Hecker's and Ceresota Flours

[MWTC]

Evelyne,

I'm interested in New York Style and American Deep Dish style.

Peter directed me to your previously discussed issues per the listed threads. I have been taking it from there. Please discuss how to soften the outer crumb on your New York Style. I baked it at 550 degrees directly on the stone, loved it but it was a little tough on the outer crumb. I kneaded it to the silky point with my spiral hook on my KA mixer. The dough being 65% hydration caused me to knead it 15 min to get that silky feel. Should I reduce the knead time? Or add a little more flour, but that defeats the 65%. I will experiment with Peter's suggestions till We hear from you.

Peter,

When you suggested I activate the IDY with a little bit of the 65% at 110-115 degrees, what would be the temperature of the remaining water?

MWTC 

[Pete-zza]

When you suggested I activate the IDY with a little bit of the 65% at 110-115 degrees, what would be the temperature of the remaining water?

MWTC,

The remaining water can be at whatever temperature you decide to use, but cool enough to produce a finished dough temperature that is not so high as to cause the dough to rise too fast. I usually use cold water because I want to achieve long fermentation times. In her book, Evelyne says to use warm water for all of the formula water, so that is something you can consider if you are trying to replicate her recipe in a more exact sense, even if you substitute IDY for ADY. If you decide to go with all the water being warm, you may want to work the lower end of the initial 2-4 hour rise period.

You might also want to post how much dough you made, and also the pizza size and typical dough ball weight you used so that Evelyne has the complete picture before she posts.

Peter

[Bryan S]

Here's some pics of my first pizza with the Ceresota flour. As usual the dough was stretched right from the fridge, and was very easy to work with. The crust was really good and i got my usual large bubbles all over. This was my first pizza with AP flour and it turned out great. I still have a dough ball left I'll try to make that one at day 10. I'd use this flour again, the crust had great flavor. My only complaint is that it was slightly undercooked, and that's my fault.

[MWTC]

Brian S

How was the outer crust? I know you said it was a little undercooked, but did you find it a little tougher than your usual flour?

What was the oven temperature when you baked it?

How long was your knead time?

What was the water temperature?

Did you use ADY or IDY?

MWTC 

[Bryan S]

Brian S

How was the outer crust? I know you said it was a little undercooked, but did you find it a little tougher than your usual flour?

What was the oven temperature when you baked it?

How long was your knead time?

What was the water temperature?

Did you use ADY or IDY?

MWTC 

The crust was tender, a little more so than usual I'm guessing because it was slightly undercooked.

Oven temp was 550 on a screen.
 
I make all my dough the same way. I put room temp (around 68-70) spring water in the KA bowl, add sugar (if using some) salt, and IDY. I then sift the flour and after letting the yeast rehydrate for 5 min (i know it's not necessary with IDY but i do it any way because of my Home Brewing habits) i add the flour and mix with the spiral dough hook on speed 2 just till it comes together, less than 2 min. I then let it sit for 15 min and then add oil (if using it) do a final knead on speed 2 for 4-5 min. I then weigh out the dough balls to 20 oz hand knead in to a smooth ball, oil and place in a gladeware round container and in to the beer fridge (34-36 degrees) it goes for the cold ferment. I get very little rise in the fridge with my dough.
Edit: Here's my recipe for 2 - 20 oz balls for 16" pies

Flour (100%) 24.56 oz
Water (62%) 15.22 oz
IDY (0.33%) 0.76 tsp.
Salt (2%) 2.5 tsp.

Second Edit: MWTC, I use a KA Pro 600 with the spiral hook, which IMO does a really good job. For $219.00 and free shipping (yes it is a refurb) it gets the job done. I did make up 2 more dough balls tonight and I'll try like heck to make one on the 5 day mark. 

[MWTC]

Check out last nights New York Style Lombardi Formula with Heckers flour.

It had a thickness factor of .165 quite thick but excellent.

Recipe:

680 grams Heckers
442 grams 112 degree water = 65%
6.8 grams sea salt = 1%
1.7 gram IDY = .25%

15 min Knead,    Oil dough,    Four hour rise at less than 72 degrees

24 hour fridge ferment,   Produced 3 - 13oz doughs

2 hour counter rise,     Baked at 550 degrees directly on 1 hour preheated stone.

This pizza was 10 inch at 13 oz = Thickness factor of .165

Excellent voids and a more tender outer crumb.

A Classic, Thanks SLICEofSLOMON 

MWTC 



P.S.  Bryan S,   I use the KA Spiral Hook also.   I love it.   Much better than the c-hook.

[MWTC]

Check out last nights Lombardi's Style Pizza!!!

MWTC 

[Bryan S]

MWTC, That looks fantastic. 
I just made the 11 day old dough ball for my dinner tonight. It was by far the best one to date. The sauce was great (first time i really liked one of my sauces) and the crust was very flavorful. I didn't take a pic because I'm a little under the weather and to be honest all my pizza looks the same. Tonights pie looked no different than the pics of my pizza in this thread and some others.

[MWTC]

Thanks Bryan S.

I am also working on my sauce. Its always difficult to achieve that cut above results!
But that won't discourage me.

MWTC 

[Bryan S]

Another Ceresota Flour 11 day old dough pie. 

[WBH]

Bryan, or anyone that would know,

I have the KA KSM5 Proline model and it came with the standard (coated) dough hook and I notice that several here use the spiral hook.  Is it worth it to invest in the spiral hook or will the standard to a comparable job?

Great looking pizza's here btw!!

Thanks,

Bill

Bryan, nice avatar 

[Pete-zza]

Bill,

Others will know better than I but I don't believe that you can simply replace a C-hook with a spiral hook, which is what MWTC and Bryan used to make the doughs for the pizzas shown in this thread.

Peter

[Bryan S]

Bryan, or anyone that would know,

I have the KA KSM5 Proline model and it came with the standard (coated) dough hook and I notice that several here use the spiral hook.  Is it worth it to invest in the spiral hook or will the standard to a comparable job?

Great looking pizza's here btw!!

Thanks,

Bill

Bryan, nice avatar 

Bill, This is from the KA forum.
The Spiral Dough hook is limited to certain models, Professional 5 Plus (KV25 series) and the Professional 600 (KP26M series.) These models have been designed to use the spiral dough hook, which uses a more vertical action to process a load, compared to the horizontal action of the 'C' shaped dough hook.

Using the spiral dough hook on any other mixer models may cause harm to the mixer – and will void the warranty.

[pcampbell]

I just picked up a 10# bag of Hecker's.  Price here was just under $4.  You can find KA on sale for $2/5# but very rarely.  Usually about $3/5#.  I like the convenience of 10# bag.  5# is a little too small, anything bigger than 10# a little too big I'm sure.   I am not to that point yet where I need 25# or 50# - maybe soon  

So far have used it to make one pie, and really enjoyed it.    Small kitchen here so it is a nice in between so I do not have to have many open bags of flour for bread, pizza and cookies, pancakes etc. 

[Bryan S]

Well I'm still making my pies from the Ceresota flour and quite happy with it. I'm down to a 58% hydration dough and the feel of it is very close to what I remember from back in my working in a pizza shop days. Just made up 2 more dough balls and thought I'd post about how much I really like this flour. Since it's been so hot here I've been making all my pies out on the gas grill. Extremely happy with the results for a hand tossed but had a few heat issues with the pan pizza. Had to add my pizza stone to the grill when making the pan pies.  Later, Bryan

[Bryan S]

Making up a batch of the Ceresota AP flour dough for my NY Style pies right now as I type.  Good