Author Topic: Dough Temperature  (Read 7278 times)

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Offline Randy

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Dough Temperature
« on: July 23, 2004, 10:56:44 AM »
Peter mentioned dough temperature in a response to the sticky dough problem Dave was having.  I thought everyone might throw his or her two-cents-worth in if we made it a separate topic.

From what I have read achieving a certain dough temperature every time will produce a uniform product from one batch to the next assuming all other factors are equal. Peter mentioned 80-85 deg F that means a cool liquid.  SAF  PerfectRise yeast suggest using 120-130F water with half the flour mix which yields a bit higher temperature after kneading.

.  I have tried both and prefer the SAF higher temperature water procedure but that is my opinion.  Pierre and Peter suggest the use of 70 deg water

What is everyone else using and why?


Randy


Peter

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2004, 01:52:00 PM »
Randy,

You are right about using dough temperature as a way of achieving a uniform product.  I suspect this is less of a problem for pizza doughs made at home, but it has great significance to professional bread bakers and professional pizza makers who have to be sure that their dough turns out right time after time.   To the extent I am able to emulate the pros in the pizzas I make at home, I am willing to give it a try.

I first became aware of temperature as a factor in dough making after reading Nancy Silverton's book "Breads From the LaBrea Bakery."  She measured the temperature of everything, and I started doing the same.  I subsequently learned how to adjust water temperature to achieve a consistent dough temperature, using a simple mathematical calculation.  

For those with a technical inclination, the proper temperature of the water to be used is calculated by multiplying the desired dough temperature (say, 80 degrees F) by 3 and then subtracting the sum of the room temperature, the flour temperature and the frictional temperature from machine kneading (say, 3 degrees F for a home stand mixer and 20 degrees F for a home food processor).  Since the friction component will vary from one situation to another, it is technically more accurately determined as follows: multiply the actual dough temperature by 3 and subtract the sum of the room temperature, flour temperature, and water temperature. The friction factor has to be calculated each time a different amount of dough is prepared or a different type of machine is used, so it will be helpful to calculate and jot down the friction factors for the different types and quantities of dough used so that they can be used in future efforts. Since my doughs are fairly simple and straightforward I simply use the above friction factors for the two types of machines I use, and that almost always gets me in the 80-85 degrees F range.  All of the temperatures required in the above formula can be readily determined through use of an instant-read thermometer. Taking a simple example of the use of the above formula, if the desired dough temperature is 80 degrees F, which is considered optimal for pizza doughs, and the room temperature is 72 degrees F, and the flour temperature is 68 degrees F, and the frictional machine factor is an assumed 3 degrees F, then the temperature of the water to use is (3 x 80)-(72+68+3)=97 degrees F. Using a food processor would yield a lower water temperature because of the higher friction factor for such a machine. There are times where you may even have to add ice to your water to lower its temperature.

You mentioned, Randy, that the yeast you use has a fairly high proofing temperature.  After poking around the websites of yeast producers, I learned that, in general, most yeasts, and especially dry yeasts, do indeed prefer warm water over cold or cool water which can shock the yeast, leach certain soluble cell constituents from the yeast (primarily glutathione), reduce enzyme activity, and otherwise degrade the yeast's overall performance. However, the yeast producers will also tell you that if the dry yeast (instant yeast, specifically) is thoroughly blended with the flour, the cold or cool water will be absorbed primarily by the flour and thus have less direct physical contact with the yeast. Alternatively, if you wish, the dry yeast (instant) can be combined and left in the flour for around 30 minutes before adding cold or cool water, during which time the yeast will absorb moisture from the flour (which can typically contain about 11-14% water) and commence rehydration before the cold or cool water is added. There is no doubt that higher rehydration temperatures will promote faster fermentation. But, it seems to me that the best dough, with the best flavor and aroma constituents and fermentation byproducts (e.g., alcohol, lactic and acetic acids, esters, aldehydes, etc), come from a long, slow fermentation, and using small amounts of yeast. Achieving a consistent dough temperature is basically the entry point to this process.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 11:01:20 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2004, 07:24:33 PM »
I think that I read something of this on the King Arthur web site about the dough temps. It seemed a little too exacting for me, how much importance should be put on this?
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Offline Randy

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2004, 09:52:21 AM »
Dough temperature is to me an interesting topic and I have checked it a few times but for our use it is a bit too much detail.  It would be interesting to see a pizza kneaded to say 90 deg as compared to one at 70.

