Author Topic: Little Black Egg  (Read 343130 times)

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Offline HASassin

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1000 on: December 15, 2010, 02:21:52 AM »
why do people use kettle grills for the black eggs? - is the dome and circular shape good for heating? better than a barrel grill?

also, isnt there a propane grill on the market that can at least match or come close to the BTU s put out the by pressure cooker?
i mean why would we have to build one?

also, a kettle grill with a hinge would also be a good idea right? - less heat escapes


Offline 8-slice

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1001 on: December 15, 2010, 11:37:09 AM »
I believe it's about cubic volume of air contained. The high pressure burner forces a great deal of air through the LBE, so the initial hot air loss is no problem, because its volume is not great.

That's how you get 90-120 second pies (if that's your thing). And the circular shape also should get better airflow than barrel. Although whichever you use, they will always be better than the "pizza" you get at most pizza places...

8-slice  :chef:

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1002 on: February 18, 2011, 05:51:04 PM »
Let me preface this entire reply of mine with the following caveats:

1. I think this whole LBE thread is just about the bees knees. Like Parliament-Funkadelic landing in the Gosh-damned mothership on stage cool, capische?

2. I am clueless when it comes to thermodynamics, air flow properties, etc.

3. This has probably already been discussed and dissed as unfeasible.

4. The fact that there are, as we speak, 100 Belgian beers ON TAP, as well as that many in bottles for the annual Belgian Beer Fest a couple of blocks down the street from where I love is really just about skull-effing me right now after partaking in the festivities (and in intermission to going back for more before the kegs and casks start running out).

Blah, and blah, blah. Okay
---
It seems the challenge is always about getting air up over the pizza and out the side vent, with equalizing the temps being a worthy goal as the heat of the stone on the bottom tends to get hot, being tha the cajun cooker is placed under the grill (hence some peopel using diffusers, bowls, etc)

How well would the heat from that cooker travel up some type of ductwork or tubing so that the largest exitpoint of heat is at the top of the grill, meaning more heat over the pizza?

Is the ductwork or steel which would be tolerant of the heat too expensive?

Could you put a Y-Valve on a tank of propane and have two burners, one putting heat up through the bottom, as usually, but at a lower flame and the other jetting hot heat up through some type of ductwork and ramming hotter air than the lower burner is over the pizza?

Could something like that work, or would it just be a propane hog?

I made a super quick theoretical pic showing a ROUGH idea of what I am thinkin about (although this doesn't show a hole in the bottom...guess it would be a one burner...oh well you get the friggen point).

Thanks for entertaining my ramblings. Have a great weekend! --K :-[
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 02:50:40 PM by pizzablogger »
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1003 on: February 18, 2011, 05:51:33 PM »
How about the picture dummy?
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

buceriasdon

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1004 on: February 18, 2011, 06:32:58 PM »
When friends are over for dinner they are amazed when I tell them to place their hand a foot in front of the vent and feel the hot air rushing out. In the last minute of baking I have to turn at least twice to make sure the edge is not cremated. Note: my kettle is NOT a full sized Weber but smaller requireing perhaps more attention. I find my tile in the lid lags by about one hundred degrees F. behind the hearth tile. Close enough for me.
Don




It seems the challenge is always about getting air up over the pizza and out the side vent, with equalizing the temps being a worthy goal as the heat of the stone on the bottom tends to get hot, being tha the cajun cooker is placed under the grill (hence some peopel using diffusers, bowls, etc)

How well would the heat from that cooker travel up some type of ductwork or tubing so that the largest exitpoint of heat is at the top of the grill, meaning more heat over the pizza?

Is the ductwork or steel which would be tolerant of the heat too expensive?

Could you put a Y-Valve on a tank of propane and have two burners, one putting heat up through the bottom, as usually, but at a lower flame and the other jetting hot heat up through some type of ductwork and ramming hotter air than the lower burner is over the pizza?

Could something like that work, or would it just be a propane hog?

I made a super quick theoretical pic showing a ROUGH idea of what I am thinkin about (although this doesn't show a hole in the bottom...guess it would be a one burner...oh well you get the friggen point).

Thanks for entertaining my ramblings. Have a great weekend! --K :-[
[/quote]

Offline Tampa

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1005 on: February 20, 2011, 11:05:26 AM »
Blogger,

I love the duct idea esp if you put a butterfly valve to throttle the amount of heat going to the topside vs underside.  If you decide to embark on this quest, please share along the way.  I think you are on to something.  You might look to fireplace ducting as it is insulated between inner and outer shells, available, and inexpensive.

