Troubleshooting - Randy's American

[Seven]

I made the following version of Randy's American over the weekend after picking up some All Trumps flour.

16 oz Bread flour
9.8  oz Water by weight(warm 120deg.  F
1 TBS  sugar
1 TBS Honey
1 Tablespoon  Classico Olive Oil or vegtable oil
2  Teaspoon Salt
1 1/2 teaspoons bread machine yeast

I followed the directions perfectly (including a 12 minute knead on KA setting #2) and fermented the dough overnight in the fridge. I removed the dough 3 hours before shaping but had a lot of difficulty with the dough retaining its shape...it kept springing back after being stretched. I made the same recipe the week prior but used AP flour and slightly less (9.6 oz) water and the dough was very cooperative. Since I used HG flour instead of bread flour, should I have kneaded less or perhaps used more water? Taste wise, this was just what I was going for but it took a lot more effort to shape than I was expecting. Thanks!

[buceriasdon]

The dough will continue to delevop gluten as it rests in the fridge so yes, I would cut back to at most 4 minutes at speed two.
Don

[Seven]

Thanks, Don! So, generally speaking, a lower protein flour like AP or bread would require more kneading to develop the gluten? I'm not experienced enough to go by the feel or look of the dough but I'll get there eventually! Maybe I should try windowpane tests after every minute to familiarize myself with what's happening in the mixer.

[buceriasdon]

I would first up the hydration a few percent, closer to 64%, you're at .612 presently. Then if the elastic problem still is there then cut back the time in the KA. I did some reading on the rather spread out recipe over several threads but found a section where Peter had good success handling the dough at 6 minutes time using a high gluten flour. Typically I use 11.5 percent protein flour and have found no need to go over 5 minutes and have a good working dough as a result with an overnight cold ferment.
Don

[Seven]

Thanks again, Don. I'll try to cut back on the kneading before playing with the hydration since I'm not very good at working with a wetter dough at this point and 'm already at 64% hydration with the olive oil.

[buceriasdon]

Your welcome. It's so true, higher hydration dough can be a bear to learn on, however they can yield stellar results. It's where stretch and folds really become useful. Save it for later.
Don

[Seven]

I've made this recipe a couple more times but cut down on the kneading to 6 minutes, resulting in a much easier to open skin. I don't have pictures of the 1st successful attempt but my brother-in-law had no trouble stretching it to at least 18 inches before tightening it up to fit the 16 inch screen. I scaled the recipe to yield about 40 ounces of finished dough for two 16 inch pies that my wife and I made on Sunday. I'm very pleased with the results! Unfortunately, the pictures I took are too big to attach

[buceriasdon]

Seven, I'm pleased the dough is working better for you. I use and recommend this free easy to use resizer for internet use. Quick download. Once downloaded right click for Windows on the photo and then left click Optimize Here and you have a compressed photo.
http://www.imageoptimizer.net/Pages/Home.aspx
Don

[Seven]

Thanks, Don. Let's see if this works...

[Randy]

I am so glad people are still trying the recipe.  I have been away for awhile because of other projects that are still ongoing.

Of late I have been preparing the dough in my bread machine.  Interesting about the reduced kneading time.  Next time I make this recipe I will try the six minutes with a program change.

Randy

[Seven]

I'm addicted to this recipe, Randy! I've been using All Trumps with a 5 or 6 minute knead and am very happy with the final product. I like it so much that I'm tentative to try others!

[Randy]

Seven it has been our favorite for a long time too yet I find myself rotating between this pizza and a cracker crust with a Chicago style pizza thrown in now and then.

The cracker is now a close second to this recipe.

Randy