Author Topic: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?  (Read 4660 times)

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Offline mzshan

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Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« on: April 06, 2007, 07:18:06 PM »
In expert Advice I need to know CLEAR step by step procedure on how Jeff V. Turned the Dough from patsy's he purchased into a Culture/Starter he uses to make his pies.
I like to know From How to Innitiate the Process Dough to Maintaining to Usage please..
I plan do to something similar from a local bakery..

thanks alot any expert advice would be very much appriciated...

thanks again

shan


Offline scott r

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2007, 09:44:30 PM »
Patsy's does not, and has never used wild yeast (starter culture).  What Jeff collected was wild yeast from his own kitchen that grew on dough that he brought back from Patsy's. I could be wrong, but I think Jeff himself has even confirmed this elsewhere on the forum.

Now this does not mean that what Jeff is using is not an amazing top notch starter (knowing that guy I am sure that it is!), but it just means that you might have just as much luck collecting your own wild starter in your own kitchen.

Of course you could always play it safe and get one of the excellent starters from Sourdough.com or King Arthur.  The advantage of the KA starters is that they come pre activated, and I find the activation process of the sourdough.com starters to be a big PITA.

Good luck Shan, and I am positive that you will enjoy the benefits that wild yeast will bring to your baking!

Offline grovemonkey

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2007, 10:33:57 PM »
scott,

Is it incorrect in thinking that even if you buy a sourdough starter from a place like sourdough.com.. your local yeast will eventually take over?

I've read that this is the end result, but is it true and does it really matter.   

grove

Offline scott r

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2007, 10:51:54 PM »
It is possible for a local strain to take over, but I believe some of our members such as BillSFNM have had excellent luck maintaining the proper characteristics of many different starters.  Just maintain a clean environment, don't leave your starter open all the time, and feed with fresh water and flour.  You should be fine for many years, and maybe forever.

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2007, 11:01:49 PM »
scott,

Is it incorrect in thinking that even if you buy a sourdough starter from a place like sourdough.com.. your local yeast will eventually take over?

I've read that this is the end result, but is it true and does it really matter.   

grove
It would take a huge amount of yeast to take over your sourdough starter. Think of how many 1000's of yeasties that's in the jar. A few wild yeast floating around your home don't have the numbers to over take what's in the jar. ;)
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Offline mzshan

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2007, 01:07:02 PM »
Gentlemen thank you all for clarifying some things how ever its still not answering the Ultimate question.. :)

There is a Commercial Local bakery that supply to my work ( I am a Cook by the way ) every day in the morning. That bakery is known for using all natural ingridiants in thier dough, I am assuming sourdough culture including the Foccacia they supply which has an excellent taste, that I am interested in capturing and turning it into a pizza dough. Also I plan to visit some places back home that make NAAN bread which I am sure dont use Commercial yeast.. but in order for me to do so.. I need specific step by step detailed instructions on HOW to take a ball of dough then, capture,  maintain, grow, and use the yeast... I already have the book by ed wood still in process of reading it for the 2nd time if nothing works I assure you it will be the Sourdough.com route I will eventually have to take. SO... if anyone has any slight idea that they can point me in the right direction of wouldlnd mind clearing a bit of mystery up It would be greatly appriciated....

thank you.

shan

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2007, 11:13:37 PM »
Gentlemen thank you all for clarifying some things how ever its still not answering the Ultimate question.. :)

There is a Commercial Local bakery that supply to my work ( I am a Cook by the way ) every day in the morning. That bakery is known for using all natural ingridiants in thier dough, I am assuming sourdough culture including the Foccacia they supply which has an excellent taste, that I am interested in capturing and turning it into a pizza dough. Also I plan to visit some places back home that make NAAN bread which I am sure dont use Commercial yeast.. but in order for me to do so.. I need specific step by step detailed instructions on HOW to take a ball of dough then, capture,  maintain, grow, and use the yeast... I already have the book by ed wood still in process of reading it for the 2nd time if nothing works I assure you it will be the Sourdough.com route I will eventually have to take. SO... if anyone has any slight idea that they can point me in the right direction of wouldlnd mind clearing a bit of mystery up It would be greatly appriciated....

thank you.

shan
Shan, If the bakery you speak of is willing to give you some of their starter then all you need to do is feed it. That's covered in Ed's book. If you are talking about getting their particular strain, not sure how you would go about that other than getting some of their starter. You can try and mix up 1 cup of flour and 1 cup of water in a bowl, and set that outside and try and catch a wild strain from your area. Either way all the info on how to feed and maintain your sourdough stater is in the book, somewhere around page 33-35 if i remember correctly. HTH, Bryan
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Offline mzshan

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2007, 12:31:18 AM »
yes byran that part I completly understood.. but.. if you go towards the back of the book there is a chapter called. "sourdoughs of or from the world" there Ed tells stories about every sourdough he aquired from his travels around the world, Including himself alsoi mentioning clearly that he bought raw unbaked dough bread which he fed maintained and then dried, converted into a liquid or sponge starter. that is what i like to figure out... by taking an unbaked dough how its fed and maintained and converted as a culture for use, grow....

