a starter be used in a commercial setting, If your using it every other day
   to make fresh dough dont u run out doesn't it take time to grow back when   
   you add more flour too it?? How much to you need??


3)  Can you to a warm rise with your dough every night ?Is this better? i have
     never seen it doen in a commercial setting what do you just leave it on table
    cover it with a blanket or something and leave.then come back 12 hours later.

4) Im located in NJ i want a brick oven if i open up a pizzeria does anybody know
    about how much it would cost to buy and install one, all there laws by town
    Do they come in pieces and  fit in a 3' door?

Thanks to anybody who can help me out with these questions I really appreciate it.

You guys are the best

Sincerely,

Tony P

Good Neapolitan-style pizzas are hard to come by at 500F.  There are things you can do to help with browning (e.g. adding oil), but you'll still end up with something a bit different.

You might consider using a grill or self-cleaning cycle to get a higher temperature.  Do this at your own risk. 

If you're serious about starting a place, you should educate yourself first--both about pizza making and the business side of things.  There's a wealth of information on this site and the people that use this forum will be willing to help you if you're willing to make the effort to learn.  Good luck.


Offline rdb

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Re: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2007, 06:38:49 PM »
this works for me...conventional 550d oven, unmodified, w/stone
refrigerated two days, room temp rise for two hrs.
worked into 11-12in circle nicely, no springback
slightly crisp bottom, soft inside

Recipe for 6 shells  w/ a 100g or so extra shell, you can adjust to make 6 larger shells, or 7 smaller ones.

907g - KA Flour
28g - Sea Salt
28g - IDY
481g - Water
550 degree oven preheated w/stone for 1 1/2 hours
dressed shell cooked on stone for 2 minutes 30 seconds
top broiler turned on at 2:30 minutes
pizza placed on top shelf  (about 6 inches) under broiler for 30 seconds

folded well without cracking bottom of shell

My next experiment will  add a few more grams of water. I want to find the exact water content for my oven...your's will vary accordingly.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 06:43:22 PM by rdb »

Offline Benbuck

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Re: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2007, 12:39:14 PM »
rdb,
That is a great looking pizza. I am new to the site and wondering, isn't 481 grams alot of water for two pounds of flour? Or am I missing something in the conversion?
Thx,
Benbuck

Yes I was missing something...sorry too much caffine this morning!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 01:54:37 PM by Benbuck »

Offline rdb

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Re: I need a great neopolatan recipe at 500 degrees
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2007, 08:21:23 AM »
Thanks for the nice words.
 I got yelled at in another thread for my numbers, so i'm a little leery of discussing them....all I know is I start out with a bottle of water, and mix the flour in very slowly, until it feels right. I have, like everyone else here, experimented with all kinds of recipes, sometimes too much water, sometimes too much flour, but never a bad pie.  It's not the recipe so much as knowing the techniques... , mixing slowly, autolysing, good ingredients, and knowing your tools.
 My oven must run hotter than most, because I hear everyone say they cook their pies a LOT longer than I do. 4 minutes in my oven usually means an overcooked pizza.
  As far as I understand the VPN recommendations, they use  less water than most say on this board. Most people are using 63-65% water...and more on some, but according to the translated version  at fornobravo.com the vpn says "The characteristic"merceologiche" of the flour used for "Pizza Napoletana" allow it to absorb from 50 to 55% of its weight in water to reach the optimal "point of pasta." The resulting dough can be individualized by the abilities of the individual pizzaiolo."
 Everyone knows, you can't cook a real Neo Pie in an unmodified conventional oven. However, I've held 6 or more Pizza parties in the past 2 months, and everyone (especially the NY'ers) loves them. Comments range from perfect crust to tasty ingredients, and they don't feel like they are eating a heavy in fat/oil pie.
 I try to use the advice of real pizzaiolos.... start with the water, add flour until it feels right. I hand knead after mixing, and make sure my oven is as hot as possible.
 Some advice from people say to give up on a Neo Pie, and just try a NY or American style with a conventional oven...add oil,or sugar, etc.  Although they are probably right, I'm stubborn, and say that feel, knowing your oven, and good ingredients make a damn good pie. And if I ever get a wood fired oven...look out.