Author Topic: Little Black Egg (Read 268031 times)

pizzaneer · « **Reply #1640 on:** July 16, 2012, 04:33:11 PM »

Interesting project Bob - if I were you I would model it after the modified KPI a la Jackitup. Go with the same steel thickness the Weber has, same opening dimensions, mount bolts for the second stone so it rests about 3" above the hearth.
Not sure about the wave thing - do you mean the Marsal oven? If so, that would be difficult and tough to do, and may not be worth it.
Keep in mind that you will have to add more wood to the rear of the LBE at times if you are doing a sustained period. So you will need the swing-up access hatch on the top stone to drop the wood into the charcoal basket, past the bottom stone.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1641 on:** July 16, 2012, 04:46:15 PM »

Yes Brian, the new found Wave of the future on the Marsal.

Is that wood basket in the way of the deflector?

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1642 on:** July 16, 2012, 04:49:22 PM »

Quote from: pizzaneer on July 16, 2012, 04:33:11 PM

So you will need the swing-up access hatch on the top stone to drop the wood into the charcoal basket, past the bottom stone.

Hmm, I was only wanting a 'lil wood on the top stone for the "deer in headlights" customers.

shuboyje · « **Reply #1643 on:** July 16, 2012, 05:09:47 PM »

I'd use 16 gauge mild steel. It's a cheap , readily available, industry standard material that any sheet metal shop will have on hand. You can even buy it in the hardware section of home depot and lowes, but without a slip roll you'll never form it.

scott123 · « **Reply #1644 on:** July 16, 2012, 05:40:38 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on July 16, 2012, 12:48:38 PM

What gauge steel is recommended for a diy kettle ring? Any thoughts on a preferred height? Stone type and thickness? Thanks!
Do you think cutting the stone into 4 pieces and arranging them in the wave pattern would be beneficial?

Bob, I've put in considerable time researching a DIY KettlePizza insert. Thin guage metal can support either the Weber lid or, if you get a large enough stone, a large stone. Flashing can be cut with tinsnips- that's what I've been recommending. If you know you're going to be sticking to NY temps (below 800), then aluminum flashing is ideal- cheap and easy to cut. As long as it's quality flashing. I've been reading reviews on Home Depot on aluminum flashing that's little more than foil- that wouldn't work. If you want to work with Neapolitan temps, then the options are not quite so elegant. Home Depot carries galvanized steel flashing, but you've got the threat of zinc poisoning. I still firmly believe, that, if you know what you're doing, you can safely burn the zinc off galvanized steel, but everyone might not be comfortable with this route. I wish I could find a cheap source for regular steel flashing, but I'm not having any luck there. Copper flashing conductivity isn't ideal, although it will work, but it's the most expensive option.

The height of the insert depends on what you're comfortable launching into and the thickness of the stone. I would say that a 3" vertical gap is ideal, but can be a bit difficult to work with.

For the hearth, on a 22.5" grill, you'll want an 18 x 1/2 or 3/4 round cordierite stone (or firebrick splits) and, for the ceiling, a 21" round cordierite stone.

shuboyje · « **Reply #1645 on:** July 16, 2012, 05:50:12 PM »

Muriatic acid with lots of ventilation is the best way to remove the galvanized coating. That is how we do it when soldering galvanized metal.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1646 on:** July 16, 2012, 05:58:21 PM »

Thanks Scott an Jeff,

I have a 'lil bodyshop so this is no problem. But if I didn't , one could easily source some thin gauge( above 16 as Jeff said)and simply pop-rivet that dude after cutting your opening. You can drill your pilot holes for the stone support screws before or after. Like you said Scott...sure beats the price they are charging for these simple little things. I'm gonna nose around for that source for rolls of regular steel flashing an let you know what I find.

Bob

scott123 · « **Reply #1647 on:** July 16, 2012, 06:13:00 PM »

Thanks, Jeff, that's good to know.

Bob, the most important aspect about the DIY kettle insert is the fact that you don't rivet it together. Once you start riveting and cutting out an opening, you've got an opening + the metal above it- which is going to be way too high. One single strip of metal curved into a C is all you need.

With the right height on the flashing, you don't need support screws either. You just get a big round 21" cordierite stone (or square 21 x 1/4" steel plate) and sit it right on the flashing. Just make sure that the open of the 'C' is big enough to launch a pie through.

Edit: steel might be better for the ceiling, due the fact that you can drill it easier, should you need to add some kind of air disruption aspects later (a la LBE).

pizzaneer · « **Reply #1648 on:** July 16, 2012, 06:19:38 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on July 16, 2012, 06:13:00 PM

Thanks, Jeff, that's good to know.

Bob, the most important aspect about the DIY kettle insert is the fact that you don't rivet it together. Once you start riveting and cutting out an opening, you've got an opening + the metal above it- which is going to be way too high. One single strip of metal curved into a C is all you need.

With the right height on the flashing, you don't need support screws either. You just get a big round 21" cordierite stone (or square 21 x 1/4" steel plate) and sit it right on the flashing. Just make sure that the open of the 'C' is big enough to launch a pie through.

That really is the cheapest way to go.. as far as looks, not so great. I also have a concern about dimensional stability. Once the heat gets up there, you could be seeing a lot of movement with this approach. Sagging, warping, twisting, all things you don't really want when you've got an 800+ stone + a dome balanced on top of your LBE.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #1649 on:** July 16, 2012, 06:21:10 PM »

Well dang Scott...a man after my own heart!

