Author Topic: Little Black Egg (Read 268149 times)

skyno · « **Reply #1080 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:15:11 PM »

Wallman

Your setup is almost identical to mine except mine is 18.5" and I do not use the same "heat diffuser" on the charcoal grate, but instead I wrapped some HD foil around the charcoal grate (on the 18.5" it is about 16" in diameter) and placed this directly below the tile.

I have some of the same issues as you - too much char on the rim and our crust & crumb look identical, but, unlike you, I actually wanted a bit more char in the bottom-center, so I actually cut a round hole in the center of my makeshift diffuser and this seemed to help, but I cannot cook a pie in less than 3.5 minutes w/out over-charring the rim- I'm actually pretty happy w/ my 3.5 min. pies, but I'm still fine-tuning my technique

The point that several have made about the different types of flour is a good one (I currently use about a 50/50 blend of good quality AP & BF - I haven't converted over to 00 yet for a # of reasons, but maybe someday) - but if I recall, our founding father Villa Roma & others were able to get great results w/ AP, so maybe it also has to do w/ variety w/in the brands or maybe there's other factors at play? - based on the pattern that it chars, I'm pretty convinced that the "jet-stream" of hot air coming up over the perimeter contributed to the increased char on the rim - so, contrary to some others, I actually blast the burner just before I put in the pie & then back off a bit once the lid goes on & this gets pretty good results

A couple other notes:

1. Sounds like the tiles have already started cracking - mine have as well but they still work great - especially for $1

2. As the veterans here pointed out to me, your main grill will probably start to sag soon - especially since yours is 22" - they have posted some great solutions, but a quick and cheap one that I used was to reinforce w/ a couple rods of rebar - just drilled a few holes lined up along the sides and threaded the rebar through - make the holes only slightly bigger than the rebar and it will mechanically lock in - so far this has held up very well

Wallman · « **Reply #1081 on:** March 29, 2011, 07:57:42 AM »

Sky, Good tips thanks. This weekend I'm going to blend some of by 00 with the GM All Trumps and probably try a straight 00 Neapolitan dough. The rebar idea is a good one for holding the baking tiles. Another idea is to use a charcoal grate from a Weber kettle (you have to go a size up), so for the 18.5 use the charcoal grate from the 22.5. I've ordered the grate for the 26.75 to use in my 22.5 kettle. The guy at Weber was confused why I just wanted the grate if I didn't have the corresponding grill. I didn't have the heart to tell him I'd just sawed big holes in their product!

skyno · « **Reply #1082 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:40:13 PM »

Wall - great minds think alike! - that was actually my 1st thought - while I was the hardware store, I tried the the charcoal grate from the 22.5 to reinforce the main grate on the 18.5 but I found that it was just slightly too small in diameter and it just barely rested on the supports, but was not stable - hopefully the grate from the 26 will fit just right for you, but let me know if figure out a mod that allows you to fit it

Thanks!

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #1083 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:58:27 PM »

I drilled some bolts into the perimeter of the MBE and LBE and attached some nuts to help hold up the undersized grate.

reply #92
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11126.80.html

Reply #10
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13036.0.html

buceriasdon · « **Reply #1084 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:58:44 PM »

For supports I used 90 degree angle brackets from the hardware store to hold up my tile. They come in sizes up to four or five inches. The brackets come with two or three holes on each leg. Because of the curve they do have to be shaped with a hammer for a tighter angle, under 90 degrees. I laid out where the four needed to go then placed masking tape in that location which makes it easy to measure down and mark the top of the bracket. Hold the bracket to that mark and mark the two hole locations. Repeat for the rest. Center guide punch and drill the holes for all. Remove the tape and mount the brackets using screws and bolts. One can then tweak the brackets with heavy pliers or tap them so the tile, stone doesn't rock.
Don

buceriasdon · « **Reply #1085 on:** March 29, 2011, 05:32:13 PM »

Speaking of LBEs, today's pizza. Hummus made with cilantro mixed in, tomatoes and onion with some Asadero cheese. Two day CF at 75% hydration which appears to be the majic number for the AP flour I get. I got some nice leoparding and a very tender crust.
Don

Ronzo · « **Reply #1086 on:** March 29, 2011, 08:16:36 PM »

Don, that looks great. By the way, I LOVE red onion on pizza.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #1087 on:** March 30, 2011, 09:04:06 AM »

Thank you Ron. The jump to 75% hydration has elevated my pizza to another level. I am glad I learned on smaller dough balls how to handle the wetter dough, though I know more practice is needed to get good round pizzas. It's really cool to see the steam come off the pizza when it hits the tile.

I can only repeat to folks that are having burning problems with their LBEs, reply 1079, to try higher hydration dough as that has been the only change between my reply 1064, March 15 and now.
Don

Mmmph · « **Reply #1088 on:** March 30, 2011, 12:12:36 PM »

Nice looking pies...

@Ron - Ditto on red onion, especially sliced super thin on my mandoline..

Ronzo · « **Reply #1089 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:15:09 PM »

Quote from: Mmmph on March 30, 2011, 12:12:36 PM

Nice looking pies...

@Ron - Ditto on red onion, especially sliced super thin on my mandoline..

makin' me drool just thinking about that...

