Author Topic: Shakey's sauce recipe??  (Read 136845 times)

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Offline lilbuddypizza

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2009, 09:01:30 PM »
To me Shakey's sauce always tasted like Aurelio's with green bell pepper. :D


Offline Pizza Molhado

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2009, 07:27:04 PM »
This was an interesting read, I too would like to know how to make the sauce with precise measurements. I do not remember what the sauce tasted like back then as I was too young so I cant really help out in trying to recreate it.

While I was reading the history of Shakeys mentioned earlier I couldnt help but notice that it was almost word for word exactly like my favorite pizza parlor here in Long Beach, its called "Me n Ed's"

It could have been a clone of Shakeys or a former store that turned, but there is dixie/blue grass music every friday and saturday night. The tables are wooden and aligned from one end to the other so you have multiple party's sitting close to each other. There's plenty of "Ye olde..." signs posted throughout the restaurant, there is also an area sectioned off with glass where you can see them making the pizza right on the spot. Oh yeah and alcohol is served there. :)

Its a cracker crust style pizza with a sauce that has a more paste-like consistency then liquid. The cheese from what ive been told is Mozzarella and Monterey Jack. I got hooked to this place as a child because every tuesday night kids eat free!

Offline billyboybleu

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2009, 11:12:01 PM »
Okay, here’s my run at Shakey’s from the 70’s.  I didn’t work there, but I’ve never forgotten what the greatest pizza in the world tasted like and I’ve been chasing it ever since.  I started with the Chef Boyardee kits when I was a kid (I’m 41 now) and been working toward recreating Shakey’s ever since.  This recipe is the product of recommended experimentation, question-asking, Internet and other research, and just plain guessing over the course of about 30 years or so.

A little disclaimer here:  I’m not a pro and nowhere near as advanced as a lot of you here.  I see these percentages and stuff you talk about and it’s all over my head.  You’ll probably see some things in my method that makes you shake your head.  If so, know that I welcome all pointers to a better pizza.  That said, here’s my amateur attempt at Shakey’s…

Here’s my dough recipe:

10 ounces of warm water (run the tap ‘til it feels warm – fill the measuring cup)
¾ teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon of sugar
3 tablespoons olive oil
4 cups of flour (I use bread flour – whatever I can get my hands on)
2 teaspoon active dry yeast

This is for a regular oven and makes two pounds or two 16” pizzas.  I use a bread machine to mix the dough and I load it in the above order.  I put the sugar and salt in opposite corners of the bread can and I make a little impression in the flour mound to pour the yeast.  I set the machine to the dough setting and let it run its course.  After that, I remove the dough, separate it into two equal portions, and put each ball in its own mixing bowl.  I pre-coat the bowls with a light spray of Pam olive oil, then cover each one with plastic cling wrap, and let them set on the counter at room temperature for at least 24 hours, but not more than 36 hours.  In fact, if I don’t use it within a few hours after the 24 hour mark, I’ll go ahead and store it in the refrigerator.

When I’m ready to cook, I’ll pre-heat my oven to about 550 degrees (the knob is only marked at 500 and I set it between that and broil).  I sprinkle some flour out on a clean counter, lay out a ball, and roll it out as thin as I want, adding enough flour to keep the dough from sticking to the roller or counter.  I usually have plenty hanging over the pan to use for other stuff, like bread twists or whatever.  I grease my cutter pan with a little bit of Pam and sprinkle some corn meal on it, distributing the meal buy bumping the edge of the pan with my hand.  I’ll usually toss the pan in the oven then while I get the other ball rolled out.

After about 4-5 minutes, I take the pan out and lay the first sheet (skin?) on it, press it in with my hands, lightly dock it with a fork, and trim excess with my roller.  For the docking, I give the pan a descent spin and poke around for about three full turns.  I then set it aside for 20-30 minutes and get the other one ready.  I put each one back in the oven after this time for just a couple of minutes, but I do not allow the crust to change colors or bubble up.  It should be pulled out just as it tries to bubble or a split second before.  There’s no science to it, just a feeling.

When the first pan is ready, I brush on the sauce with a big BBQ brush nearly to the edge, sprinkle Kraft mozzarella by hand, making sure I can still see scattered red, and lay on my toppings.

