Author Topic: My First Attempt ny style  (Read 4454 times)

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Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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My First Attempt ny style
« on: August 14, 2008, 07:02:23 PM »
Well my first attempt went good. I baked on a stone (14x16 square) bottom most level rack in a 525 oven for about 10 minutes came out very nice but rim really. i liked it very much and the best pizza i have made at home so far (thanks to you guys) but im sure I will get better in time. I would post pics but im not allowed yet. i posted the dough formula on the newbies welcome page. I cold fermented for 24 hours, and let it get to 68 degrees on the bench for about 1 hour (should have waited longer maybe?) i dont have a peel but i used the back of a large sheet pan ( i had from a restaurant I worked for :))  and dusted it with semolina (sp) flour! well i post pics when I can i only have 2 pics so not a big deal. i may make another tommorow night with a ball I have from another batch and see if that was ok. I used ADY so i dont know if that was the step that I screwed up on activating and thats the fault of the rim crust. I also do not have a infared therm (yet) so I dont know surface temp of the stone.  will post more later. thanks :pizza:



Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2008, 08:51:53 PM »
Wanted to add my formula for dough that I used!

Flour (100%):    533.69 g  |  18.82 oz | 1.18 lbs
Water (63%):    336.22 g  |  11.86 oz | 0.74 lbs
ADY (.25%):    1.33 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    9.34 g | 0.33 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.75 tsp | 0.92 tbsp
Olive Oil (1.0%): 5.34 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.19 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Total (166%):   885.92 g | 31.25 oz | 1.95 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Single Ball:   442.96 g | 15.62 oz | 0.98 lbs

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2008, 08:55:16 PM »
PIZZA4BREAKFAST,

What kind and brand of flour did you use, and how did you come up with 0.25% for the ADY?

Peter

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 09:52:42 PM »
King Arthur Bread flour, and I dont know why i used .25 I think that it maybe a mistake in the calculations that I did. (wonder if that is why my rim was not that tall so to speak. The original called for compressed yeast and if used ADY use half, but now I cannot find the initial formula that I got that from ( :o)  I have a few pics from another dough that I made and it was pretty good as well, I will post when It allows me to.. I was going to make the other pizza tommorow but I did another just a few minutes ago. Same rim crust situation.

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 10:00:38 PM by PIZZA4BREAKFAST »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2008, 10:15:33 PM »
PIZZA4BREAKFAST,

I believe that this is the dough recipe you used, which we refer to around here as the Lehmann NY style dough recipe: http://www.pmq.com/recipe/view_recipe.php?id=52. When I use bread flour in that recipe, I typically use a hydration of 62%, which is the rated hydration for the KABF. However, 63% will also work.

Can you tell me what size pizzas you made with the dough?

The pizzas look fine. You did a nice job.

Peter


Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2008, 10:22:43 PM »
Thanks pete,

That is the formula I used..... Maybe I will try a few things different next batch, i have one more ball that will be on 48 hours of fermentation tommorow that I will use. I made 14 inch pizzas right on the stone. I dont have a cooling rack so I used the screen on top of the pizza metal to cool so to speak worked good. I will def experiment with different formulations on hydrations and other ingredients but I am pretty happy with the results for the first time. i have a metalcraft 14x16 stone that is pretty good i think. I may try my next batch with IDY instead. Thank you for your time and posting pete! (oh I followed the link you posted to a tee for this recipe) I will be ordering some Sir Lancelot tommorow and thier yeast that they sell on thier website.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2008, 10:41:08 PM »
PIZZA4BREAKFAST,

Next time you might want to use a thickness factor of 0.105 along with the bowl residue compensation of 1.5%. That should give you a bit more dough that you can use to create a larger rim. If you use the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour, I would stick with the 63% hydration, which is the rated hydration for that flour. If you use the SAF Red IDY from King Arthur, you might use 0.25%.

If those pizzas were your first ones, I am impressed. Not only that, you are already using the Lehmann dough calculating tool to make things easier for yourself.

Peter

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2008, 10:51:28 PM »
Thanks again pete,

I love the calculator I am a spreadsheet type of guy as well so I have built a spreadsheet for this batch so I have some cross checking If I need it..... I have some food preping and preparing knowledge so I am comfortable in the following recipe dept (ha), I never knew the science so to speak behind pizza dough I just knew i liked to eat it :-D  .I just ordered my 2 bags of flour (KASL and SAF IDY yeast). I cant wait for it to be here! I want to try my grill someday with the stone but I think i should calm down a little and just get it to where I like it, I want to a from scratch sauce recipe as well and maybe even some Grande cheese too, I used polly-o whole milk 1lb cube block and shredded it myself, (I always use this in my eggplant parm and it is great for that dish) I dont know if it is *perfect* for Pizza yet but I will try some other cheeses in the grocery store.