Randy

Peter

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2004, 01:48:33 PM »
Randy,

I actually did do a test along the lines you suggest.  About a year or so ago, I wondered how fast I could make a pizza and still have it edible.  I concluded that I would have to use the highest possible temperatures for everything, and especially the dough temperature.  I decided to use the imported "00" flour (Bel Aria brand), which I had been experimenting with for some time in an effort to replicate authentic Neapolitan style pizza dough.  The 00 flour is low in protein (about 7.4% for the Bel Aria brand), and low in gluten, but, more importantly, a dough made with the 00 flour doesn't require retardation (refrigeration) and it is far less prone to springback problems characteristic of higher-protein, higher-gluten flours.  For the yeast, I selected instant yeast since it has the highest rehydration temperature range of all yeasts (other than "rapid-rise" yeast, which I don't like and never use), and there is no need to hydrate it in water.  I just mixed it in with the flour.  The only other ingredients were water, some sea salt and a little bit of olive oil to oil a container in which the dough was to rise.

I put the flour and instant yeast into the bowl of a food processor and pulsed the processor to combine them.  With the motor running, I added the water, which I had heated to 115-120 degrees F in a microwave oven for about 20--25 seconds (and measured with an instant-read thermometer), and processed the ingredients until a smooth dough ball was formed between the processor blade and bowl.  As is my regular practice, I then added the sea salt and processed the dough until the salt was fully incorporated, and the dough was smooth and would pass the windowpane test.  (In actuality, I could have added the salt to the flour and yeast to begin with, since instant yeast is more tolerant of salt and especially so if the yeast is first incorporated into the flour, but old habits die hard).  I don't recall actually measuring the dough temperature (I wasn't as smart then as I am now), but I do recall that it was very warm to the touch, almost hot.

I put the dough ball into a lightly-oiled container, covered the container with plastic wrap, and put the container into a "proofing" box I had constructed from a Styrofoam cooler, a lamp, a standard dimmer switch, and some other simple electrical parts I had bought from Home Depot.   The design allowed me to achieve a range of temperatures from room temperature to about 120 degrees F.  At the beginning of the test, I had cranked the proofing box up to its highest possible temperature, about 120 degrees F, as measured by the instant-read thermometer.   I had likewise set my oven temperature to its highest operating temperature at the outset of the test, to be ready for the pizza.  I left the dough in the proofing box to rise for about 30-40 minutes, or until it about doubled in volume and my finger would leave an impression in the dough when I pressed it into the dough and removed it.

I then pressed and shaped the dough into a pizza round of about 9-10", dressed it in classical Neapolitan style, and baked it on a preheated pizza stone at the oven's highest temperature for about 6-7 minutes.  (To save time, I had gotten the tomatoes, cheese and other toppings ready as the dough was rising in the proofing box.)

From the time I went into the kitchen and turned on the oven and cranked up the proofing box to the time I was seated at the kitchen table with a glass of wine, the total expired time was just under an hour.  What surprised me most was that the pizza was quite good.  Not as good as one made following the more conventional approach and more normal dough temperatures, but quite good nonetheless considering that the total elapsed time was less than 1 hour, most of which you just sit around waiting.  Since my initial experiment, I have modified the recipe by increasing the protein content of the 00 flour somewhat, as by adding some vital wheat gluten or ordinary bread flour.  I also tried using only high-protein, high-gluten flour, but the dough produced a crust that tasted like cardboard.

In anyone is interested in the specific recipe, I'd be happy to share it with you, so long as you promise not to laugh.  I call my recipe a "last-minute" recipe, for those who can't or don't want to take the time to make a "real" pizza.

Peter


Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2004, 11:41:22 PM »
 ;DNeccesity being the Mother of Invention, calls for the occasional deviation from pizza perfection.

As in my common situation, were I am instructed to have one of my pizzas prepared for wife and boys on hardly enough notice to pour a bowl of cornflakes.

In otherwords, I would be very happy to share in your "last minute recipe" and will take a vow of the un-laughing. :)
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Peter

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2004, 07:49:28 AM »
Foccaciaman,

As you have requested, I have set forth below the Last Minute pizza dough recipe, along with my notes.   You will note that the recipe is for a single pizza, of a size (around 8-9 inches in diameter) typical of an authentic Neapolitan pizza.  You may have to play around with the quantities of the ingredients (and processing times) to get enough dough for the number of pizzas you would plan to make.  If you need sources for the 00 flour, let me know.  There are only a few brands available domestically and they are not all the same, even though they may be called 00 flour or specified as a clone of same.  If you need more detail on the proofing box design, I can provide that also.  Over the past year I have been writing an e-Pizza cookbook, not only to record recipes, but also to record just about everything I have ever learned about pizza production in the home.  I have written up a detailed description of the proofing box design in the e-Pizza cookbook and can easily cut and paste it in a post at this site.   Because I deem the dough to be the most important component of a pizza, I have chosen to title my cookbook "The Passion of the Crust".  The Last-Minute recipe comes from that book.