Here’s the sauce and it must be made at least a week in advance, tightly covered, and stored in the refrigerator – a couple of weeks ahead is even better:

28-ounce can of pureed tomatoes
1 table spoon of bell pepper (the green one)
1 teaspoon of yellow onion
1 big clove of garlic
1 teaspoon thyme
½ teaspoon oregano
½ teaspoon of salt

This is just enough to make a thin film on the skins.  You can double the amount for a little more sauce and still have some left over to use as a starter for a new batch.  This is handy to have if you’re making pizzas, but didn’t get your sauce made far enough in advance.  Just make the above recipe fresh (or as far in advance as the time you have allows) then mix it with the starter and store as above.  Make sure you liquefy the tomatoes in a blender before mixing them with the other stuff.  Also, the bell pepper, onion, and garlic must be as finely chopped as you can get it.  I’ve got this little hand-chopper thing and I try to chop it all fine enough to make a bread spread.  The thyme and oregano are store shelf spices, not fresh, and I pour them out on a cutting board and mash them with the back of a spoon before adding it to the sauce.  I know they’re ready to go in when I can smell them pretty strong just standing over the board.  I cook the whole thing for about 30 minutes over heat low enough that the sauce never boils.  After that, cool it, store it in Tupperware with a good lid, and stick it in the fridge.  You’ll see it again in a week or two.

After you build your pizza (that oven’s been at 550 degrees now for 30 to 45 minutes), toss one in on the middle rack for about 10 minutes or so.  About halfway through, I’ll crack the oven and turn it some.  I watch it close, though, because the cooking cycle goes like this:  Not Ready > Not Ready > Not Ready > Almost Perfect > Perfect > Completely Ruined.  I let it cool for a few minutes, then slide the whole thing off on the re-cleaned counter, cut it, and go to work – all the while getting the other one ready and cooked, too.  It'll be pretty crisp with some bubbles in it and a strong flavor.  The sauce is pretty good, too, and sets the whole thing off.  This is a home-baked pizza, so I can lay it on the counter if I want to.  If I had two more cool pans, I would probably slide them off on those.

This is as close as I can get considering I’m a non-trained, non-precision amateur.  Sorry about the long post.


Hoyt

Thanks for giving me something to start with. I'll pay it forward after a couple months of trial and error.

Billy

Offline supreez

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2009, 02:12:46 PM »
OH My God!



But while visiting my parents place in Belvidere, IL (near the Wisconsin border).


did this just happen in the last couple of weeks, like july of 2009?? i was searching for shakey's mojo potatoes recipe and went to shakey's site...couldn't believe they're still around! used to have some in this area (northern indiana)  but not for a long time now. according to shakey's store locator, the closest one to me is in auburn ALABAMA, a mere 662 miles away  :(  then i find this site and your post...i want to believe, yet do i really dare, that i could have shakey's pizza in a few hours if i so wished?

this is awesome news. i loved shakey's as a kid! shakey's and burger chef lol. those potatoes were the bomb, thought i might try making some tonight. but that pizza wow. not much compares to that! cool post!

Offline xoutbob

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Re: Shakey's crust...
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2010, 01:20:12 AM »
No salt no yeast just flour & water. I did forgetto add they used cornmeal on the bottom & sometimes during a cornmeal fight you might have gotten a pizza with meal on top too!


I worked at Shakey's Pizza in Memphis in 1974, I was the Skin Man for three stores-new concept back then! What I can remember was we would put a large bag of flour in the HOBART MIXER, and there was a smaller package of a flour mixture with something else in it...Water-and Budwieser Brewing Yeast 1 large like 8 to 10 inches long and 3 to 4 inches thick... think the smaller package of flour mixture might have been a flour - salt - sugar - kinda like bisquick? We would mix in Hobart machine for about 30 min. let relax and put into grey tubs about 2 and a half feet long maybe 18 inches wide and about 5 inches high...it was about 6 to 8 tubs at a time. This would go into walk-in beer cooler till next day. When I would get there I would make up new dough and let sit in H-machine. I would take one tub at a time to the long wooden prep table-looked like a long shuffleboard table!-the electric roller with the size thing on it was cool - set it on a thick setting and run the dough back and forth over and over and slowly turn the setting smaller and smaller and that last click was majic-10 to 15 ft of thin-dough-then would lay a pizza pan family size or large or medium or small and used a knife to cut around the crust to make the SKINS-As I said - did this for 3 stores ... I was 17 years old then ... been trying to get it right for years just can't seem to get it just right...

