Author Topic: Shakey's sauce recipe??  (Read 136467 times)

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Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #140 on: February 09, 2012, 10:02:34 PM »
Is there more than one official bag-in-box Shakey's sauce being produced right now? And how often do they change the formula?

Back on November 21, 2005, elsegundo posted the ingredients declaration of Shakey's sauce here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2157.msg18924.html#msg18924

Tomato puree from vine ripened tomatoes
Dextrose
Salt
Spices
Garlic powder
Citric acid
Maltodextrin
Natural flavor
Sodium citrate

Then on January 5, 2011, Jet_deck posted another ingredients declaration of Shakey's sauce here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12688.msg122425.html#msg122425

Tomato puree (water, tomato paste)
dextrose
salt
dried onions
spices
garlic powder
citric acid
natural flavors.

Then in this thread on February 7, 2012, Jet_deck posted another ingredients declaration under this message ID:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,518.msg171015.html#msg171015

Tomato Puree (Water, Tomato Paste)
Spice Blend (Dextrose, Salt, Spice, Garlic Powder, Not more than 2% Silicon Dioxide, Soybean Oil, Spice Extractive)

Contains Less Than 2% of: Sugar, Dehydrated Onion, and Citric Acid.

These two recent ingredient declarations lead one to question if there are two versions of the sauce in use, which is of interest in cloning efforts. I know of one quick service restaurant chain that purchases their custom-manufactured signature ingredient from two sources for business continuity purposes. It would be interesting to know if anyone spots cartons of Shakey's sauce with the ingredients declaration of January 2011 on them.

Finally, some folks like lightmeter might be interested in cloning the version that was in use in his or her local Shakey's back in the day. Of the people who used to work in a Shakey's and posted lists of the tomato products they used, we have in the list Hunt's tomato puree, Hunt's tomato sauce, and Heinz tomato puree. These issues should be kept in mind when trying out the sauce recipes posted here.


Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #141 on: February 13, 2012, 09:18:13 PM »
I had some downtime to ponder it this weekend, so I’m posting the following “toppings” details. If you ever wondered why people have such a fond recollection of Shakey’s pizza, it’s here. The ingredients were fresh and top grade. Papa John’s would be seriously challenged to say better ingredients compared to this. Enjoy.

Note: This is provided purely as an archive for Shakey’s on the Rockville Pike (Rockville, MD), circa 1975, and isn’t claimed to be “the” recipe for all stores/franchises. These are the ingredients we used for the menu I presviously posted. The sauce and dough recipes on this forum continue to be in-progress and are clearly a store/franchise-specific thing. Same is true for topping menu items. Also, Shakey’s didn't precook sauce or ingredients - or any of the menu items.
We didn't have a food processor or chopper of any kind. We had a Hobart slicer, Hobart mixer/grinder and a knife.

Once again – not too bad for 30 years later, eh?…

Grotto, Dynadeuce, Joel – please weigh in. We seem to be on the same wavelength recipe-wise and prep-wise.

Sauce:
Sauce was wire whipped in the Hobart mixer to combine purée, water and spice mix, stored in 35 gallon+ Rubbermaid cans, two large batches per can. Sauce was spread on each pizza using a horsehair paintbrush (yes – you heard me), spread to the very edge each of each skin, and sometimes beyond. Sauce was not weighed. When pizzas were ready for the oven, each pizza was scraped with a painters putty knife around, and just under, the circumference edge before giving the peel a final wiggle to verify that the finished pizza was freely rolling on the corn meal base and ready for sliding off the prep peel into the oven. For a batch, we used three (3) cases of Heinz puree per batch, six #10 cans per case, plus 1 can water per case (adding water was a cost-wise thing that allowed us to add a small amount of water to each empty can to wash out any remaining puree). I’ll need to correct my previous post that stated water was added in equal amounts. That’s not correct.