Will post pics of friday nights Pie Tommorow i will try to get the full spectrum of pics from beginning to end.

cant wait to eat them tommorow :pizza:

Oh i forgot to mention that I did a bowl residue of 1.5% and dough balls came out close to perfect weight (maybe I should try 2.0% BResidue), I will try the TF of .105, I cant believe some of the Elite NY styles are like .08 or so that is pretty thin huh..
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 08:20:51 PM by PIZZA4BREAKFAST »


Offline Essen1

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2008, 12:39:45 AM »
Pizza4Breakfast...

Quote
Oh i forgot to mention that I did a bowl residue of 1.5% and dough balls came out close to perfect weight (maybe I should try 2.0% BResidue), I will try the TF of .105, I cant believe some of the Elite NY styles are like .08 or so that is pretty thin huh..

It's just a guess, but I'm assuming that your dough balls were somewhat overweight, or higher than your target dough ball weight? If so, why would you want to increase the bowl residue amount?

Instead of doing that, you might want to look at your formula and your kneading/mixing regimen, if you have that much residue. Or maybe lower the hydration a bit.

Like I said, it's just a guess, but maybe a helpful one.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 12:45:52 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2008, 08:52:10 AM »
Hey Essen,

Pete Suggested a little higher BResidue to me to get a little more of a rim, I was very happy with the whole pizza I just like a smidgen more of a rim. i guess I could make them smaller and leave more dough for the rim, or a higher Bowl residue %. i didnt inform Peter that I had used a B.R. in the first posts so i think he was suggesting that may give me a little more dough weight to not sacrifice my actual size pizza. (all assuming im understanding yours and Petes posts, LOL im very newbie to this sorry)

Thanks

Marc
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 08:54:49 AM by PIZZA4BREAKFAST »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2008, 09:35:25 AM »
Marc,

I mentioned using a larger thickness factor to get more dough, although increasing the bowl residue compensation will do the same thing. I have found that for most dough recipes, I can use a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% and get close to the desired finished dough weight provided that I carefully clear all of the dough off of the flat beater, the bowl, the C-hook, and my fingers and spatula. If I weren't as fussy, I could simply increase the bowl residue compensation to say, 2%. For doughs that are very sticky or wet, or where I am using a fairly wet preferment, such as a poolish, or if I am using the whip for some reason, I usually use a bowl residue compensation of around 2.5% or maybe a bit higher.

I have also discovered that when using a bread maker to prepare the dough, I can get away with a smaller bowl residue compensation because the bread maker, at least in my case with the Zojirushi, does a very good job incorporating all of the dough ingredients without leaving much of a residue in the baking pan.

In my view, if you are going to err with the bowl residue compensation, it is better to err on the high side. That way, you can trim back the weight of the finished dough to the desired amount. Of course, to do this, you will need a scale.

Peter

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2008, 06:28:45 PM »
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81608.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_816082.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_816084.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_816085.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_816086.jpg)


60 Hours on this ball. Came out not as crisps on bottom more of a rim weird that it was the same dough ball as the one I used after 24 hour cold ferm. 550 oven 10 minutes. Its so easy my daughter did it (ha just kidding she helped measure out the flour) pepperoni provalone slices and polly -o whole mozz.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 06:54:35 PM by PIZZA4BREAKFAST »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2008, 07:41:45 PM »
Marc,

My favorite photo is the first one. You daughter is beautiful.

I think your experiment with the second dough ball shows you how a dough from the same batch can bake up differently if subjected to a longer fermentation. In your case, unless you changed the bake temperature or time, it looks like there was not enough residual sugar in the dough at the time of baking to provide more crust coloration. Next time, if you plan to use a fermentation beyond a couple days or so you may want to do one or more of the following: 1) use a bit less yeast, 1) use cooler water, 3) reduce the hydration by a few percent, 4) add about 1-2% sugar to the dough formulation. As you gain experience, you will find how powerful the forces of temperature and yeast quantity are.

I'd also like to suggest that you get a wooden peel to go along with your metal one. I discussed the merits of both from my personal perspective and experience at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5326.msg45110/topicseen.html#msg45110 (Reply 1).