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2010, 11:50:21 AM »
I'm using the handle "Zing" because I am trying to discover what the zing is in Shakey's sauce. While there has been a great variation in the sauces I have had since 1974, all (except from some of those rogue Shakey's franchisees) have had a zing to them - sometimes described as spicy, tangy, hot, zesty, etc.

I am embarking on a project with a friend (a California native) to produce a clone with zing to it. My friend made the observation that there is a black spice in Shakey' sauce. Many reports from old timers who mixed the sauce before it came pre-mixed from a distributor indicate they added a powdered spice mix. If there is a red/chili pepper component, it would rule out the use of liquid pepper sauces. One possibility may be coarse ground pepper. In the thread on the Round Table formula, Lydia discussed the use of ground Mexican oregano. I have done a trial run of pizza sauces spiked with an expired, oxidized lot of McCormick's Hot Shot(R) black and red pepper blend.

I am now leaning toward the use of Pastorelli's, a Chicago-made supermarket pizza sauce which is a pasty rather than liquid-ey product. Availability has increased since Target has started selling Pastorelli's in their stores, in addition to various supermarket chains. To this, I want to add some zing. Has anyone heard/read anything about black pepper and/or powdered red pepper being one component of Shakey's zing?
 

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2010, 09:47:20 PM »
Never had this pizza,being a NY native,but it sounds pretty good! I would be willing to try making a similar pizza soon,even though I may not have basis of knowing for sure if it tastes the same or not.
 :)


-Bill

Offline cshultz

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2010, 02:23:04 PM »
I love Abbys pizza!!!  I would love to find out the secret to the sauce and dough. I didnt realize it was like shakeys.. thanks for that info.

Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2011, 12:22:21 PM »
Contributors Joel and Dynadeuce are the most accurate recollections I can find on this thread. Here’s my similar contribution. Consider it a fractured brain dump but not too bad for 30 years later.

I was an assistant manager at the Shakey’s on Rockville Pike, MD while in high school, circa 1975-1978. In the years I worked there, I trained in all positions including cook, till, prep, skins, fryer, bar and yes even scullery - and then assistant manager. The store was reported to be the second largest volume Shakey’s at the time, which I believe. It was a seriously happenin’ place most nights and all weekend. Country music on Thursdays, Dixieland Jazz on Friday nights and Country/Bluegrass on Saturday nights (or maybe the other way around). Weekend days were packed with birthdays, soccer teams and later included football fans when we finally installed a projection TV.

First of all, the dough was definitely made with shortening. The shortening was stored in the dry goods storage room, in a bag, in a box, room-temperature. It wasn’t refrigerated, so it clearly wasn’t lard. It was a Crisco-type shortening, a.k.a. 100% pure vegetable shortening. That’s right, hydrogenated vegetable oils (trans fats).

I recall weighing something like 16 oz per batch, requiring me to reach into the bag and scoop out pure, white, slimy goop with my hand.  I clearly recall it was a large glob of the stuff. I have big hands and by the time it was weighed out on a waxed paper sheet, it filled my paw like I was holding a large softball. This is important because this should tell me, as a Crisco crust, that once cooked there would be a certain flakiness to the crust and a certain mouth-feel of hot pizza versus cold, and there should have been less grease in the delivery boxes than other pizza shops that used oil based recipes. However, I don’t remember if any of this was the case, only that we did use shortening.

The dough recipe was flour, water, shortening, yeast and a pack of Shakey’s dough mix, additives that I have no idea what they were, but it was likely salt, sugar and perhaps some leavening or gluten extenders and perhaps some preservatives. The bag was packaged and labeled by Shakey’s. The yeast was fresh compressed cake yeast made by Anheuser-Busch provided by our local beer distributor. It was provided in one-pound bricks and we used one brick per batch. The process was to pour water into the Hobart bowl. Then the blob of shortening was dropped in. Then measured bus tubs of flour were dumped in. On top of it all we poured the contents on one bag of Shakey’s dough mix and a crumbled brick of yeast. Then, with the dough hook installed, turn on the mixer and time it to something like 10 minutes.  Looking back, we should have measured the temperature of the water but I just don’t ever recall a bad batch unless we forgot an ingredient when assembling. The water was measured by volume using 5-gallon pickle buckets.

