Made some pizza last night

[November]

When I gave an estimate of 12g per tablespoon, I overestimated assuming your "heaping" was probably more than normal, but that's a lot of heaping.  My suggestion is that I really wouldn't pass around that recipe with the term "heaping" anymore; just say "four level" tablespoons.  "Heaping" is technically closer to level multiplied by the square root of two, or ~1.414, for reasons of natural geometry.  In the case of 32.5g of VWG, your protein is then at 14.17104%, which puts it into high-gluten flour territory.

- red.november

EDIT: I rescind my statement of heaping geometry.  I was thinking of "rounded."  "Heaping" has no context whatsoever and really can't be reliably duplicated.  It's supposedly defined as "as much as the measuring device can hold" but if I have a deep and narrow spoon, and someone else has a shallow and wide spoon, the two measurements will be grossly different.  My suggestion of stating four level tablespoons still stands.

[turbosundance]

I think the lines you see are from when I stretch the dough on the parchment paper.  When the dough springs back it makes the parchment bunch up under the dough.  I think this caused parts of the bottom of the pizza to be lifted off the stone when being cooked causing these lines.  The stone I use is one of those smooth round stones you can buy at most kitchen departments.

[SemperFi]

I was actually thinking that while I was working out this morning.  Either way, its a damn fine looking pie.  Adam

[turbosundance]

Thanks!  I'm very happy with the results. My wife has started calling my Tony and complains that I'm obsessed with making pizza

[SemperFi]

Thanks!  I'm very happy with the results. My wife has started calling my Tony and complains that I'm obsessed with making pizza

Yeah, my wife thinks that I am obsessed with it too!  I just want to know how to do it, do it right, and do it right consistently.  Its areal challenge for me, I am a professional chef, but baking is totally different than cooking.  There are exact measurements in baking, and failure to follow them gives you a lackluster product.  But I have faith that I will do it right this week.  I am going to try Peter's KA recipe with a 10% poolish, and a Canadave recipe, also with a 10% poolish.  Hopefully Friday night will be my night!  Adam

[SemperFi]

Thanks!  I'm very happy with the results. My wife has started calling my Tony and complains that I'm obsessed with making pizza

You should have seen when I was on my Taco, Rice and Cheese kick last year.  I used to be a Marine, and every Marine gets his share of spending time on the "Rock" (Okinawa).  Well, out in the ville, they serve this, well, basically taco meat on a bed of rice, topped with cheese and a Tbs of salsa. Sounds easy enough right?  I am on my 6th year of trying to replicate it.  Its the seasoning that is slightly off, or maybe the meat blend.  Beats me, every Marine that I run into, I ask them  Did you crack the code?"  Oh well, maybe its because I never ate it sober.  Adam

[Pete-zza]

I use AP flour (usually Robin hood but I used red rose or something this time)

turbosundance,

Do you mean Five Roses flour instead of Red Rose flour?

Peter

[turbosundance]

Yeah!  Five roses it is.  I must have been thinking of the red rose tea.  I only have the five roses stuff because it was on sale.  10kg (22lbs) for $7.00.  Not a wonderful price but oh well

[Pete-zza]

turbosundance,

I made a couple of calls to Canada this morning, using 800 numbers I found at the websites for Five Roses and Robin Hood, and was able to speak with someone to get the protein percent numbers for the all-purpose forms of those flours. For the Five Roses, it is 13%; for Robin Hood, it is 12%, or the same as our domestic General Mills Harvest King flour. FYI, both flour brands have a common owner, Smucker Foods of Canada, Inc.

Using forum member November's tool as referenced in one of my earlier posts, I established that the percent protein in your Five Roses all-purpose Bob's Red Mill vital wheat gluten blend is 16.71%, based on 32.5 grams of VWG. The corresponding number for the Robin Hood all-purpose/Bob's Red Mill VWG blend comes to 15.77%. If my use of the tool was correct, that would place your overall protein percent above even high-gluten flour.

Peter

[turbosundance]

Are there side effects to having a dough with such a high protein content?  I don't find the dough to be overly tough or chewy.  A lot of local pizza joints have dough that is far tougher than mine.

[November]

If my use of the tool was correct, that would place your overall protein percent above even high-gluten flour.

It was correct: 16.7095% with Five Roses, and 15.76933% with Robin Hood.  I also added the two flours to the database.