Dave

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1006 on: February 21, 2011, 08:37:39 AM »
From a quick look, one company offers bendable fireplace ducting which can tolerate temps up to 800F. I would imagine the heat from a propane cooker is much hotter than that.....particularly right at the exit point from the burner? And the ducting would probably need to enclose, or be very close to, the burner ring to capture and direct the most heat?

I don't know.

There is also bendable tubing, in up to 12" diameter, made of 316Ti stainless that can tolerate up to 1650F, but it gets somewhat costly as the diameter increases (up to $50-ish per foot)

http://www.ducting.com/files/Bendaway_Series_Ductng_Price_List.pdf
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Tampa

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1007 on: February 21, 2011, 02:52:57 PM »
I'm pretty sure that hot exhaust gas from a car reaches something on the order of 1450F.  Steel starts to get red hot about 1200F.  I think you are wise to plan a little headroom.

Double-wall stove pipe might put you in the ballpark.  I found this comment on a quick search.

The UL103HT chimney is tested to a maximum continuous operation temperature of 1000F and a maximum short term temperature of 2100F. That is why this type of chimney is often mistakenly referred to as 2100 Chimney.

Dave

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1008 on: February 23, 2011, 02:50:06 PM »
Thanks for the additional info Tampa.

From what I can tell, and please correct me if I am mistaken, the hole is cut in the bottom of the grill to accomodate the burner....meaning the hole is cut in a position so that it will fit the burner relatively snug...the flame goes directly into the grill bottom and the grill bottom can rest on the burner plate/support.

What about cutting a bigger hole to get the burner closer to the stone and dome?

A super quick conceptual picture, not so good (not to scale, etc):

A. The MBE set-up as it is most often constructed, with the burner/burner plate in red. The grill rests on this.

B. What if the grill were cut higher and the burner placed higher as well (red). This would of course create a hole much to wide to rest on the burner plate of a Bayou Classic. The green is a hypothetical support of some type that the grill would lay flush on for support...some type of hole would need to be cut in this support to fit the burner, but something like this should allow the burner to be moved higher and keep air from escaping the bottom as well.

Would this make the entire set-up too hot?

Finally, has anyone tried the "Double Jet" Bayou Classic burner with a 40psi regulator?

http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/sp40-bayou-classic-double-jet-propane-burner.htm

Thanks! --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1009 on: February 23, 2011, 03:40:55 PM »
PB, my lbe is such that the burner is fairly close to the stone and dome.  I'll have to remeasure and post a pic later if you want.  The advantage of this is that there is a smaller volume of air to heat up and move around.  I would think this has a concentrating effect on the air flow if the front vent is large enough allowing for higher temps.  

If the stone gets "too" hot, the user can either add in air buffers by way of buffers, heat deflectors, a secondary stone under the main stone separated by a layer of air.   Or just load pizzas at lower temps which may affect oven spring if that temp is too low.  

Another good idea which I have implemented is to put a deflector shield (of sorts) in the lid to divert the hot air coming up the backside and down onto the crust to promote charring.  

I have not tried the double jet burner, but my burner does put out 170K btu's though.

Chau


buceriasdon

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1010 on: February 23, 2011, 04:16:07 PM »
Hi PB, I've included a pic of my setup, granted mine is different than others however I don't see a need for elaborate ducting, what have you.
Don

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1011 on: February 23, 2011, 04:53:51 PM »
buceriasdon, that is the actual flames jetting up (which would hit the lid and be directed over the pizza if the lid was placed on)?

If so, Idios mio!  :o

Thanks --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

buceriasdon

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1012 on: February 23, 2011, 04:58:05 PM »
Yes, that is an actual photo, no tricks involved.
Don


buceriasdon, that is the actual flames jetting up (which would hit the lid and be directed over the pizza if the lid was placed on)?

If so, Idios mio!  :o

Thanks --K

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1013 on: February 23, 2011, 05:39:23 PM »
Yes, that is an actual photo, no tricks involved.
Don



I didn't think there were tricks, I just wanted to make sure that was actual blue flame....and not just hot air moving upwards.