Sorry I can’t recall the flour weights but I do recall the finished batch was heavy and it was awkward to lift the finished dough out of the Hobart bowl onto the stainless prep table. I had to sort of roll it up the side of the Hobart bowl into my lap and then shove it onto the prep table, so I’m guessing it weighed 35 pounds finished. From there I sliced it into five even pieces and placed them into five covered bus tubs for a first rise (and sometimes a second rise if we were busy). Once the dough raised enough to lift the covers off the tubs, we punched the dough down and then the tubs were stacked in the cooler on shelves until the next day when they were used for rolling into “skins”.

To make skins, cold bus tubs of dough were removed from the cooler and carried to the rolling area. One loaf was mixed with no more than 10% scraps from the previous loaf. At the end of the day we tossed any remaining scraps, usually a bus tub full. They were never saved for the next day. Then through the sheeter it went, first one way and then, reducing the roller gap by a click, the dough went back the other way. The first couple passes required folding and rotating. Sheeting was repeated until the entire loaf was reduced to a thickness of perhaps no more than a sixteenth of an inch and perhaps 20 feet long, or more if you ran a double loaf. The sheeted loaf was rolled onto a large rolling pin which was then moved to the cutting table for cutting. The long sheet of pinned dough was then pulled out, enough to cover the full length of a 10 foot butcher-block cutting table. Four stainless ring templates, a docker and a 2-inch putty knife were used to dock and cut the skins. When prepping for a busy weekend night, it was nothing to stack 500 Family size skins, 350 Doubles and 150 Singles. We never cut birthday size skins ahead of time (the 4th template), instead we cut down a single size skin when the birthday order came in. Ten skins were penny-stacked, each separated with a piece of wax paper and then all ten sandwiched between two pizza pans. This went into the cooler for use the next day. An interesting side note that I was taught is that docking the dough is not intended to poke a zillion holes in the dough, but instead to pinch together the dozens of dough laminations that are formed when sheeting. No matter the purpose, docking definitely reduces dough bubbles when baking.

For the sauce, make no mistake, the tomatoes we used were Heinz Tomato Puree, 1.06 Specific Gravity, Net Wt. 6 LB. 9 OZ. (MFD in USA by H. J. Heinz Co.) I know this because I still have an empty can I use for nuts & bolts in the garage. Don’t over think this. The sauce recipe was puree, water and an herb mix pre-packaged and labeled by Shakey’s. The bag was mostly filled with green herbs. I’d think any Italian mix of basil, oregano, dried garlic, salt and sugar would be a good place to reverse engineer from, but again, this was mostly dried green herbs, water and puree.

Equal parts of water and puree were placed in the Hobart bowl and to this was added the Shakey’s herb mix. I think each Hobart batch included three (3) cases of puree plus equal water and one herb bag per case of sauce (or one bag per batch?). Each case was six cans. The mixture was stirred with a Hobart wire whip for 15 minutes or so to distribute the spices and herbs. It was typical to mix two full batches of sauce per day resulting in the filling of a 30 gallon plastic trash can nearly to the top which was then stored in the cooler. Two trash cans were used in rotation. Doing a bit of math, each batch would have resulted in about 13 gallons or so of sauce (estimate 100 pounds +/-), enough weight that it took two people to lift each batch into the can. I made the mistake of trying to lift a batch by myself one evening only to instead dump most of the batch on the floor. It was too heavy and awkward for one person to lift and pour.

There was never any wine added to the sauce as suggested by a previous contributor. They may instead be thinking of Shakeys Secret Sauce which was used on some of the sandwiches. It was made with 1 part mayonnaise and ½ part red wine vinegar plus ½ part salad oil. There was no wine on the premises, ever. We didn’t sell wine.

The cheese was mostly part-skim low moisture mozzarella, a lesser amount of provolone and only a small amount of cheddar. Using the Hobart, it was all ground on-site into bus tubs, covered and stored in the cooler. The cheese was all high quality and very expensive. We didn’t use any soy cheese products. There was no parmesan cheese added to the base mix but it was offered to patrons in shaker jars when they picked up their order.

The 1975 menu stated “…FROM THE GIANT 750 deg OVENS IN THE WINDOWS…” . I don’t recall the ovens being set quite that hot, but maybe so. Pies took 5-7 minutes depending on how often the oven doors were opened and yes, I have one of those menus. A family size cheese pizza (serves 4) was $3.10. The family size Shakey’s Special pizza was $4.95. I think when I was hired, I started at $ 2.85/hour.

