Little Black Egg

[Chicago Bob]

From what I've read on gas burners, it's the regulator that gets you the BTU's. 

Notice on this 20lb regulator http://bayouclassicdepot.com/m5hpr1_propane_regulator.htm it has a valve after the regulator to limit flame on the burner.

The valve in the tank can freeze up if you go mess'in with it....that's why Amores link uses a second valve to regulate flow...

[scott123]

Simcha, I should be one to talk, but it's almost impossible to troubleshoot LBE issues without photos.  Shots of the deflector, the burner position, the stone position and the air foil/director in the lid would help tremendously.

The heat in an LBE flows like a 7.  The deflector should have a gap in the back for the heat to travel (or be tilted up towards the back) and the stone should be pushed towards the vent in the lid, again, with a gap in the back.  The heat travels behind the deflector, behind and over the stone, get's bounced down onto the pizza with the air foil/director and then comes out the vent in the front.

The air foil has to be dialed in, the stone position/gap position has to be right and the deflector has to be on the money as well.  All of these aspects are part of the top heat bottom heat ratio correction. If anything is off, you get way too much bottom heat.

Quarry tiles are really not ideal for an LBE setting as they don't have much resistance to thermal shock. They also, if used as a hearth, are very thin and need a lot more deflection from below.

You need a lot more mass than just quarry tiles for deflection. A stainless bowl with sand works pretty well.

[simcha]

Scott,

Thanks for the detailed reply.  Ok apparently I have some modifications to make.   

Can someone post some shots of their deflectors?  I'll try to post some photos tomorrow.

Thank again for the help.

[scott123]

I started going through this thread and found two deflectors:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4753.msg148228.html#msg148228

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4753.msg146418.html#msg146418

I've seen lots of people having success with deflectors that are relatively small and close to the flame, but I think the second of these examples is a better way to go- a deflector that's very close to the hearth stone, and almost identical in size.   The reason why I like this is that, with small deflectors, the heat laps around the edges and goes straight up. Straight up will contact the outer edges of the stone and potentially give you hot spots.

In, say, a 22" weber, an 18" round cordierite hearth and an 18" round cordierite deflector would work very nicely.  If you could find an 18" round steel plate, in a thin gauge, say 1/8", that could work, but I can't seem to find disks like this. If you're certain of only having Neapolitan aspirations, then two 16" stones would work also.

Firebricks, because of the 1.125" thickness, have natural, built in deflection when used as hearths- to a point. The intense heat from below generally won't make it through to the top during the bake, but, for ensuing bakes, you've got to be away that the intense heat will make it to the top for those.  The hearth really should be round, though, and cutting firebrick is no walk in the park.

Kelly uses a cast iron pan (with the handle removed) for his deflection.

[toddster63]

Scott,

Thanks for the detailed reply.  Ok apparently I have some modifications to make.  

Can someone post some shots of their deflectors?  I'll try to post some photos tomorrow.

Thank again for the help.

I gave up totally on bottom deflectors of any kind (with the exception of my stone sitting on a stainless pizza pan to protect it from direct heat) and now just regulate heat with the propane regulator. I like my top deflector as it allows for great top heating and browinng for these bottom heated ovens.

Here is a picture of my top lid deflector. Hard to see the specifics from this pic but here goes...

The cuts on the right of this pie-pan are angled to force the rising hot air down over the pizza.

The front of the deflector on the left side (that faces the front cut-out open of the lid) is bent downward to keep the heat over the pizza as it cooks.

I forget who, but I copied this design from someone here on this thread, I know it orginated with Chau. I have found it took a little tweaking, but it works GREAT now, and even wonderfully browns even my Caputo 00 pies...!

[scott123]

Todd, a few pages back, we, okay, fine, I made the decision, to avoid confusion, to call the air foil in the lid a 'director.'

[scott123]

We can call it anything, btw.  I'm just trying to find two different words to delineate between the deflector below the stone and the air foil above.

[toddster63]

Todd, a few pages back, we, okay, fine, I made the decision, to avoid confusion, to call the air foil in the lid a 'director.'

Todd, a few pages back, we, okay, fine, I made the decision, to avoid confusion, to call the air foil in the lid a 'director.'

So what do we call it when we totally abandon the bottom deflector (which is really a sh**** idea in my exerience) all together and develop better ideas for more thorough bakes?

I'd love to see more LBE bakes that look more like mine,  nicely browned and I really think a lower heat deflector violently works against this...

Like the first pie pic below with Caputo pizzeria baked in 96 seconds with fresh mozz.

And the second pie pic with Better For Bread baked in 120 seconds with aged mozz.

If these pies appeal to you, trust me and lose any and all lower heat deflectors, place your stone on a stainless steel (or steel) tray (think catering tray) as a heat deflector of sorts, use a good well designed hot heat director in your lid, and get ready for superlative pies in under 2 minutes even with Caputo Pizzeria. You'll also lose that tell-tale pale inner cornish ring inflected on so many LBE pies with the focus on lower heat deflection (which I think is due to too much heat deflected to the sides and then lost in a directionless lid.)

