Author Topic: Oil on dough during prep?  (Read 2062 times)

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Offline pizzaJoe

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Oil on dough during prep?
« on: April 19, 2007, 01:19:10 PM »
Hi,

I have a question or two (or three...) about oil put on the dough during prep.  The context of this question is in the prep of a Lehmann NY style pizza.  To quote the recipe "Wipe the dough balls with salad oil, and place into plastic dough boxes."

First off, what type of oil do people use?  I mean specifically: type (vegetable, canola, olive, ???) and brand name.

And, I'm embarassed to ask but how exactly do you "wipe" the dough ball?  :-[  Do you pour oil on the dough ball and then wipe it around by hand or do you use a brush or soaked paper towel or ???

Any estimate of how much oil do you use?  A drop or two, tblsp, 10 grams, ???

Do you put oil just on the dough ball or do you also put oil on the container before putting the dough into the container?

Some hopefully useful info about my dough prep procedure:
  - I'm making a thin crust NY style dough, my recipe is a variant of the standard Lehmann NY style dough.
  - I make enough dough for 4 pizzas at a time.
  - I mix the dough and then immediately portion it and form it into flattened "hockey pucks"  (Obligatory: Go Sharks!   ;D)
  - I have some dough tins, ala:
     http://www.foodservicedirect.com/index.cfm/S/311/N/1647/Dough_Retarding_and_Proofing_Pans.htm
  - I put my dough pucks each into a tin, oil and refrigerate two hours uncovered and then refrigerate further up to three days before use (typically only 24-36 hours though).
  - When I use the dough, I remove it from the fridge two hours ahead of time before forming, dressing and into the oven.

The pizzas I get from this dough taste great.  But, sometimes I seem to get over oily dough.  Also, the dough seems to stick to my tins more than I'd like.  Getting the dough out of the tins has made for more than one triangular pizza...   :-D

Comments, suggestions?

Thanks.

Joe
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Offline chiguy

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 02:02:28 PM »
 Hi pizzajoe,
 i am not sure of the actual type of cloth being used but it is smooth tight fabric.
 The cloth itself is oiled with squirt bottles... with probably a lower cost oil,vegtable etc.. The dough ball is scaled and wiped lightly with the oily cloth. It is not very much oil at all, just enough to coat the skin.
 Although when i watched Leamann do this he was using plastic dough boxes and i cannot recall if he lightly oiled them or not?
 For what its worth i always lightly oil my storage container which is glass or sometimes plastic tupperware.
 The metal container may be the problem with sticking.
                                   chiguy
 edit: The process i use is a can of canola spray for oiling my dough balls . I lightly give each ball a squirt and rub them with my hand.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 02:06:20 PM by chiguy »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 02:06:51 PM »
Joe,

Professional pizza operators who use plastic dough boxes usually only oil the tops of the dough balls. This is to keep the dough balls from drying out and developing a skin. I have never seen how the dough balls are actually "wiped" in a commercial setting, so I can't help you there. However, many operators use plastic bench scrapers to lift the dough balls out of the boxes. In a home setting, I usually put a few drops of oil on top of my dough balls and roll them so they are completely covered, even the bottoms. I do this because I use metal (or plastic) containers with limited access and I don't want the dough balls to stick to the containers.

As for the type of oil to use, that is a matter of personal choice. Most operators use vegetable oil or, for added flavor, a combination of vegetable oil or canola oil and olive oil. Today, most vegetable oils are soybean oil. Operators use a lot of soybean oil because it is usually the cheapest for them and is readily available from their wholesalers or foodservice companies. Brand per se is not an issue for them. Those who use olive oil may use pomace olive oil, again because it is cheaper than the best olive oils.

As for the amount of oil to use to coat the dough balls, I just use a few drops as noted above. I use just my fingers to coat the dough balls or shake and roll them until they are coated on all sides with oil. If you want to be technical about the amount of oil to coat the dough balls, you can use November's equation for apportioning the formula oil in a dough formulation between the inside of the dough and the outside surface. That expression uses the formula flour (in grams) and can be seen at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg40104.html#msg40104 (see Replies 61 and 62).

Peter

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2007, 02:50:12 PM »
I use one of those little pressure by pump spray bottles with EVOO.   When the dough ball is ready to go into the fridge, I give a quick spray on the bottom of my bowl.  I drop the dough ball in and flip it around a few times so the whole ball has a very light coating.

Patrick

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2007, 11:18:12 AM »
Okay, thanks for the feedback guys!   :D

I think I've been over-oiling my dough balls.   :-X  I know why too.  I had an incident where I thought a dough puck had dried out during "the two hours in the fridge uncovered" stage so, since then, I believe I've been putting too much oil on the dough.  I'm going to cut back and do some experiments.

I had been pouring maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablespoon on a 340g dough puck (I've converted to metric since my scale is more accurate with grams but that's just a hair under 12oz).  I'd then rub it around the dough by hand.  This is _after_ I'd already put some oil in the dough tin also!   :o

I like the idea of putting a bit in the tin first and then flipping my dough around to coat, I'm gonna go with that approach (thanks pcampbell!).   :chef:

I've been using Bertolli Pure Classico Olive Oil.  I like the flavor of that oil so I'll stick with it.  Just less of it.   ;)

Thanks.

Joe
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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 11:27:44 AM »
Joe,

Further to your original question about how dough balls are "wiped" with oil, it looks like using an ordinary spray bottle will do the trick, according to this PMQ Think Tank thread: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=14521#14521.