- red.november

[Pete-zza]

Are there side effects to having a dough with such a high protein content?  I don't find the dough to be overly tough or chewy.

turbosundance,

I have never used VWG at as high a rate as you used, so I can't personally comment on the effects on the crust characteristics. Also, your blend wouldn't be identical to a flour that naturally has as high a protein content. The closest from a protein standpoint would most likely be whole wheat flour. But such a flour would have a lot of other differences, such as a higher bran and germ content, higher mineral and fat values, etc., that are not present in either of your two white flours to the same degree because they were milled out of them. My view is that if you like the results, that is all that should matter. But for others to replicate what you have done, they perhaps should use all-purpose flours and supplement them with vital wheat gluten along the lines you did. November's tool is great because users don't have to be limited to the same brands of flour and vital wheat gluten you used. Users can pick and choose their flours and VWG brands and get the proper balance of flour and VWG. Now that November has added the two Canadian flours, the tool should be even more useful, particularly since we have many Canadian members who perhaps have the same flour choices as you do.

Peter

[Scagnetti]

turbosundance,

I hate to tinker with success, but if you haven't already done so, you might want to check out member November's "Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator" at http://tools.foodsim.com/. The calculator is the one on the right hand side of the page. With that tool, you can determine how much vital wheat gluten to add to your basic all-purpose flour to achieve a targeted protein content. For example, if you are using an all-purpose flour, you might select the Generic All-Purpose flour as substance A in the top pull-down menu. For substance B, you would select the Bob's Red Mill Vital Wheat Gluten from the lower pull-down menu. For the "Mass" block you would enter the weight of the flour in your dough formula. In the % block, you would enter the targeted final protein content. For example, if you want to simulate bread flour, you could use something like 12.7%. The tool will tell you how much of your all-purpose flour (Mass A) and vital wheat gluten (Mass B) to use to get the targeted 12.7% protein level.

Peter

Peter,

I'm a long time Arrowhead Mills VWG/KA Bread Flour user.

Here's the unmodified ingredient list of my latest dough d'jour (two 16" pies):               
               
Flour (100.00%):           678.79 g  |  23.94 oz | 1.50 lbs               
Water  (63.00%):          427.64 g  |  15.08 oz | 0.94 lbs               
Oil        (2.00%):            13.58 g  |     .48 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.91 tsp | 0.97 tbsp               
Salt      (1.75%):            11.88 g  |     .42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.47 tsp | 0.82 tbsp               
IDY       (0.20%):             1.36 g  |     .05 oz |    00 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp               
Sugar    (1.00%):             6.79 g  |     .24 oz |   .01 lbs |  1.7 tsp  | 0.57 tbsp               

Total (167.95%):      1140.02 g  |  40.21 oz | 2.51 lbs | TF = 0.1   

Here's the modified version:
                              Oz          Gm
Flour                    23.94     678.79
Water                  15.08     427.64
VWG                        0.60       17.00
VWG Water             0.90       25.45
Oil                        0.48      13.58
Salt                      0.42      11.88
IDY                       0.05        1.36
Sugar                    0.24        6.79

I've tried using the "Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator" to prove my VWG arithmetic but I'm not sure that I'm doing it right.

Am I using the correct amount of VWG to flour?
            

[November]

Scagnetti,

I'm not sure what the VWG water is for, but if you want a total of 678.79 g of flour, that's what you enter in the target mass field.  You then enter the protein percentage you want to bring your flour up to into the target percentage field.  The two resulting masses will be the proportions of flour and VWG you use.  Water does not have anything to do with this process.

Attached is an example with 14.2% (King Arthur Sir Lancelot) as the target protein percentage.

- red.november

[Pete-zza]

November,

Where the "VWG water" comes from is Tom Lehmann, who recommends that one using VWG add about 1 1/2 to 2 times the weight of VWG in additional water, for hydration adjustment purposes.

Peter

[November]

Where the "VWG water" comes from is Tom Lehmann, who recommends that one using VWG add about 1 1/2 to 2 times the weight of VWG in additional water, for hydration adjustment purposes.

Oh, yeah.  That little gem.  It still stands that water has nothing to do with the process described by you regarding the tool though, which is what I thought Scagnetti was addressing, indicated by quoting you and using the tool.

- red.november

[Pete-zza]

November,

You are correct. It has nothing to do with the calculator.

Peter

[marty]

I like the looks of this pizza "GREAT JOB"

However reading through the threads I didnt see where you explained the texture of the outer crust.

Is it crispy like a thin crust or kinda soft like a dominos (is the only way to compare) what I was asking.

Thanks,

Marty

[turbosundance]

The outer crust is crispy and not soft like dominos.  The inside is soft and chewy with irregular sized voids. The pizza wasn't exactly round because I was in a hurry to eat.  The pizzas I made before this one were much more pretty.

[MWTC]

Turbo,

What is your line of thought on using AP with VWG?  Why not just use KASL or something similar?

MWTC