Cheese:
Kraft mozzarella, provolone and cheddar. Parmesan was kept in shaker jars at each make-station of which a light dusting was added as a final topping just prior to baking. The same parmesan shakers were available for patrons to take to their tables for addition after pizzas were cooked.  Crushed, dried, red pepper flakes were also available to patrons to take to their tables. The three cheese mix was ground on premise in the Hobart grinder. The three cheese mix was supposed to be stored in covered bus tubs in the cooler, (everything in the cooler is required to be covered) but it was well known how much easier it was to prep pizzas with a slightly dry, crumbling mixture versus a freshly ground, wet mix, so the dehydrating effect of the cooler was allowed to dry the mix, otherwise the cooks complained - lots. When the Shakey’s cops showed up on occasion we knew to scramble to cover the bus tubs. So, at this store, on this date, there were no seven cheese pizzas at this store, only four. Cheese was weighed and spread on each pizza to within one-half inch of the edge. Proportions are a bit fuzzy. Mad _Ernie says 70% mozz, 15% prov, 15% cheddar which isn’t right. Cheddar was the least proportion. When I see posters with pictures of pizzas with orange cheddar spread on top, or burned cheddar pizzas, I know they’re off. Cheddar was just a small component. I’d estimate mozz/prov/ched something on the order of 80:15:1. Cheddar was a piece of the flavor/color profile, but not much.

Olives:
#10 cans, whole black olives, cans opened on bench opener, drained and sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Free toss on each pizza.

Green Peppers:
Fresh produce delivered daily, provided whole, stem core popped with a smack of the palm, or a jab of a knuckle, deseeded by pulling the stem core out with as much of the seeds attached as possible, a quick shake to get any additional loose seeds out, then sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Free toss on each pizza.

Onions:
Fresh produce delivered daily, whole white onions, soaked in a sink of water, then hand prepped by slicing caps off, then one slice down from top to bottom to release skin, peel skin and discard, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Free toss on each pizza. I can't remember if we diced the onions or used sliced onions on the pizzas. I do remember diced onions on the steak sandwiches though so we likely hand chopped enough for the sandwich make table. Perhaps we ran onions through the slicer twice? Anyone recall?

Pepperoni:
Hormel sticks provided in a cardboard case, est 24 per case, 3 feet long, each wrapped in deli wax paper casings, paper was sliced long-wise with box cutter razor and then peeled off, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler, slices were placed edge to edge on each pizza.

Lean Beef:
Fresh ground Hamburger delivered daily, mixed with ground black pepper, allowed to dry uncovered using the dehumidifier effect of the walk in cooler, hand mixed after drying, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Weighed for each pizza size, spread evenly. There may have also been a Shakey’s bag added here too. I don’t think so, I just don’t recall. I’m also not perfectly sure that we didn’t grind our own hamburger, but I don’t think so.

Italian Sausage:
Fresh never frozen thick sliced pork chops, delivered daily, low grade, high fat, ground on premises in Hobart grinder, mixed with bagged Shakey’s seasoning mix, hand mixed, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Much wetter than the beef mixture, the Italian sausage was weighed for each pizza and then small bits were pinched from the weighed mass and placed evenly on the pizza. Weighed for each pizza size, spread evenly.

Salami:
Hard Genoa, delivered in deli wax paper casings, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Slices placed evenly, edges close or touching.

Canadian Bacon: 
Hormel brand, delivered in plastic sleeves, high quality, est 4 inches diameter by 3 feet long, appearance of a nice canned ham, high fat, high water content, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Slices placed evenly, edges close or touching.

Eastern Polish Sausage:
Hmmmm, I forgot we had that, rarely sold other than the Captains Delight menu item, delivered as links, sliced on premises in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. I don't recall how it was measured for each pizza.

Anchovies:
The menu says they're sourced from Lisban. I believe it. Provided in steel cans, kept under lock and key until opened, cans opened with bench opener or old style "twist key" (really can't remember), very expensive, imported. One can was stored in one make station and returned to cooler each night.

White Mushrooms:
I can't say enough about the produce we got, mushrooms were beautiful fresh white mushrooms, est 2-4 inches avg, some larger, soaked in the prep sink full of water to remove dirt, sliced caps and stems on premise in Hobart slicer. (...and all this from someone who doesn't like mushrooms), stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler, free toss on each pizza.