Thanks Don! --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline scott123

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1014 on: February 23, 2011, 06:07:41 PM »
Kelly, instead of going through all the machinations and expenditures of directing the heat above and below via ductwork, take Muhammad to the mountain and put a burner below and a burner above. Get two of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-SP10-High-Pressure-Outdoor/dp/B000291GBQ

Attach one to a hole in the bottom and the other in a whole in the lid. On the top burner, you'll need to add a section of copper or brass tubing between the flexible tubing and the iron burner in order to take the flexible tubing away from the heat. You'll also need two steel bowls (stainless might work) to deflect the heat outwards.

No, I haven't done this, but, in theory, it should work fine. A steel and iron propane burner should function perfectly fine above another burner pumping out heat.  It's like a broiler in a gas oven.

buceriasdon

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1015 on: February 23, 2011, 07:07:06 PM »
scott123, What you are describing is an idea I laid out last year, I called it the over under burner oven. My LBE works so well for me I have not acted on my idea however. I discounted the flexible hose concept and would go with a solid gas line in for the upper burner and have the upper burner cantilevered out over the hearth stone just below the lid tile. The lid would have a tile in the top with the upper burner just below it. Even though the ramp up time might be longer my idea was to use a burner I call a star burner for the lower burner and perhaps a smaller version for the top. Maybe it's time to put my money where my mouth is.....
Don

Offline scott123

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1016 on: February 24, 2011, 07:11:04 AM »
Don, now that I see the star burner, it jogged my memory and I do recall you talking about this last year. That's probably where I got the idea from. Subconsciously driven imitation is the greatest form of flattery?  ;D

It's exceptionally difficult to test a new method when the method you're using currently works.  For instance, after being such a strong proponent for steel plate, I really wanted to go out and test it, but, being happy as a clam with my soapstone, I couldn't really justify the time or the expenditure.  Fortunately, someone else took the ball and ran with it. I think the over under burner oven concept is a very promising idea- hopefully someone doing a grill mod will see it's potential value and give it a try.

buceriasdon

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1017 on: February 24, 2011, 08:09:10 AM »
scott123, My reasoning behind going with low pressure burners for above and below is simplicity, I would use a Y splitter for the two lines and have a seperate valve for each burner. To use a high pressure burner below would require another regulator for the upper burner and I would think with two burners and a steel plate as a hearth heat up times would be short. May have to go to Home Depot for a grill this Sunday. I'll start a new thread then.
Don

Offline skyno

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Re: Little Black Egg - Rookie Questions
« Reply #1018 on: February 27, 2011, 03:05:55 PM »
I couldn't resist anymore and had to dive into the LBE universe - I've read most of this thread and finally put together my own basic setup this weekend.

The setup:

Used 18" weber lined w/ HD foil with a 1.5" x 8" side vent, Bayou Classic SP-10, ash catcher with quarry tile pieces trapped between catcher & lid(for more heat retention), 1 layer of split firebricks, followed by a top layer of a workhorse of an old unglazed quarry tile that has proven its durability so far on the clean cycle - I will eventually get a better top stone, but this is the best I had on hand for now

The cook:

I followed the standard procedure of slowly ramping up the heat - I let it burn for a bit since this was the 1st run and I wanted to burn any unsavory elements out - when the stone was reading about 575 and the dome was reading almost 800, I threw a basic pie on - traditional dough - starter, flour, salt - since this was a test pie I used cheap moz cheese - it cooked in 3.5 minutes w/ a couple turns

The results:

Great cook on the top and on the outside crust but undercooked in the middle of the bottom - I'm thinking the firebrick is too much of a buffer.  Also got this funky white residue that settled on the surface of the burner and on the ground under the LBE

The next step:

I need to distribute the heat better - I would love to not have to buy 2 high-end stones to do this - I do have a couple of old cheapo stones - one 14x14 which is cracked in half (after 1 use) and one 12" circular which has no business being a primary stone but maybe could come in handy as a buffer - not sure I have the proper equipment to cut the pizza stones though!

The advice needed:

If anybody has any suggestions on how to more evenly distribute the heat w/out having to buy a bunch of stuff, I would love to hear it.
Has anybody ever seen this residue before?  I was thinking that it was some of the old particles just burning out.  
Also, any suggestions on the most economical option for a stone that hold up well in an LBE?
Any other suggestions to make this a better operation are of course welcomed!

Thanks in advance for any assistance for this rookie!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:05:36 PM by skyno »

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #1019 on: February 27, 2011, 03:17:49 PM »
Made these on the LBE Friday evening... 25% white whole wheat (KA), Murphy's Stout. Diced Prosciutto topping.

Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
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