As I read through this site it’s clear that one of the reasons for Shakey’s near-distinction was the lack of corporate quality assurance. There are just too many variations in the contributions to think all owners and managers adhered to the same recipes. That being said, I do recall a couple early spot-inspections by Shakey’s corporate staff and, considering the volume of business we did, I would think our store was closely watched to be in compliance with corporate recipes. The owner tried once to change the recipe with a lower cost cheese, but we got busted by the Shakey’s cops and quickly reversed back.

Do the math: pizzas, sandwiches, salads and bar receipts and we routinely generated $10k-12k on a weekend night in revenue. Not too shabby for the 70’s. Later, in a last ditch effort to retain market, the store was transformed into a Shakey’s brass-bar theme but finally it was bought by Hooter’s, who have since relocated across Rockville Pike to a newer building. Today, the original red brick building sits vacant at 1471 Rockville Pike covered with painted, peeling white paneling awaiting the next Shakey’s visionary. Man, we had fun.     :chef: >:D


Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2011, 09:23:51 PM »
Lightmeter:

Thank you for your added contribution to the continuing saga of Shakey's cloning.  Every contributor has helped in some manner, and yours is probably one of the better detailed accounts of what most Shakey's were like.  I also suspect that franchisees might have veered from the pure, 'authentic' Shakey's pizza in some cases, such as with certain ingredients or procedures.  I have seen it with enough other franchised restaurants that it would only seem logical.

The sauce herb mixture you mentioned I think is the key not only Shakey's but most other pizza restaurant sauces.  Even one of my favorite local pizza places has a secret herb mixture they use to make their sauce.  The herbs are the key; not just the right ones but in the right proportions. 

I think it should be pretty obvious by now, and you have added further evidence, that sheeting the dough is the key to Shakey's pizza crust and others like it.  If someone really wants to recreate an American, cracker-crust style of pizza, there is no substitute for an industrial sheeter.  This makes me wonder, did the very first Shakey's pub use a sheeter for their pizzas in the mid-50's?  Was such a device even available yet, perhaps for another purpose?
Let them eat pizza.


Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #90 on: January 20, 2011, 08:29:02 PM »
Lightmeter,

I'd like to add my thanks for your contributions to the Shakey's cloning project. I have fond memories of enjoying the pizza on Rockville Pike. As one who watched the chain wither away in the Washington, DC metro area to Newark, Delaware corridor, I can't just drive a few more miles to another location. So, I've started trying to clone the pizza two months ago. What all of these posts show is how recipes and procedures changed over the years. But, no restaurant chain stood still over the same time period. You may be interested in the recent post, which gives the current ingredient label lists of many of the factory-prepared foods now used by Shakey's entitled 'Shakey's 2011' in the Cracker Style forum.

The following notes are not a recipe, but part of a work in progress. From current shortening information, I found partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil shortening is available under the Wegmans and Guaranteed Value (Royal Ahold/Stop & Shop/Giant) house brands. For cheese, the closest I have come is Sun of Italy shredded Pizza Cheese (mozzarella/provolone) and Nature's Promise (Royal Ahold/Stop & Shop/Giant) shredded Sharp *White* Cheddar Cheese. For sauce, Muir Glen/General Foods pizza sauce (nationally available) is now my starting point. All of its ingredients, spices, and herbs are listed on the label. I am trying various peppers, such as crushed red pepper and ground cayenne (red) pepper to determine what give the sauce its Zing. I'm also experimenting with Spice Islands ground Mexican oregano. That great flavor in the crust seems to be coming from barley malt. In California, one Shakey's was recently seen using Hormel food service thinly sliced pepperoni; don't know if its the regular version or hot and spicy version. I'm also trying to find foodservice versions of all of these ingredients; so far I have only used consumer versions.

With so many foodservice distributors listing their products on the Internet, I found that Heinz Tomato Puree (1.06 S.G.) is still on the market; it is item number 57270!
 :D

ADDENDUM: Thanks to those online nuitrition sites, I found many other house brands of shortening made with partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil. They are: Safeway, Hannaford, Lowes, Meijer, Springfield, Stater Bros, Hy-Vee, Meijer, Raley's, Wal-Mart's All Vegetable shortening 48 oz, Food Lion.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 06:09:57 PM by Zing »

Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2011, 09:50:00 PM »
Lightmeter, I must too thank you for the in-depth recollection of how this style was made. If I am reading correctly what you posted regarding the dough prep, it went something like this.