If the above are all considered toppings then corn meal must be included as the bottomings: each pizza was prepared on a healthy dusting of very fine yellow cornmeal. Provided in 25# bags, stored in rolling plastic food bins.

Enjoy - Lightmeter






Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #142 on: February 14, 2012, 01:43:31 AM »

4. They add three pounds of spices to each batch of sauce, but don't give the size of the batch. If they puree fresh onions and add sugar or dextrose to the sauce, that would account for most of three pounds.



How certain are you this is the amount used? Where did you get this info?

If true, the rough amount of spices to tomato puree can be determined using the information provided by lightmeter. For the calculation I assume roughly 3T per oz of spices:

3 lbs spices x 16 oz/lb x 3T/oz = 144T spices.
3 cases puree x 6 cans/case = 18 cans puree + ~3 cans water = 21 cans x 10lb/can = 210 pounds of tomato sauce

Therefore 144T spices/ 210 pounds of tomato sauce = 0.685 T/lb of sauce. Or roughly 0.5-1 T per 16oz of tomato sauce.

Does that sound about right for this sauce? Seems a bit on the light side to me, but then again I don't have a good recollection of Shakey's sauce. This also assumes the "batch size" hasn't changed over time.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 01:46:38 AM by DNA Dan »

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #143 on: February 14, 2012, 09:48:55 AM »
Dan
I this is what I have from some of my OLD notes;

Quote
They used puree as their sauce with loads of spices in it....oregano onion & garlic powder parsley salt & pepper as well as a hint basil. An institutional size can of puree to 1/2 cup spice mixture.

It appears to have come from another chat or message board, but couldn't even begin to guess from where. Other stuff within those notes indicate that is may have been just prior to or in the beginning of Jacmar ownership.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #144 on: February 14, 2012, 10:27:33 AM »
Here is an interesting food archeology question: What brands/types of canned tomato puree were available to food service operators in Central California in 1954?

Zing,
 
I don't know who had tomato puree in '54 but the big brands that processed tomatoes here were; Hunt's, Heinz, DelMonte/Contadina, Escalon, Stanislaus and Campbell's.  Any food service pamphlets I might have would be from the 60-70's. There may have been others in the more southern part of the central valley. In the upper part there is Sacramento Tomato. They may be worth looking into, but I think that current operations is solely manufacture of tomato juice. I also have no idea who Sysco has ever contracted with for any of their private label stuff.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #145 on: February 14, 2012, 08:44:08 PM »
DNA Dan, My last post was meant to specify #10 cans, not ten pounds per can. Sorry. In fact, #10 cans (and Heinz puree cans) are 6 lb, 9 oz per can, not ten pounds. See my previous picture post of Heinz cans. i.e.  6 lb, 9 oz = 105 oz per #10 can (by weight)
I'm lovin’ the math. Here's mine for compare.

The following “oz” measures are by weight.
•   6 cans puree*105 oz per can = 630 oz puree
•   x 3 cases puree per batch = 1890 oz puree per batch
•   and
•   3 cans water = 300 oz water per batch (est 100 oz water per can)
•   = 2190 oz Shakey’s Sauce per batch
•   = 137 lb Shakey’s Sauce per batch

The following “oz” measures are by volume.
•   16 cups (volume) = 1 gallon (volume)
•   one #10 can = 13 cups (volume) – I measured it
•   18 cans of puree + 3 cans water = 21 cans per batch
•   21 #10 cans * 13 cups per can = 273 cups (volume)
•   = 17 gallons Shakey’s Sauce per batch

This makes perfect sense to me. We filled large Rubbermaid plastic cans with 2 batches per day and stored them in the cooler, which means the Rubbermaid cans had to hold the two batches, or 34 gallons. Many typical trash can sizes are in the 35 gallon range.
 ;D

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #146 on: February 15, 2012, 04:18:29 PM »
How certain are you this is the amount used? Where did you get this info?



I got the information from the website of Boulevard Pizza in Sparks, Nevada, just outside of Reno:
http://boulevard-pizza.com/thincrust.html

I decided to look for the website after user go4x4it posted at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,518.msg146573.html#msg146573

that Boulevard Pizza is one of the many stores that dropped the Shakey's franchise and went independent but made essentially the same pizza. Some travelers may be interested in former Shakey's restaurants that still serve similar pizza, Mojo potatoes, etc.

Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #147 on: February 15, 2012, 04:19:08 PM »
Excellent~!

I think the volume measurement makes more sense for proportioning since the solids content can have a significant effect on the weight.

So is the 3lbs of spices a dry measurement? Or is that a 3lb liquid slug? It seems like there is confusion here with new stores just diluting down a concentrated stock.

3lbs is ~48oz, so 48oz/17gallons = 2.82 oz of spice for every gallon of sauce.

That sounds like a better ratio to me.

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #148 on: February 15, 2012, 09:41:38 PM »
Zing,
 
I don't know who had tomato puree in '54 but the big brands that processed tomatoes here were; Hunt's, Heinz, DelMonte/Contadina, Escalon, Stanislaus and Campbell's.  Any food service pamphlets I might have would be from the 60-70's. There may have been others in the more southern part of the central valley. In the upper part there is Sacramento Tomato. They may be worth looking into, but I think that current operations is solely manufacture of tomato juice. I also have no idea who Sysco has ever contracted with for any of their private label stuff.

Shakey's first store was opened in Sacramento in 1954. Just like the former employees who posted here that they made the sauce from canned tomato products, the original Shakey's must have also made sauce from #10 cans of tomato product. Unfortunately, the folks who made that sauce are probably no longer with us. But knowing who was canning tomatoes helps narrow down the foodservice purees to try out.

Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #149 on: February 17, 2012, 01:55:54 PM »

"Here is a vid from Mexico (NO sound) you can see how thin the dough is and how craggy the edges are. It's a DRY dough. "

Lydia, this is an interesting observation that I have been ruminating on for a few days now. The dough does look dry, however it's very extensible. Look at how the folds do not "crack" from the dryness, they just curve up. It's almost as though these cracker styles have a low hydration but are spiked with a dough conditioner or something to improve the slackness of the dough. I will have to explore this further. Thanks for the observation and the link. I am shocked at how the dough performs on the sheeter given it's apparent dryness. If I make a dry dough, it does not perform like that on my sheeter, regardless of how thin I make it. Interesting.


Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2012, 09:20:09 PM »
This thread says sauce, but in reviewing Shakey's crust, I highly recommend the following discussion threads:


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10557.0.html



http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10707.0.html


Some highlights from forum alum elsegundo (notice the mention of the die cut method as seen in the video Lydia provided, as well as the <2% ingredients that include dough conditioners and soybean oil):

Part one: ingredients of premix flour, shortening, sugar, salt, yeast
 
1.   Weigh 9 pounds water at 95 degrees and add to mixer bowl.
2.   Open bag of Shakey’s Thin Crust 25# bag and pour into bowl.
3.   Attach dough hook to mixer, raise bowl.
4.   Mix on speed #1 for 7 minutes.
5.   Remove dough from bowl and place in 2 tubs and cover.
6.   Punch dough down when doubled in size.
7.   Place covered tubs immediately in cooler.

Premix:
Enriched flour
Partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil
Sugar
Salt
Yeast
Less than 2 percent:
Ammonium sulfate – dough conditioner, yeast food – nitrogen source
Calcium sulfate – dough conditioner, yeast food – raises pH
Dextrose – yeast food
Soybean oil – emulsifier, softener, relaxer

Part two:

mix 25 pounds of premix with 9 pounds water at 95 degrees for 7 minutes

Finally, Secret part.
Shakey's uses a die cut method, which means they take a prepared dough sheet and cut out circles.  What they do with the scraps is important.  They save them for the next day.

Let them eat pizza.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #151 on: February 18, 2012, 11:19:35 AM »
Dan, this one is for you and those who have been blessed with dough sheeters.

I found general instructions for sheeting the "old dough" into the new dough from one of the premix companies.
I revisited the  "The Great American" pizza blend that Elsegundo listed as one of the premix makers for the "California 3" many moons ago. Note that the formula has changed since his posting. Their current formula includes cornmeal. I would venture to say that this is most likely the current Shakey's mix. It's been a good handful of years since I've come across this premix, and I never tried it when it was on the shelves, but I will make sure I do grab some if it shows up again.