Last-Minute Pizza Dough Recipe Using 00 Flour and Proofing Box

1 c. 00 flour, Bel Aria brand preferred
1/3 c. water
1/2 t. instant yeast (SAF brand)
1/2 t. sea salt
Olive oil, for oiling the bowl

Before starting the dough for this recipe, preheat the oven and a pizza stone to their highest possible temperature (usually around 500-550 degrees F), and, using a proofing box, set the proofing box to its highest setting, around 120 degrees F.  This is higher than the normal temperature range for instant yeast, but still considerably below the temperature (around 138-140 degrees F) that will kill the yeast.  

To make the dough, place the water in a 1-cup glass measuring cup and heat it in a microwave oven for about 20-25 seconds.  The temperature of the water, as measured on an instant-read thermometer, should be around 115-120 degrees F.  Put the flour and yeast in the bowl of a food processor and pulse to combine.  With the motor running, add the warm water.  Process until the ingredients come together to form a ball between the blade and the processor bowl, and continue processing until the dough is smooth, adjusting the amount of flour and water if necessary, about another 30 seconds.  Add the salt and continue processing for about another 10-15 seconds, or until the salt is fully incorporated and the dough ball is smooth and capable of passing the windowpane test.  At this point, the dough will be quite warm (the food processor itself will add several degrees to the dough temperature because of the frictional heat produced by the processor). Remove the dough ball from the processor bowl and put it in a lightly oiled bowl (a 2-cup size glass-measuring cup will also do).   The bowl should be the smallest bowl that will hold the dough when it has about doubled in volume (so that the energy from the proofing box isn't wasted on the bowl).  Cover the bowl with plastic wrap (or use a hotel shower cap) and put it in the proofing box.  Let the dough rise in the proofing box until about doubled in volume, about 30-40 minutes. (To check, press a finger into the dough; if the indentation remains, the dough is ready to use.)  

As the dough is rising, the toppings to be used on the pizza should be readied (they should be few and light for a 00-based pizza).  When the dough has risen, move it to a lightly floured work surface and pat and stretch the dough to a round with a thickness of about 1/4-inch.  The diameter of the pizza round should be about 8-9 inches.  Finish the pizza by placing the pizza round on a lightly floured pizza peel, adding the desired toppings, and baking the pizza until the bottom of the crust is light brown, about 6-7 minutes for a minimalist pizza with few toppings.  The top of the crust will be a light tan color characteristic of pizza crusts made with a low protein flour and without the use of a sweetener or olive oil in the dough.  Estimated total time for producing the pizza: About 1 hour.

(Peter's Note: It is also possible to combine the 00 flour with a small amount of bread flour or a small amount of vital wheat gluten to slightly increase the protein and gluten content of the 00 flour. Also, I have made this pizza without using any olive oil, even for the container used to hold the dough during rising.  However, the addition of some oil to the dough may have the effect of tenderizing the crust and increasing its crispiness, if such is desired.  I do not recommend that bread or high-gluten flour be used in this recipe.  The resulting pizza crust will not look or taste like a normal bread flour or high-gluten flour crust.  It will have a nice brown color, as is typical with high protein flours like bread and high-gluten flour, but it will have few bubbles, it will be rather flat than puffy, and it will taste more like cardboard.)

Peter

Offline Randy

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2004, 09:18:49 AM »
Peter, on my cinnamon roll recipe I have been working with the temperature of the liquids and how much flour to mix it with in the beginning.  Yesterday I went to 125 deg F and in the mixer bowl with the paddle put two cups(scooped) of flour that I  had already weighed out and two packages of SAF yeast plus 2/3 cup sugar.  The final dough temp was 90degF.  The resulting baked goods were airy and light with a very nice crumb structure.  

The last New York, well American pizza dough I raised the water temperature and got my big bubbles back.

Bottom line, the warmer water will give you a lighter, airier baked product seems like.