Day 1
1) Make up dough
2) Let rise
3) Place in cooler overnight

Day 2
4) Make dough skins
5) Place in cooler overnight

Day 3
6) Pull out a stack of skins, dress and cook

So basically the dough making was a three day process. If you don't mind I have a few questions regarding this.

- How long was the dough allowed to rise after making? Was this done at room temperature?
- After the skins were made, they were then fermented a SECOND time overnight?
- Were the skins ALWAYS kept refrigerated prior to dressing? Or was the whole stack taken out and allowed to warm up?

Again, thanks for the tidbits. Your insights to this pizza style are invaluable.

Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2011, 10:26:12 PM »
No doubt, the sheeter is a critical component of this style crust. I personally think of the "American" style not so much a style, but derived more from a "process" of producing pizzas at a large scale; something no ma-pa pizzeria could do in the day. For quick service, Sherwood found a way to make a lot of pizzas each day using a sheeter. As such, the "American" style came as a result of the “process”. I'd think Round Table pizza was a close follower.

Crisco is well-known as an important ingredient of any pie crust seeking flakiness. Although I can't say I ever recall a Shakey's crust peeling apart like a flakey pie crust does, I do envision that a returning WWII serviceman making pizza in his home was using some variation of the family "dough" recipe; perhaps a derivation of the family pie recipe or perhaps instead the result of experimenting with a sheeter and, with expert pie makers nearby, the recipe was born. Crisco and a sheeter are equal contributors.

Asking whether Sherwood's first restaurant employed a sheeter is a great question.

Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2011, 10:52:27 PM »
DNA Dan,

Your day 1-2-3 summary is close, but more-so we kept to a 2-day cycle. i.e. Day 1 is mix, rise, cover and cool. Day 2 morning-afternoon was sheeting. Day 2 afternoon, evening and Day 3 was assembly and baking.

- The dough was allowed to rise 6 hours +/- after making. It was always at room temperature. We punched it down once, maybe twice. i.e. prep person mixed the batch, monitored rising, punched it down and put it in the cooler before their 8-hour shift completed. No critical timing here, summer and winter rising rates were obviously different. All that mattered was dough made it to cooler before "prep" punched out for their shift.
- After the skins were rolled and penny-stacked and placed in the cooler, cooks drew on them at-will, as-needed, sometimes still warm from the sheeter, but mostly chilled.
- Once a cook removed a penny-stack from the cooler, pizzas were assembled immediately. We sometimes pulled three 10-stacks from the cooler if it was busy, but they also went quickly (since it was busy), i.e. skins were never given a chance to warm-up prior to make and cook.

Let me know questions - Lightmeter.





Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2011, 11:19:44 PM »
- The dough was allowed to rise 6 hours +/- after making. It was always at room temperature. We punched it down once, maybe twice. i.e. prep person mixed the batch, monitored rising, punched it down and put it in the cooler before their 8-hour shift completed. No critical timing here, summer and winter rising rates were obviously different. All that mattered was dough made it to cooler before "prep" punched out for their shift.

6+/- hours! This is very interesting. This must account for a great deal of the flavor profile because the ingredients are very basic. I am sure the rest is the budweiser compressed yeast. I wonder what Shakeys of 2011 is using for yeast?

At any rate, this gives more support to the idea that the puffiness from a laminated dough is caused by steam through trapping air between the layers. Another point is the shortening, which would be small solid bits in the dough at refrigerated temperatures. This would melt in the oven and help separate the layers in a very random manner on a microscale. Many thanks for the information, I think this is a direction I need to go to increase the "malty" profile in my crusts. I never would have fathomed to let the yeast grow so much out of fear they would be exhausted overnight.

Offline fazzari

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2011, 12:09:31 AM »
No doubt, the sheeter is a critical component of this style crust. I personally think of the "American" style not so much a style, but derived more from a "process" of producing pizzas at a large scale; something no ma-pa pizzeria could do in the day. For quick service, Sherwood found a way to make a lot of pizzas each day using a sheeter. As such, the "American" style came as a result of the “process”. I'd think Round Table pizza was a close follower.

