Author Topic: the right ingredients..some great pies  (Read 2007 times)

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Offline imshell

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the right ingredients..some great pies
« on: April 12, 2007, 10:16:40 AM »
My best friend's husband owns a bakery supply co. and brought me a 50 lb bag of his hi-gluten flour. I used the lehmann calculator to make my pies and WOW these pies were delicious.  I used a trick from my favorite pizzeria (Maruccas in Seaside Hts, NJ):  I put the cheese on first and then dribbled the sauce with a ladel in a big spiral.  I'm hoping I can duplicate my success!



Offline canadianbacon

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 11:01:51 AM »
The pizza looks great, and the 2nd image really gives me a good impression
that it really was very good.

Thanks for sharing !  :chef:
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline DWChun

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 11:04:25 AM »
Wowee! Great looking pizza. :)

Offline imshell

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 03:57:10 PM »
Can anyone address the bubbles in the dough?  After I let it warm up out of the fridge and then take it out to roll it is full of little bubbles that pop as I work it.  If I don't work them all out I get big crust bubbles when I cook it.  Is it something I'm doing wrong in the mixing?  I use the Lehmann calculator and mix it in a bread maker on the dough cycle for 6 minutes then put it straight in the fridge for 3 days or so. I take it out about 3 hours before I plan to cook.  Any help would be appreciated.

Offline sanchez

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 05:05:18 PM »
I actually perfer my outside crust to be airy and bubbly.  WHen I open the oven after about two minutes I take the pizza slicer and slit any of the huge bubbles that may pop up on my crust.  If there are no huge bubbles I quickly shut the door and cook for another couple of minutes until it's done.  I don't like rolling out a crust.  I'd prefer to shape by hand as to not totally flatten the dough.

Offline chiguy

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 05:06:37 PM »
 Hi imshell,
 Well the pizza you made looks fine to me
Can anyone address the bubbles in the dough?  After I let it warm up out of the fridge and then take it out to roll it is full of little bubbles that pop as I work it.  If I don't work them all out I get big crust bubbles when I cook it.  Is it something I'm doing wrong in the mixing?  I use the Lehmann calculator and mix it in a bread maker on the dough cycle for 6 minutes then put it straight in the fridge for 3 days or so. I take it out about 3 hours before I plan to cook.  Any help would be appreciated.
The Lehmann calculator is to help calculate formula percentages. Although it's a nice tool it has no mention of finished dough temperatures. The dough temp is just as important if not more than the formula itself. If you were to hold for three days you may want to be below 78F for a finished dough temperature and maybe as low as 72F. These are just some estimates if you are following the retarded dough formula Lehmann method.
 Without knowing you're formula, yeast type & percent used along with a finished dough temperature it is hard too pinpoint the exact reason for the bubbles.
 Although i do suspect that the finished dough temperature is a bit too warm going into the refridge. It could be water temp, or the bread machine creating the excess heat. Also cross stacking for 1 hour in the fridge helps cool the dough down faster.
 Just remember when the finished dough temperatures are too high it can reduce the life of the dough.
Again the picture of that pizza looks fine to me, nice color etc.     Chiguy
  

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 05:11:54 PM »
imshell,

I agree with chiguy that it would help to know the precise dough recipe you used. It will also help to know whether the water used to make the dough was at room temperature, or cold out of the refrigerator, etc.

Peter

Offline ZekeTheCat

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 08:25:27 PM »
Was curious , what size pizza is it and how much cheese and sauce did you use ?  A yummy looking pizza to say the least - any details are greatly appreciated.

Offline imshell

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 12:11:28 PM »
2 16 oz doughs:
24.13 oz high gluten flour
15.68 oz water (65% hydration) I use "very warm" tap water which I do not take the temp of
.39 tsp IDY
.61 tsp table salt
3/4 tsp olive oil

I put the water and salt into the bread maker and stir it.  Then I add the flour and yeast and turn on the dough cycle.  When all the flour has been picked up (maybe 2 mins into it) I add the olive oil.  I leave the kneading cycle on for a total of 6 minutes.  I take it out and put it into a round, lightly oiled Tupperware and straight into the fridge for 2 or 3 days. 

