Cold Rise vs. Warm Rise

[yongjoo]

I've been reading a lot about people's different cold rise, warm rise, or combo rises techniques on this board. Obviously, the benefit of the cold rise is that it slows the whole rise process down so that you can have a) dough for another day and/or b) you have a larger window to when your dough is ready for baking. I've been doing a combo starting with a warm rise and then throwing it in the fridge. I still want to mess with my timings. I have tried to start with a cold rise and then a warm rise, but had no real success with that. But that was also when my starter was a week old. So, I think I'll have to do that test again.

Anyone have a system they swear by and why? Or any benefits with any of the rises or reasons why one is worse than the other? 

[pcampbell]

I think a longer, cold rise, is supposed to develop more flavor. 

[Bill/SFNM]

This is an issue I've been going back and forth on. The problem is in coming up with a side-by-side tasting of pizzas from the same batch of dough that has been allowed to develop under different conditions. Warm rise dough will be at its peak sooner than cold rise making such a side-by-side test difficult.

Also, different starter cultures have different responses to different conditions. What works best for my Camaldoli when making pizza dough seems very different than what works best for my French starter when making baguettes. And what works for me may NOT be the best under your conditions.

This past week I created a single batch of dough and divided it into two containers. One was bulk fermented at room temp (~68F) for 15 hours, shaped, and proofed for 4 hours. The other was bulk fermented for 15 hours, retarded for 2 days, and proofed for 6 hours. These intervals were not randomly chosen.

The problem is trying to compare the quality of a bite of pizza to one you tasted 2 days ago. My taste memory (as well as the rest of my memory!) just isn't that precise. But the more pies I make this way, the more I am finding the room temp pies are better - softer with that ultra-thin layer of crispiness on the outside. I can't say the flavor is much different.

Bill/SFNM   

[DWChun]

I'm new to pizza making so I don't have any solid advice/experience to offer but I usually do a combination of warm and cold rise. This is mainly because I knead my dough by hand and I usually use a preferment for my New York style pizzas. I found a result similar to Bill's observations with regards to the dough exhibiting a softer structure while having a crisp outer layer that is quite thin.

As far as taste, I haven't done a taste test yet but I am actually preparing two batches of dough to be tested tomorrow. I have a batch rising in my refrigerator(a 4 hour preferment, roughly 2 hour warm rise, 36 hour cold rise, and then a 1 hour counter rise before going into the oven) and I'm going to be putting together a warm rise batch(preferment is going to be 4 hours and then combine with the rest of the dough ingredients for an additional 14 hour warm rise). However, I am using ADY so I don't know how significant a difference there will be in taste.

[DWChun]

I've done the taste test and the cold rise batch had the edge in taste. The warm rise was bland in comparison to the cold rise. I also have to correct myself and say that I used IDY and not ADY. I think using a yeast culture that isn't ADY or IDY would yield better results.

[scpizza]

One taste test I did yielded a negligible difference:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2191.msg41514.html#msg41514

Anecdotally though I have perceived a difference, with longer doughs having more flavor.  Don't know if that's a psychological effect, or if my taste test recipe wasn't sufficiently consistent across batches and more tests are needed.

[yongjoo]

So for the past few weeks, I've been making my dough (2 pies). Testing a full warm rise (8 to 9 hours) on one and a cold rise (4 to 6 days) on the other and then have it out for 1 to 2 hours before baking (Varasano-esque). And I have to say the tastes are almost similar (hard to tell, cause I'm not eating them on the same day) but the texture is very different. The rises are similar, but the warm rise is almost more chewy than the cold rise. Almost like a staler texture. That sounds bad, but if I only knew the warm rise, I wouldn't think it was bad or stale. But with the side-by-side comparison, it's almost as if the warm rise pizza was out for a day.

I might have to also test a longer warm rise? I never thought of leaving it out for 15 hours. This is the first time I'm hearing anyone doing that. I also have been feeding my starter 2 days before I use it. Which I feel I get a better rise, similar to those who proof the starter twice before using.

Anyway, right now, I'm all about the cold rise. Besides, the better texture, it's so much more convenient: make the dough one day and cook another.

[Kinsman]

My evidence is anecdotal as well; I never have done a double-blind test with at least six judges, so can't really claim to be completely objective.....but I don't think there is much difference.  Not so's you'd notice once you put garlic and tomato on the thing anyway.

[scott r]

I have run lots of side by side test.  As far as I can tell you can do an exceptional pizza both ways.  It does seem like the cold rise can have a slightly better flavor, and the warm rise can have a slightly better texture.  All my warm rise doughs are 15-24 hours at 60-70 degrees and a dual rise, so they use tiny amounts of yeast.  All my cold rise doughs use about double that amount of yeast and are used somewhere around 3-7 days.

My conclusion on this debate is that it does not make a huge difference either way.  I notice it, but my friends dont. Don't forget that some flours are designed for cold rise, and some for warm rise, so using the proper technique for a given flour can help tip the scales resulting in one type winning out over the other.

[JerryMac]

Hew Guys,

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. About 2 months ago I started making my dough with a poolish I let proof at room temp for about 3 hours then make the dough which rises and proofs at room temp for about 5 hours. Including the poolish, I guess you could say this is about 8 hrs fermentation at room temp.

I like the texture ( a little more crispy on the outside but still moist and chewy on the inside ) and the flavor ( a little bit more tangy, from the poolish I think ) better than cold (retarded) dough 

Mangia Bene 
Jerry

[Kinsman]

Jerry,

My dough is made about the same as yours, a five (or six or seven) hour proof at room temp.  I use a flour which is about 14% protein.  Pizza crust is just like you say....crunchy on the outside, chewy and moist on the inside, with some air bubbles (I make a pretty wet dough).

Perfect by my standards.

[michael farina]

hello, this is my first post, and will procede to the intros next.. Ive just did two separate tests a week apart, 1st  was a variation of peter reinharts Neapolitan recipe.. same day variation.. and a week later day in advance, the same day variant was as described above had much better texture, and flavor IMO for that matter.. i did however make my dough wetter (hydration % Unknown) as far as feel very soft and supple, just outside of wet) my next test will be splitting a batch dry make my cold rise and then on "game day" do a warm rise.. i do attribute my 1st success to forest gumping it lol..
well my .02 off to intro and might i add great site