Although the above "might" be true, and I have to admit to believing the same thing for years..I no longer believe that this is the case at all.  And my only proof is that a great laminated crust is still very, very popular in a world where one can buy any kind of pizza he wants.  And although I "might" be biased (but I don't think so!), some of the best meals I've ever eaten were made on a laminated cracker crust.. Yes, I love pizza...all kinds of pizza, and I wouldn't turn up my nose at a cracker crust in favor of say a Tutta Bella pie, or a pie from Serious Pie...one just has to enjoy the different qualities each style of crust brings.
As for the shortening...we made laminated cracker crusts for years with no oil whatsoever...it's the lamination process, which uses the layers, to squeeze the cells....that gives this crust it's unique properties.

John

Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2011, 12:41:07 AM »
Budweiser yeast followed by a 6 hour rise....... This just made my wheels spin on the internet for hours since my last post. I'm thinking, the yeast that Anheiser-Busch started selling during prohibition was most likely what they brewed the beer with. Y/N? If so, then this must be a brewer's yeast, not a baking yeast. It was a by-product of their brewing process. This would explain the long fermentation at room temperature in the Shakey's recipe. With an ADY or IDY there would be no reason to do this over the couse of 2-3 days. I have the strain number from White labs for this beer, and it's fermentation temperature is 50-55 degrees. Not really room temperature, but after mixing it in a dough, I could easily see this working..... why do I say that? Because I have produced a similar result going the other way around! Currently I am taking a local microbrew and boiling it off about 10 minutes to evaporate most of the alcohol and reduce it down. I am adding this to my dough and have had some moderate success getting good flavors out of the crust. It's about as thick as malt liquor and smells like a frat house after a week of partying! I need to try the brewer's yeast again!

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2011, 10:31:59 AM »
Dan:

Sounds like you are on to something here.  Go for it!  :chef:

Lightmeter, once again your comments are much appreciated.  I agree with you about the origination of the "American" style of pizza crust and that Round Table was no doubt a close follower.  Most American style recipes that I have seen, and work with, remind me more of a pie crust dough due to the fat content (shortening, butter, oil, whatever) and way it was rolled out so thin (by hand or through a machine).  I suspect this was because it was what was familiar to people living west of the East coast, and they didn't necessarily have the same ingriedients readily available to them that someone from NYC or Boston or Phili other East coast cities would have had.  Certainly the origination of Pizza Hut's original thin-n-crispy pizza crust seems to support this theory.

Glad to have you here, LM.  Keep 'em coming!  :)

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #98 on: January 21, 2011, 10:37:46 AM »
Dan:
FWIW, back in the mid-70's, my mother was friends with the owners of a local retail bakery. They would sell her one pound packages of what was labeled Anheuser Busch bakers yeast. Also, a one-time co-worker who lived in Old Bridge, NJ told me A-B had a yeast plant there. This was a few miles away from the A-B brewery in Newark, NJ.

It would be interesting to know if A-B sold brewing yeast as well.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 10:39:43 AM by Zing »

Online DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2011, 11:55:54 AM »
Dan:
FWIW, back in the mid-70's, my mother was friends with the owners of a local retail bakery. They would sell her one pound packages of what was labeled Anheuser Busch bakers yeast. Also, a one-time co-worker who lived in Old Bridge, NJ told me A-B had a yeast plant there. This was a few miles away from the A-B brewery in Newark, NJ.

It would be interesting to know if A-B sold brewing yeast as well.


So do you know for certain this was bakers yeast? Or was it brewer's yeast? Did it look like this: http://www.esnarf.com/4795k.htm ?

See I am thinking they just took their brewer's yeast and instead of fermenting beer, they grew it up in vats with malt syrup then changed the process to be a yeast collection rather than a beer production. This way AB could keep their current operations going, just discarding the precursors to making beer and selling the yeast instead. They could also take the beer byproducts and remove the alcohol and sell it as a non-alcoholic beer. If this was indeed baker's yeast, it must be a whole different strain altogether.

I also figured out that using beer in a dough is not the same as using a bunch of yeast cells. With a boiled off beer, you're using the byproducts of the yeast, whereas with the cells, the flavor is entirely different. This would explain why I get closer to the flavor I want by using a local microbrew. It's not as processed as say a can of budweiser. I think what I am after are the yeast cells. Time to look up my buddy that brews his own beer.  ;D

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 12:45:08 PM by DNA Dan »


 

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