What I really liked about this find, was that it confirms that scrap dough is expected as part of the formula/procedure for the thin crust.

http://pizzablends.com/pdf/dry-mix.pdf
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #152 on: February 18, 2012, 11:31:50 AM »
My link isn't working again. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #153 on: February 18, 2012, 12:17:17 PM »
My link isn't working again. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?

Your pdf link worked for me, Lydia.

Thanks,

-ME
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #154 on: February 18, 2012, 02:10:11 PM »
Does not work for me.

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Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #155 on: February 18, 2012, 09:45:49 PM »
What I really liked about this find, was that it confirms that scrap dough is expected as part of the formula/procedure for the thin crust.
http://pizzablends.com/pdf/dry-mix.pdf


Lydia,

I can't argue with the conclusion that scraps are an expected part of the procedure - but only for cost saving reasons. I wouldn't agree that they are a required ingredient producing a specific Shakey’s characteristic. I've rolled skins with scraps, without scraps, old scraps and fresh scraps.

At the Rockville store, trainees were always taught to include scraps from the previous loaf cuttings, 10% per loaf but no more. The logic was that there was 10% scrap left from each loaf, but that wasn't really the case. For the entire shift, cuttings tended to be just over 10% and so the scrap pile over the course of the shift accumulated, and some dried out, particularly at the periphery of the pile. At the end of the shift there was usually a bus tub of scrap left. We trashed it at the end of the shift.

If a reused piece of scrap was too dry, the next loaf ran the risk of chunks of dried dough being dragged through the rollers like hard play doh. If the roller caught a chunk, the dough would rip, or best case there would be bits of dried dough crushed into in an otherwise smooth skin - not a desired characteristic. Considering the dehydrating effect of the cooler, we never reused the previous day's scraps in the next day's first loaves. The best skins were always from the first rolled loaf of the day when zero scraps were used. In all, we saved by reuse, but only to a point.

Lightmeter

Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #156 on: February 18, 2012, 10:25:23 PM »
Here's a puzzle... When we mixed Shakey’s dough using bulk flour, water, cake yeast and solid vegetable shortening I’ve previously guessed that our batches were something on the order of 35 pounds. I don't recall the weights of flour or water that went into it, but we cut the loaf into 5 pieces and placed them into 5 bus tubs, or 7 pounds per bus tub – I think. Seeing that Shakey’s went to a 25# premix bag plus 9 pounds of water results in 34 pounds per batch - and means I may be close in my recollections.

I won't swear to any of this, but it kinda makes sense, because I could grab one of those 1/5 pieces in one hand and slam it into a bus tub. However, reading a previous post by El Segundo, using the 25 pound premix bag plus 9 pounds of water, the resultant batch was cut into two pieces, and then placed into two bus tubs. That makes 17 pounds in each bus tub, equivalent weight to three one-gallon milk bottles, and I doubt I could have one-handed one of those into a bus tub.

There’s a huge difference in rising 17 pounds of dough in one bus tub versus 7 pounds in one bus tub.
I’m trying to back into the batch weights we used and this is stumping me. Anyone have any additional recollections that would resolve this difference?

Thanks - Lightmeter <<<< Since posting this, I've reconsider my 35 lb batch weight. It was likely much more than 35 lbs and so 17 lb per bus tub may indeed be correct. Read on>>>>>>
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 06:21:42 PM by lightmeter »

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #157 on: February 19, 2012, 07:30:00 PM »
Does not work for me.

--Jet

It's not working for me, now, too.  I wonder what happened?

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #158 on: February 19, 2012, 08:11:26 PM »
They are on to us ::)

It's not working for me, now, too.  I wonder what happened?

-ME

Offline norma427

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #159 on: February 19, 2012, 08:39:32 PM »
I copied and pasted Lydia’s link into my browser and it worked for me.  I did print out the page.  If I am allowed, and anyone wants me to, I can scan the sheet and post it here as a picture.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 08:41:26 PM by norma427 »
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