Ronzo · « **Reply #1090 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:17:15 PM »

Quote from: buceriasdon on March 30, 2011, 09:04:06 AM

Thank you Ron. The jump to 75% hydration has elevated my pizza to another level. I am glad I learned on smaller dough balls how to handle the wetter dough, though I know more practice is needed to get good round pizzas. It's really cool to see the steam come off the pizza when it hits the tile. I can only repeat to folks that are having burning problems with their LBEs, reply 1079, to try higher hydration dough as that has been the only change between my reply 1064, March 15 and now.
Don

Yeah, I'm working on the Reinhart Neo-Neapolitan right now and it's about 70%. It's made a huge difference in my pizzas. I'm sticking here for awhile for the LBE pies. Nice and light.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #1091 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:28:35 PM »

Quote from: buceriasdon on March 30, 2011, 09:04:06 AM

Thank you Ron. The jump to 75% hydration has elevated my pizza to another level. I am glad I learned on smaller dough balls how to handle the wetter dough, though I know more practice is needed to get good round pizzas. It's really cool to see the steam come off the pizza when it hits the tile. I can only repeat to folks that are having burning problems with their LBEs, reply 1079, to try higher hydration dough as that has been the only change between my reply 1064, March 15 and now.
Don

I agree, the moisture may have some protective qualities against burning. I routinely use HG flour for my high hydration pies and bake them in my LBE at 600-625F for 3+ minutes without burning problems.

skyno · « **Reply #1092 on:** March 31, 2011, 12:32:18 AM »

I am getting to the point where I'm fairly consistently happy w/ my LBE pies, and now I'm completely fixated on adding a mod that allows me to rotate the cooking surface as it cooks since I think everyone will agree that the constant opening the lid & turning is a bit inefficient. Oh, and did I mention that I would love for this mod to be cheap and easy! I definitely don't need it to be auto - something where I can just stick an instrument through the side vent and spin it like a record player.

The best basic design strategy that fits this bill that I have come across in searching this forum is probably compatta's basic approach with the screw and a bunch of washers:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13036.msg127396.html#msg127396

I'm still struggling w/ exactly how to put this approach into action, especially w/out having to put a thick piece of steel under the stone, which probably wouldn't conduct well. Maybe I could just clamp something directly to the grate to retain a rotational widget of some kind? Any advice or thoughts on this mod? Also, any experience or guesses on how well something like this would hold up at high heat over time?

Thanks in advance!

Wallman · « **Reply #1093 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:24:55 PM »

If you are looking for a base for your baking surface, I have good news for 22.5" LBE builders. The charcoal grate from the Weber 26.75" One Touch Gold Grill fits perfectly and is very sturdy. I ordered directly from the Weber customer service phone line (this grate is not listed in their website catalog), cost me $26.70 including shipping.

Ronzo · « **Reply #1094 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:35:44 PM »

Quote from: Wallman on March 31, 2011, 10:24:55 PM

If you are looking for a base for your baking surface, I have good news for 22.5" LBE builders. The charcoal grate from the Weber 26.75" One Touch Gold Grill fits perfectly and is very sturdy. I ordered directly from the Weber customer service phone line (this grate is not listed in their website catalog), cost me $26.70 including shipping.

I just used the original charcoal grate for the 22" kettle, and installed some 3 inch bolts to hold it up securely.

Mmmph · « **Reply #1095 on:** April 01, 2011, 02:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Wallman on March 31, 2011, 10:24:55 PM

If you are looking for a base for your baking surface, I have good news for 22.5" LBE builders. The charcoal grate from the Weber 26.75" One Touch Gold Grill fits perfectly and is very sturdy. I ordered directly from the Weber customer service phone line (this grate is not listed in their website catalog), cost me $26.70 including shipping.

Do not tell them that you have modified your Weber grill!!! They will refuse to sell you the grate.

Note, there's two models of this 26.75" grill charcoal grate.
The older one is 19.5" $40.00, plus shipping. The newer one (Part #63040) is a little lighter duty and is 21 5/58" 19.70, plus shipping

Wallman · « **Reply #1096 on:** April 02, 2011, 02:58:35 PM »

Here's a few pics of my 22.5" LBE with the new grate from the 26.75" Weber Kettle. I used a ss dog bowl as a flame diverter (with a few broken tiles). For the baking surface I have a layer of 1/2" tiles and then a 19" kiln shelf (5/8" thick). It's a lot cheaper to by these from a pottery store than a comparably sized pizza stone. This is made of cordierite and cost $32.

Wallman · « **Reply #1097 on:** April 02, 2011, 03:21:40 PM »

First pie on the new kiln shelf surface. This was a Lehmann NY-Style dough using GM All Trumps at 70% hydration, no oil in the dough. Approximately 15 hour cold rise, 12" diameter. The surface temp was around 600 F, I had to get the pie on a little earlier than I wanted due to rain. Bake time was 4:15. Oven spring wasn't quite what I was hoping for, but the char was ok, not really burnt. Later today, assuming the rain stops, I'm going to try some Caputo 00 Neapolitan style dough.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #1098 on:** April 02, 2011, 06:57:31 PM »

My first 90 second pizza using AP flour and two day CF. Italian canned tomatoes only blended from Wal Mart and Panela cheese and my basil. I am happy.
Don

skyno · « **Reply #1099 on:** April 02, 2011, 07:10:46 PM »

Hey Wallman

Nice job - that looks pretty damn good - especially for a 1st bake! I'm actually impressed that you got that much char on the center part of the underside - I would have thought that thick quarry tile, which is very absorptive + super-thick stone would've been too thick to really get a good heat transfer & get that much char - I tried a similar setup and got zero char on the the underside - what were your approximate heat up times and did you blast it to get to those temps?

Also, would you mind sharing where you got the kiln shelf? Was shipping a killer? Or did you buy local?

I think you will see improved oven spring if you cold ferment for longer - it probably depends on what yeast your using as well - I usually use a SF wild-yeast starter that is pretty active and I need at least 2 full days (6 is better) cold or 8 hours room temp - even with quickrise yeast, the cold ferment takes a while w/ no additional sugars.

Thanks a lot for sharing

LJ