Peter

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 12:42:27 PM »
Hi Peter,

As always, you're a wealth of information, thanks!   ;)

I had thought of the spray bottle but have yet to pick one up.  What I've been doing in the meantime...

I like my dough tins, I don't want to give them up.  When not in use, they store easily in my kitchen and the ability to nest in the fridge and handle dough expansion nicely is unbeatable (to me).  Soooo, I didn't want to go the route of trying another type of storage.

With all that in mind, I've backed off on the oil as far as I think I can.  This is what I do now.  I put a small drop or two in each tin and rub it around so that it just coats the bottom and maybe 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the sides.  When I say a drop, I really mean just a drop.  (I still coat the tins to accommodate dough expansion)  Then I form my dough pucks on a big wooden board.  Before putting them each individually into a dough tin, I make a small dimple in the center of each with my index finger.  I put roughly two drops of oil in this "dimple".  Using a dough scraper in my right hand, I pick up a dough puck, flip it into my left hand, put the scraper down and flip the dough back and forth between left and right hands to very lightly coat with oil.  This maintains/reinforces the dough puck shape while coating.  Then it's into the lightly coated tins and then into the fridge.   :chef:

This method has been working fine for me the past couple weeks.  The doughs are coming out of the tins nicely and I'm not getting such an oily pizza anymore.   ;D  I think the sprayer will only make this method more consistent since I won't have to be so precise making oil droplets.

Thanks!

Joe
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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 01:06:32 PM »
Joe,

I might have noted in my last reply that I am not a good candidate for using a spray bottle to spritz my dough balls, given my low volume. To be convenient to me, I would want to keep the spray bottle in a kitchen cabinet. However, where I live in the Dallas area, where it is hot for a good part of the year, oils kept in my kitchen cabinet tend to degrade more quickly and even turn rancid. So, I keep all of my oils in a darkened and slightly cooler pantry. Also, I have learned that it is generally not a good idea for me to "stock up" on oils, especially in the summertime, no matter how good the quality or price. My mantra now is to buy high quality oils as fresh as possible and in relatively small quantities. I know that I could store my oils in my refrigerator, which I have done on occasion, but it usually takes too long for the oils to warm up and thin out to be a practical solution. I have even been thinking of using my new ThermoKool MR-138 unit to store my oils when I am not otherwise using the unit to ferment doughs. That may well be my best option.

For reasons similar to those given above, I also don't use those oil spray dispensers that were the rage a few years ago, or even oil cans, as much as I like the appearance and design of such oil cans. When I need to coat dough balls, I just drizzle oil directly from the bottle and return the bottle to my pantry.

Peter

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 01:17:12 PM »
Ooooo, good points Peter. I would not have had all that dawn on me till I'm sure I was far down the road to rancid oil!   :o
I don't go through oil that fast either (especially not now).  Hmmm, I'm thinking I might want to find a dishwasher safe eye dropper...  That way I could keep my stored oil quantities to a minimum but yet always have a clean and consistent method of dispensing the oil when I need it.  So many possibilities!   :D

Joe
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Offline November

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2007, 02:01:44 PM »
I keep "ready" oils in the cabinet above my stove where it is a minimum of 70°F.  When the stove is on, and for a long time, it climbs to around 88°F.  I have always had a problem with oils like soybean and corn going rancid in as little as a month, but the olive oil I use, and especially the rice bran oil, have never degraded to the point of visual or taste difference detection.  I keep one half-gallon container of rice bran oil, any bottles of olive oil I have, and one 500 mL bottle of 50/50 rice bran and olive oil mix in that cabinet.  I keep one half-gallon container of rice bran oil in the refrigerator, and all the other rarely used oils in another location in the kitchen.

When I get down to the last 20 grams of rice bran oil in my "ready" half-gallon container, I'm going to test several physical, thermal, and flavor properties of the many-month old oil and compare it to the same properties of the refrigerator-preserved oil.  I'm willing to bet there won't be much of a difference.

- red.november


Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 04:22:54 PM »
Red,

I'll be interested to hear the results of your oil testing!  Please post when you're done.   :chef:  By the way, could you send me or post the "brand" name of the rice bran oil?  I've heard it mentioned several times and have seen varieties in the store (mostly Asian mkts) however if I try it, I'd like to start with a somewhat known quantity.

As for your oil experiment, I'm doing something similar with freezing cheese...  Using several blocks of board-recognized cheese, I've been freezing and thawing cheese out over the past 6 months.  The results, although probably not surprising, will at least give some empirical numbers so that other may tailor their needs.  (I know freezing cheese is a sin but I also like managing my supply pipeline, which can be spotty).  I'll post a thread under the "cheese ingredient" topic when I complete my observations in about a month if anyone is interested.   :pizza:

Joe
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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2007, 06:15:22 PM »
Joe,

Please do post your results on the cheese project when they are ready.

Peter

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2007, 06:23:07 PM »
Joe,

Please do post your results on the cheese project when they are ready.

Peter
Peter,

In the short time I've been following this forum, my pizza making skill has increased probably 1000%.  I therefore feel it is my obligation to give back so it will be my pleasure to do so.   ;D  I'll be thawing out the last block over the long weekend coming up, using in the subsequent few weeks and a "New Topic" will follow.   :chef:

Joe
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Offline November

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Re: Oil on dough during prep?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 07:30:35 PM »
By the way, could you send me or post the "brand" name of the rice bran oil?


Tophé Rice Bran Oil
http://www.honestfoods.com/topgriloil.html

- red.november