I doubt the bakery would give me a starter dont think them self wont have one.. they probably mixing the day old left over to the new batch.


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2007, 12:59:53 AM »
Although I have never captured a culture in the way you propose, the solution seems pretty intuitive. Assuming you have a dough with live cultures, why not simply feed them water and flour in the ratios you would feed an activated starter? Based on my own feeding protocol, I would take 1 1/2 cups of the dough and work in 3/4 cup of flour and 1/2 cup of water. Once it has doubled I would repeat this process (1 and 1/2 cups of starter plus 3/4 cups of flour plus 1/2 cup of water) until I was satisfied I had a totally active starter. I am certain this would work starting with doughs made with any my starters, even if the dough were a few days old.

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Offline EdF

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2007, 11:50:49 AM »
That's the way I'd try it, too.

- Ed


Offline mzshan

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2007, 04:29:43 PM »
OK now that makes a bit of a sense..

taking dough and feeding it that is... is it possible to reverse the dough from a fully develop back to more of a batter? Liquid or sponge?

or it is more like cooking a steak once you pass your degree of doneness it is not possible to reverse for example you want to cook a medium but you cooked it a meduium well and its impossible to reverse to a medium only to a well..

:S LOL
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 04:34:08 PM by mzshan »

Offline EdF

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 05:21:11 PM »
The dough is a substrate for the yeast you're after.  Think of it as a seed.  Then you feed it and get your "culture".

Offline mzshan

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 05:25:23 PM »
makes more sense please gentlemen keep the good info coming I love to learn :)

P.S Bill/SFNM for making freash pasta you need Durum wheat is the grain of choice for semolina millers and producers of pasta products and couscous worldwide. even italians in italy get thier durum wheat from our canadian sources :).

http://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/Grl/durum/durum-e.htm.

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 06:56:08 PM »
The dough is a substrate for the yeast you're after.  Think of it as a seed.  Then you feed it and get your "culture".
Yes as Ed said, but Shan you'll want to make sure it's plain dough (flour water and starter), no salt, sugar, or milk in it.
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 07:05:18 PM »
Bryan,

There will likely be other ingredients in the dough, especially salt. But the cultures in it should still respond to feedings. Using the protocol I described above, the other ingredients will eventually be diluted to insignificance and for all practical purposes the only thing in the starter will be the cultures, flour, and water. Seems logical.

Bill/SFNM


Offline Bryan S

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2007, 07:25:20 PM »
Bryan,

There will likely be other ingredients in the dough, especially salt. But the cultures in it should still respond to feedings. Using the protocol I described above, the other ingredients will eventually be diluted to insignificance and for all practical purposes the only thing in the starter will be the cultures, flour, and water. Seems logical.

Bill/SFNM


Yeah i agree Bill as long as he's getting their starter and not ready to bake dough. Sugar wouldn't really hurt and the salt wouldn't be a factor for too long. But if there's milk in it I'd be worried about spoilage.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 07:26:59 PM by Bryan S »
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2007, 07:31:45 PM »
Yeah i agree Bill as long as he's getting their starter and not ready to bake dough.

Bryan,

I disagree. I think ready-to-bake dough would still respond to feedings and can be converted into starter as described. No idea what the effect of milk would be if present, but it is possible it would break down harmlessly rather than cause spoilage of the entire starter. Interesting to here how this turns out.

Bill/SFNM

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Pls Help Explain Converting Dough to Spong/Starter?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2007, 07:33:31 PM »
Bryan,

I disagree. I think ready-to-bake dough would still respond to feedings and can be converted into starter as described. No idea what the effect of milk would be if present, but it is possible it would break down harmlessly rather than cause spoilage of the entire starter. Interesting to here how this turns out.

Bill/SFNM
I meant to say as long as the ready to bake dough didn't have milk in it.  :-[
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