(see my signature)
Thanks so much...glad we all have you around, that's for sure.

scott123 · « **Reply #1650 on:** July 16, 2012, 07:11:08 PM »

Quote from: pizzaneer on July 16, 2012, 06:19:38 PM

That really is the cheapest way to go.. as far as looks, not so great. I also have a concern about dimensional stability. Once the heat gets up there, you could be seeing a lot of movement with this approach. Sagging, warping, twisting, all things you don't really want when you've got an 800+ stone + a dome balanced on top of your LBE.

Brian, a curved piece of de-galvanized steel or copper flashing will be very dimensionally stable, as long as it's not too lightweight of a gauge. A thin sheet of metal, on it's edge, has considerable compressive strength. I also have been talking about supporting the lid OR the stone, not both. With the stone sitting on the flashing, you really don't need the lid.

You can also take twice the length of flashing that you need, fold it in half and have two concentric rings. This would be especially good for copper because it would give you a sandwich of air to act as insulation.

Another idea that came to me is placing two strips of flashing together, folding over the last inch, then folding that inch in half again to make a union. When you separate the two strips the union will be 8 layers of metal thick, and, when on it's side, give you even greater compressive strength. You could, in theory, place these unions every few inches along the C.

When you buy the flashing, you won't be able to get a strip that's (2/3 to 3/4 the circumference of a 22.5" circle) by 4 or 5" (the approximate height you'll need), so the excess flashing can be used to double the ring or other kinds of fortification.

PizzaEater101 · « **Reply #1651 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:36:17 PM »

Scott, I really need to get those bolts you are talking about because the grill on mine is sagging. I only did one bake session of three pies and noticed it sagging but I did not look at it seriously close until today and it's really sagging bad. I would not do another bake until I get the bolts and install them to support the kiln shelving. Thanks for suggesting the bolts.

Ronbro or Villaroma, thanks for starting this thread. Without you posting about the LBE I would have no idea about these things. I have some tweaking to do but I'm on the right path. Thanks bud.

shuboyje · « **Reply #1652 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:01:07 PM »

Scott,

I just came up with the perfect way to do this. Black stove pipe. You can buy it at any hardware store in at least 6" diameter, possibly 8". This pipe is safe for high heat with no treatment needed. It will have a seam running it's entire length that is composed of a male end and a female end that simple snap into place. Say you want your ring 6" tall. Simply use tin snips to cut a series of 6 inch bands out of it. Then use the seams to connect them together to get the desired length to make a larger radius. I would personally make a complete ring with a door cut into it for extra stability, but that's just me.

scott123 · « **Reply #1653 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:12:52 PM »

Jeff, I like. Cheap, sturdy and no zinc.

PizzaEater101 · « **Reply #1654 on:** July 22, 2012, 04:35:20 PM »

Quote from: pizzaneer on July 13, 2012, 11:02:32 PM

Stainless steel 3" 3/8" dm bolts with SS nuts and lock washers ... FTW.

Screws? Wha? Don't use screws.

Scott and Pizaneer,

I got some bolts at Home Depot and just installed them. I made sure they were level and seems so far so good but I did not bake a pie as of yet. I am probably gonna tonight and I'll let you guys know how the bolts held up (literally and figuratively). Thanks guys.

scott123 · « **Reply #1655 on:** July 22, 2012, 05:05:25 PM »

James, sounds great. Did you go with a stainless bolt? If you didn't, that means they're galvanized, which means zinc.

PizzaEater101 · « **Reply #1656 on:** July 22, 2012, 05:39:01 PM »

Scott,

I got the kind that is not coated, I suppose stainless steel. I was having a hard time finding what I needed and I asked the Home Depot worker and he was really helpful. I told him what I needed it for and he made sure I got the ones not coated because he said he didn't think I should have any coating that could cause harmful chemicals to be on my food.

I know you told me not to get coated also but when I asked him for help he made sure not to get me coated bolts.

Thanks.

scott123 · « **Reply #1657 on:** July 22, 2012, 06:22:06 PM »

Excellent, James, I'm looking forward to hearing about your further exploits.

simcha · « **Reply #1658 on:** July 22, 2012, 06:58:35 PM »

Hi everyone, I'm back again with a little more experience than when I first started. The good news, I've figured out how to properly flour the peel and work area. The seemingly unfavorable news is that I'm using semolina flour on the peel and after I cook the first two pies, pie number 3 came out burnt on the bottom. Now there is excess burnt semolina on the bricks, can this be causing the burning?

I'll be honest I don't check the temps after launching the first pie so the bricks may be getting much hotter and burning the bottoms.

Also does anyone have a method of removing burnt semolina from the hot stones?

Thanks again for the help, I feel I made a great jump today by making 2 completely edible pies.

PizzaEater101 · « **Reply #1659 on:** July 23, 2012, 12:18:27 AM »

Well, I made a pie with the setup of having the bolts support the kiln shelving. Guess what it was an epic failure but not because of the bolts.

What happened is the lid or dome whatever you wanna call it is on a hinge and you can lift it with the handle and it will open up. The bolts are in the way of the hinge and I did not notice until after I was heating it up and noticed it was not getting nearly as hot as it did the first time I used it. The bolts prevent the lid from completely closing so there is a pretty noticeable gap between the lid and the bottom half of the unit. Too much hot air is escaping.

Not a problem though, I am gonna remove the hinges and just lift the lid/dome off instead of raise it as it is now with the hinges. I need those bolts because the grate sags with the stones on it so eventually maybe the grate will break because the heat and the weight of the kiln.

So tomorrow I take the hinges off and then do another bake. The first bake I did the other day was fine. I think this Little Red Corvette works really well but I need the hinges off and hope everything is back to normal.

I'll let you guys know how it goes after it's done.

Thanks