Randy

Peter

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2004, 11:03:29 AM »
Randy,

Was the water temperature change for the NY/American pizza dough the only change you made to your basic recipe?   Also, can you refresh my memory on how much yeast you use (by baker's percent if you have it), the type of yeast you use, and how long a fermentation period you use and if it is the refrigerator?  Like you, I like bubbles in my crust, and I am wondering whether the bubbles are due to factors other than water temperature (or going from cold dough to the oven).  I usually use small amounts of yeast (instant yeast), sometimes less than 1/8 teaspoon for two roughly 14-inch pizzas (the largest I can get on my peel), and I get bubbles in the crust.  The last time I did this was for a NY style pizza, with a minimum of a 24-hour fermentation period in the refrigerator, normal water temperature, roughly 80-degree dough temperature, and using no sugar in the dough.

Thanks.

Peter

Offline Steve

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2004, 12:26:34 PM »
Peter -- please feel free to become a member of the forum -- it's free and easy. Just click the "register" button at the top of the page.  :)
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Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2004, 01:24:10 PM »
Ahhhhh Beeannnss !!!!!!!!!! >:(
As I kept reading down the post, it became evident to me that I had forgotten someting in the dough I had just made and put in the fridge. Sugar/honey, which I always add.  Well thats one way to expereiment, forget your recipe. I guess going on vacation will do that to ya.

I swear I am going to just start putting my medication on my pizza or in my dough, that way I won't forget the recipe or to take the medication.

I did try something different however I added some of the King Arthur pizza dough seasoning to my mix. I'll see if i like it before I duplicate the mix.

Oh yeah, Peter I would most definately like some help in obtaining some 00 flour, so if you could point me in the right direction I would be very thankful.  ;D
Also thank you for taking the time to post your recipe for me. :) :)
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Peter

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2004, 03:09:00 PM »
Foccaciaman,

After spending a fair amount of Internet time trying to find places where I can buy 00 flour in the U.S., either online or by calling,  I concluded that there are basically four brands of imported Italian 00 flour sold in the U.S.  Two of them I ruled out because, even though they say they are 00 flour, the percentage of protein seems to be much higher than the low-protein flour that is commonly used to make authentic Neapolitan style pizza dough (around 7%).  I have read that in Italy the grading of flour is based on the fineness of the milling, not necessarily the protein content.  I have visited the websites of several Italian millers and that seems to be true.  I saw 00 flour all over the place with very high protein content.  This left me with two brands to consider: Bel Aria and Delverde.   Bel Aria has 7.4% protein and Delverde appears to have around 9% if I have properly interpreted the rather cryptic packaging information.   As between the two, I much prefer the Bel Aria brand.  It produces a nice, soft, chewy crust characteristic of the Neapolitan style, whereas the Delverde crust is harder and less chewy.  The Delverde dough also is less extensible than one made with the Bel Aria brand.  It took me a lot of doctoring of the Delverde 00 flour to get it to produce an acceptable dough and crust.

King Arthur also puts out an Italian-style flour, with 8.5% protein, that it says mirrors or is a clone of the imported 00 flour.  I tried it and didn't like it at all, especially when compared against the Bel Aria brand.  I had to doctor that one also to get it to work.

I have set forth below the places I found where you can get the Bel Aria and Delverde 00 flours.  That way, if you want to compare the two brands for yourself and decide which you prefer, you have places to go to order the flours.  Of the places listed, I prefer PennMac.  It has the best prices.  It also has a good selection of San Marzano tomatoes at lower prices than most, including the much sought after DOP SM tomatoes.  And if you call PennMac and speak to Rose, I think you can lobby for a case quote, at least as to the SM tomatoes and quite possibly the 00 flour (the website doesn't allow for ordering by the case) . To begin with, you might just want to try a few bags of the 00 flour.

Here's my list of sources of "00" flour:

Pennsylvania Macaroni Company: http://www.pennmac.com/page/1 (Bel Aria brand, look under Rice & Grains tab)

Todaro Brothers: http://www.todarobros.com/flour_grain.asp (Bel Aria brand; also sells cow's milk curd for those who wish to make their own fresh mozzarella at home)

Salumeria: http://www.salumeriaitaliana.com/acb/showprod.cfm?DID=10&CATID=7&ObjectGroup_ID=27 (Bel Aria brand)

Chefs Warehouse: http://www.chefswarehouse.com/Search/SearchResult.aspx?KeyString=ACH (search for "Bel Aria flour" in the search box.  This company also sells the Molino Caputo brand of 00 flour, but it has 11.5-12.5% protein, which is far higher than what is best used for the classic Neapolitan pizza dough)

Gourmet Fare: http://www.gourmetfare.com/shoppe/products/cat04_del001.shtml (Delverde brand; this site uses PayPal and assesses a handling charge.)