Peter

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2008, 07:50:10 PM »
Thanks for your kind words.

I want a wooden peel and will get one soon as finances are set for the month, my wife is about to kill me as it is (lol) Yeah it was a little less cooked looking all around with same dough thanks you for the tips on the future ones, crazy how the different factors affect the dough. I have 2 more dough balls we made today (me and my daughter) will try them at one day and 2 days.

Flour (100%):    537.94 g  |  18.97 oz | 1.19 lbs
Water (62%):    333.52 g  |  11.76 oz | 0.74 lbs
ADY (.5%):    2.69 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.71 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
Salt (2.0%):    10.76 g | 0.38 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.16 tsp | 1.05 tbsp
Oil (1%):    5.38 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.2 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Total (165.5%):   890.29 g | 31.4 oz | 1.96 lbs | TF = 0.102
Single Ball:   445.14 g | 15.7 oz | 0.98 lbs
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 07:52:15 PM by PIZZA4BREAKFAST »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2008, 08:13:38 PM »
Marc,

What you are doing is good. You will learn more from doing than reading. Just keep good notes to remind you of the results you achieved. I usually just print out the completed Lehmann dough calculating page with the dough formulation and write detailed notes on it as I make the dough and pizza. I then put the annotated page in a three-ring binder.

You should notice an acceleration of the dough fermentation process because of the doubling of the ADY. But that should be a good learning experience for you.

The normal range for salt in the Lehmann dough formulation you are using is about 1.5-1.75%, so you might want to note if the finished crust is too salty for your palate. The increased salt will also slow down the rate of fermentation. In fact, salt is often referred to as a "regulator" of the fermentation process. For a primer on salt in dough, see this King Arthur piece: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/salt.html.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 12:49:37 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2008, 12:49:01 PM »
Well I attempted a BBQ pizza with a stone that my friend had. i put it directly on the grates and after about 20 minutes i looked and it craked in half, but i figured I would try it anyway, I put the pizza on the stone and in about 1 and 1/2 minutes it had already almost burnt on the bottom without cooking on the top crust. I moved it to a 535 oven with my stone there, it was on for about 40 minutes at 525 and cooked it for about 5 more minutes. I liked the crust very much and the rim was perfect i think it would have been the best so far if not for the very overdone chared bottom (ha) maybe I need a pan or something in between the stone and grate!?!?! the Grill temp said 650 on the lid temp guage. I wanted to get a full pizza pic put batteries ran out, charged a few and got a slice, here it is.
(dough was the one I posted formula yesterday. I have a ball left but daughter is at grandmas house swimming for a few hours and she will not be very happy if I make it without her, guess I will have to make 4 balls at a time now, because I wanted to see this dough at 2 or 3 days cold ferm. i will be making other pizza tonight. any suggestions on the grill setup will be cool, i will search as well.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA11.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA12.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA13.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA1.jpg)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 12:50:57 PM by PIZZA4BREAKFAST »


Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2008, 02:03:27 PM »
cooked the other pizza in oven @ 525 for about 10 minutes, i then moved it to a screen and 1.5 minutes under broiler, you can tell the difference between the pics i took a pic of it before and after the broiler cook times. Bottom was not crisp really at all, dont know why im not getting enough crisp but the top was perfect. I also put the cheese down first then the sauce, it pooled to the middle and used to much sauce. Tasted good but want ore crisp, maybe when I get the grill down ill get the crisp I want there. I ve got the rim I want and the flavor is good as well, very light and airy, chewy as well, very nice.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA21.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA22.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA23.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA24.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/mpfister/PIZZA/th_81708PIZZA25.jpg)

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2008, 02:03:50 PM »
enough pizza till next weekend :P

Offline Essen1

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2008, 02:19:07 PM »
Pizza4Breakfast,

You might want to take a look at this thread, since it addresses some of your problems. And you should invest in a high-quality pizza stone, not the stuff you get at Bed, Bath & Beyond, for example.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7047.0.html
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline PIZZA4BREAKFAST

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Re: My First Attempt ny style
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2008, 04:06:10 PM »
Thanks essen for the info, my stone is a metalcraft that I purchase from a chefs warehouse local. (dont know if it is good or not. i may get some tiles at the h depot or something just scared of the chemicals.

I may try to put the stone right over the element there is a grate over the element about an inch away, right now I have the stone 1st slide in rack position about 4 inches away. i wonder if that is the problem. (also need a infered guage)

Thanks


 

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