I will say that my dough feels very warm when I take it out of the bread machine. I have never taken it's temperature (what kind of thermometer do I use for this?)

As for the sauce and other particulars...I make my own sauce which is olive oil and garlic, then a can of red pack "tomato sauce" (just the can of plain tomato sauce, no spices, garlic or anything in it).  Cook for about an hour and at the end I add sugar, salt, red pepper and  oregano.  The cheese I use is (don't laugh) Shoprite shredded whole milk mozz.  I find it makes the best pizza for my taste.  And as I mentioned before, I put the cheese on the dough FIRST, then the sauce, then grated cheese on top.  I also cook it on a screen put on top of the stone for the first couple of mins then move it to the stone.

If I could just get rid of the bubbles, I'd be further along the road to pizza perfection...my dream!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2007, 02:03:06 PM »
imshell,

Thank you for posting your dough recipe. Is it possible that you meant that you are using the dough to make two 16” pizzas rather than two 16-ounce dough balls? When I worked with the numbers you provided, using the Lehmann dough calculator, I came up with the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (64.9814%):
IDY (0.17172%):
Salt (0.49769%):
Oil (0.496%):
Total (166.14681%):
684.05 g  |  24.13 oz | 1.51 lbs
444.51 g  |  15.68 oz | 0.98 lbs
1.17 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.39 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
3.4 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
3.39 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
1136.53 g | 40.09 oz | 2.51 lbs | TF = N/A

A total of 40 ounces of dough would be just about right to make two 16” pizzas. I realize that you could have used 32 ounces of the dough but you didn’t indicate that that was what you did.

As to your question about the bubbling, as I indicated before at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg28807.html#msg28807 (Reply 458), the most common causes for bubbling are the following:

1) Underfermentation or overfermentation of the dough (with underfermentation being the more common); 2) Using dough that is too cold at the time of shaping; 3) Using too little or too much yeast (with too much being more common): 4) Using incorrect or insufficient docking; and 5) Using an oven temperature that is too high, or some other oven-related problem. Of course, any combination of these will also produce the tendency to bubbling.

Based on what you said, if I had to speculate on the possible cause of bubbling in your case, I would say that it was a finished dough temperature that was too high and a salt level that was too low and, as a result, the dough overfermented by the time you used it, but not enough to render the dough completely unusable. It’s also possible that your oven temperature was too high but since you didn’t specify how you baked the pizza, it’s hard to say for sure that the oven was the cause. Unless you can establish that the oven was the cause based on your personal knowledge, I suggest that you use very cold water next time, and also increase the salt level to about 1.5-1.75% of the weight of flour. Salt is known as a “regulator” of the fermentation process, and using too little or too much can alter the rate and extent of fermentation. Since you are also using a high hydration (65%), which in itself causes a dough to ferment faster, the combination of high hydration, low salt level, and a high finished dough temperature could have conspired to cause the dough to overferment.

If you decide to adopt the recommended changes, and assuming that your oven temperature was not at fault, please let us know if your bubbling problem goes away. If you want to check your finished dough temperature, I suggest that you use a simple instant-read thermometer, preferably a digital one. Ideally, you want the finished dough temperature to be around 75-80 F. I usually shoot for an even lower finished dough temperature.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 04:03:48 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline imshell

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Re: the right ingredients..some great pies
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2007, 02:34:00 PM »
Peter,

I meant two 16 inch pizzas. My mind was working in ounces, not inches!  I bake it in a 550 oven preheated for an hour, but I don't think it's the over since the dough is popping as I'm kneading it.  I'm going to try and use cold water and take it's temp!  I'll report back on the next dough ball.  Thanks again!

Michele