You'll also heat up faster and use less propane when you lose the garbage in the bottom. Your stone should heat up tp 600F in 15 minutes, and a 5 lb. tank lasts me for 25-30 pies

Can't stree enough—LOSE any type of lower heat deflector sans a stainless/steel tray to set under your stone and work more on a upper "heat director" (it's really the ticket).

[scott123]

Todd, those pies look great, but, no matter how you cut it, a steel tray isn't a deflector 'of sorts,' it is a deflector. You can't say "do away with deflectors" while using a deflector I think we're both on the same page in regards to deflectors working better closer to the hearth, rather than located further down, nearer the flame.  My steel disc that I just spoke of is almost identical to your tray.

My only issue with the tray is the potential for warping.  Is your tray staying flat? Are you hitting it at full blast with your burner? 

[toddster63]

Todd, those pies look great, but, no matter how you cut it, a steel tray isn't a deflector 'of sorts,' it is a deflector. You can't say "do away with deflectors" while using a deflector I think we're both on the same page in regards to deflectors working better closer to the hearth, rather than located further down, nearer the flame.  My steel disc that I just spoke of is almost identical to your tray.

My only issue with the tray is the potential for warping.  Is your tray staying flat? Are you hitting it at full blast with your burner? 

Yeah, we are on the same page... My stainless steel pizza tray or catering tray has held up great in terms of warping, even with frequent high full blast heat. Maybe just a teeny tiny bit of warping, but you can't really notice it. It has turned the tray a reddish color.

[toddster63]

If anyone is working on a director better pics of mine can be seen HERE.

[buceriasdon]

simcha, I will reiterate my first reply to you so it doesn't get lost in the messages, you need to raise the grate and the hearth up higher, level with the top edge there by increasing the distance between the burner and the hearth. That change also has the added benefits of one: Bringing the level of the baking surface and the pizza being baked in line with the hot air rushing out the front vent according to Bernoulli's Principle. Two: It reduces the air volume in the lid which makes whatever device is mounted in the lid to create a turbulence of superheated air more effective (vortex generator). Three, it makes loading and turning pies easier. Ideally your hearth stone should cover all the top except for an area at the rear concentrating the hot air as it rushes to the vent at the front and over the top of the pizza. Somehow you need to cover more of your grate.
Don
Type vortex generator in the Search feature for more on it's use in the LBE.

[buceriasdon]

Bob, The problem with swapping out for a gas grill regulator is they are low pressure. Not really interchangable.
Don

keep the valve open...do you or a neighbor have a gas grill that you could demo the regulator from....

[buceriasdon]

Todd, I too use no burner diffuser but my burner is offset towards the rear of the lower kettle and my hearth is a poor conductor, Saltillo tile. I agree with you, it's all about top heat and getting it directed correctly.
Don

[Chicago Bob]

Bob, The problem with swapping out for a gas grill regulator is they are low pressure. Not really interchangable.
Don

OK, but I thought he said he was wanting to try lower pressure. Aren't most turkey fryers the lower 10psi type regulators and that's why some mod it with the 20? Thanks.

[buceriasdon]

Bob, Here is a 10 lb. regulator, it specifies not to be used with a grill.  As an experiment I hooked up a low pressure to my high pressure burner and it works, but it didn't put out much heat.
http://bayouclassicdepot.com/7000_propane_regulator.htm
There must be a way simcha can throttle back at a valve.
Don

[Chicago Bob]

Bob, Here is a 10 lb. regulator, it specifies not to be used with a grill.  As an experiment I hooked up a low pressure to my high pressure burner and it works, but it didn't put out much heat.
http://bayouclassicdepot.com/7000_propane_regulator.htm
There must be a way simcha can throttle back at a valve.
Don

Don, the link you just posted shows the correct way to throttle back....he just needs to buy him a valve...

And yes, I forgot that grill regulators are only around 6lbs. I think...

[Chicago Bob]

I believe Kelly said that the 20's really gobble up the propane.
How many of you guys here are using the 10psi regulators?  Thanks

[pizzaneer]

Depends on whether you've got the valve cranked wide open.   I've never seen the need to turn mine all the way up.  Mine works effectively at 1/4  to brown the top, and just fine at about 1/6th to preheat in 20 minutes.

But then, I don't have a deflector.  My stone sits on a 1/8t" stainless steel plate that closes off the grill except for where I want the heat to come up.  Because the metal conducts better than the stone, it evens out hot spots during preheat.   I would not call it a deflector.  Some other term would be better. 

Putting something in the way of the heat halfway to the stone is just a waste of propane, IMO.

[buceriasdon]

I guess I assumed simcha has an inline valve, I assumed they came that way.
Don