Foccachiaman, I tried to verify the Salumeria link but discovered that the website is down for a while because of the Democrat's convention in Boston.   Good luck and let me know if you need any further information on the 00 flour.

Peter

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2004, 10:37:41 PM »
Thank you very much for the info on the 00 I will try to order some up shortly to get some experimentation going. I will let you know the results. :)
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Offline Steve

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2004, 08:13:40 AM »
Here's my list of sources of "00" flour:

Pennsylvania Macaroni Company: http://www.pennmac.com/page/1 (Bel Aria brand, look under Rice & Grains tab)

[snip]

I ordered some "00" flour from PennMac and the flour was rancid.  :-\
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Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2004, 08:57:47 AM »
Thanks for the tip, I will use one of the other distributers just in case. :)
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Peter

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2004, 11:41:09 AM »
Foccaciaman,

I am in Mexico this week on vacation, along with a bag of Bel Aria 00 flour that I bought a couple of weeks ago from PennMac.  I have bought the flour before from PennMac without incident, and I  believe the latest purchase is fresh since it was back ordered because PennMac had run run out of the flour.  Since I plan to use the Bel Aria flour over the weekend to make pizzas, I opened the bag today and looked, smelled and even tasted the flour to see if it is OK.  It appears to be.  I also noticed from the label information on the bag that the flour has no fat, which I usually associate with rancidity, which is the oxidation of fat.   I suspect, however, that the flour can become stale, and I hope that Steve's experience with the flour was a fluke or isolated incident--maybe a bad batch that escaped the miller's quality control or the flour was subsequently improperly handled or stored.

If you still have misgivings, Todaro's and Salumeria may be good alternatives.  They both operate retail outlets where they sell to locals (Salumeria is even in the Italian North End section of Boston).   So, they may faster inventory turnover than PennMac.

When I get back home I plan to call PennMac to discuss the matter with them.   I know that importation of flours and other food items carries higher risks that domestic food items, and especially so where the volume of the imported items is small, as is the case with the Bel Aria flour, but we still need to have the best and freshest ingredients for our pizzas.

Peter
P.S.  Before leaving town, I read your piece on your experience with the pizzaiolo devil and was howling.  It was a magnificent piece of writing.

Offline RoadPizza

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2004, 10:32:27 AM »
It really depends on when you'd like to use your dough ball.  If you use 65F water, you can leave the dough balls out for a couple of hours (covered, of course) and then use them.  If you use water that's around 20F cooler, you can leave the dough balls out a couple of hours before putting them in the chiller for the next day's use.

Offline ilpizzaiolo

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2004, 01:54:24 AM »
regarding the higher protien content of the  ' 00 ' caputo pizzeria flour... that is a good thing and is intentional.. this flour is specifically blended to create the true neapolitan pizza. this product basically replaces the procedure that many pizzeria's in naples do of blending 15% manitoba (flour from north america) with 85% 00 flour.... to achieve better absorption and elasticity. I have been using it for a long time now and get exceptional results... great texture, performance, flavor.... very high quality and used by many of the best pizzerie in napoli!

ciao


Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2004, 08:46:30 PM »
il pizzaiolo,

I was wondering where you get the Molino Caputo 00 flour.  I know of one importer, Orlando Food Sales, that imports the Caputo 00 flour, and one online retailer (chefswarehouse.com) that sells in large bags (I believe it is 25 pound bags), but I don't know of any domestic sources that sell small amounts for home bakers.  

Since you are familiar with the 00 flour, do you happen to know the protein content of the Bel Aria and Delverde 00 flours?  I believe they are much lower than the Caputo 00 flour, which is something like 11.5-12.5%, if memory serves me correct.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 19, 2004, 09:56:15 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline ilpizzaiolo

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Re:Dough Temperature
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2004, 02:34:46 AM »
Pennsylvania Macaroni Co. in pittsburgh is getting if for me, but it only comes in 25 kilo bags (55 lb)..... I do know that it is packaged in small bags (like 2 kilo or something) but penn mac does not have it... he is getting his product from orlando...   does orlando have the 2k bag?  I would agree with you that the typical 00 flours are slightly lower in protien.. perhaps 10.7%... the caputo being spec'd at 11.5 - 12.5% I could possibly send you some if you would like... or I don't know where you are, but I will be in NYC from october 31 - november 4th for the pmq pizza show... I could bring it there...

ciao

 - ron




 

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