Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!

[Villa Roma]

Here's a simple and inexpensive solution that almost anyone should be able to perform. Just remove the planetary housing then remove the attachment shaft from the housing. Drill a hole through the housing and bushing and press in a pin. This will prevent the bushing from migrating upwards. If you use a roll pin you can lubricate the bushing periodically with a needle oiler! How sweet is that? You could also tap the hole and use a set screw.

        Villa Roma

[Villa Roma]

I deleted the other video link to the LBE and put the 2 videos here. The first video is a tour of the LBE and the second video is a demo of a pizza making session. The pizza dough is 50% stone ground whole grain.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYRnKe6gJxs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYRnKe6gJxs</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcTzLKhACY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcTzLKhACY</a>

   
       Villa Roma

[NOLA-Man]

In search of a spiral hook, I called Kitchenaid to make sure I was ordering the right one, I have a tilt-head Artisan model, and they said my mixer wasn't made to use the spiral hooks, so I'm out of luck. She even said, "yeah the C-hook makes the dough climb up the hook and they don't work that well." REALLY?? Then why do you offer it? Guess I should have splurged and gotten the Pro600.

Bart

[ManChicken]

I have a Pro600 and have been having a problem with the spiral hook that I wonder if anyone else has run into.

I have the 'burnished' one - so part of my question is whether or not anyone can comment on the coated one.. but first to describe my issue:

Using a Lehman dough recipe for NY-style dough at various hydrations (most recently 61%), I have a problem with the dough constantly sticking to the hook;  Ultimately the dough winds up just spinning around in circles rather than being worked, and I have to stop, push the dough down off the hook, and restart.  In less than 30 seconds (it typically happens pretty quickly, like 5 or 10!) it will stick again.

I've been working with ~395g of flour; about 640g of total ingredients, enough for 2 dough balls.  I tried increasing to 3 hoping the extra mass would keep things down and moving, but it didn't help one bit.

Tonight I made another batch and started playing with the mixer as it worked.  I found that if I set the bowl lift at about half way between unlocked and locked (the handle sticking out perpendicular to the vertical axis of the mixer rather than fully up (bowl raised/locked) that the dough didn't stick and instead was really being worked by the hook down/into the sides of the bowl.  I didn't hold it rigidly in place either; just firmly enough to keep it in the same general place but letting bowl move up and down a bit from the pressure of the hook working into the dough and pushing against the bowl.

I have oiled/sprayed the hook beforehand or even during the process to no avail;  The dough just seems to incorporate the oil right off the hook and it goes back to twisting it's self around the end of the hook and spinning the entire mass around in circles.

So.. as I said at the beginning, does anyone have any experience with the coated hook compared to the burnished one and whether or not it sticks less?  The burnished hook's surface I wouldn't describe as "rough", but it's not glassy smooth by any means and seems like it's just that much more surface area the dough can grab onto.

I can certainly babysit the mixer and hold the bowl half-raised, but it's obviously boring and a bit irritating.  My only other possible solution is to buy an extra hook and try cutting about 3/4" off the end so that it's shorter, effectively accomplishing the same thing but letting me lock the bowl up and go on about washing the dishes while the mixer works.   But does anyone know if the hook is cast hollow?

Thanks in advance for any additional insights on this.

[Randy]

At least part of the problem is the size recipe is a bit small for a 600.  Try doubling it and make two pizzas.

Randy

[Villa Roma]

ManChicken....I have the coated spiral hook that I run on my K5SS Kitchenaid mixer. It has the narrow bowl and I haven't had any problems with the dough clinging to the hook. My batch size is usually around 1500 grams with a 66-68 hydration level. I mix on stir speed for a total of 4 minutes. The flour I use is 10-12% gluten.

As Randy suggested, you may want to try increasing your batch size. The KA mixers don't do well with small batches. I don't think you'll see a big difference between the burnished hook and the coated hook.

Another technique that works well is to hold back about a cup or so of flour and let the mixer knead a wet dough. Then slowly add in the remaining flour toward the end of the mix.

High gluten flour will have a tendency to ball up so you may want to try a lower gluten flour.

So increasing your batch size, wet kneading and lower gluten flour should solve your problem.

Here's a few videos of my mixer in action with the spiral hook and a 1500 gm dough batch.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os5Yqtobx04" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os5Yqtobx04</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b46UuQ4G4TE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b46UuQ4G4TE</a>

     Hope this helps.....Villa Roma

[ManChicken]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Unfortunately doubling my recipe is not really feasable, as I am single and live alone - As much as I love it, I just can't eat pizza for 4 days in a row or my butt will explode into gargantuan proportions!

I will keep playing and try some of the other suggestions.

[Villa Roma]

MC....I make 8 pizzas, eat 1, and freeze the rest. Then you don't have to cook for awhile .

     Villa Roma

     

[canadianbacon]

The main reason is becaus the sprial hook puts *much* more stress on the bearings in the head of the mixer, when you
see the KA in action with the sprial hook, you can see how much more intense the mixing is, vs the "C" dough hook that
in my mind, should never have been even put on the market.

That being said, - I do believe that if you don't stress the mixer, you could prob get away with using the sprial hook.

Me ? - I may take the plunge and buy the spiral hook, but would limit my dough mixing to enough dough for 1 medium pizza.

I've had my KA mixer now for, hmm, maybe 12 or 13 years, and it is still in mint condition.  I wouldn't want to ruin it in a few months
by stressing it.  ( I also have the DLX mixer however, and use that now for all pizza doughs ) ( but being a gadget guy, I do like that sprial hook )

That sprial hook is a thing of beauty isn't it ! 

Villa Roma,
It's funny, I was just thinking about this just yesterday. I've been considering doing the exact same thing you did and was going to start researching this morning.
I have the KSM150. My dough batches are generally in the 500-900g range. I can't see why I would have a problem using a spiral hook with my machine. I wonder why KA doesn't recommend this.

[canadianbacon]

Hi Villa Roma,

These images that you posted below, are these images from a company that actually does these modifications ?
If so, that's interesting, because I never knew there was a place out there willing to modify KA mixers.

If so, where did those images originate ? maybe they have info posted on where to send the mixer etc, for those
interested.

MTPIZZA....I bought the propane burner solely to use with the LBE to cook pizza. You can use the burner for many things like brewing beer, boiling lobster and corn or frying turkeys etc. as you mentioned.

Here are 2 solutions to the issues surrounding useage of the spiral hook on a C hook mixer. The fix would simply involve removing the planetary housing and performing 2 machining operations. The illustration is for the K5SS mixer. The first illustration is the original design, followed by the 2 solutions.

Solution 1:
The first operation would be to widen the retaining ring groove on the attachment shaft to accept a new heavy duty retaining ring.

The second operation would be to remove some material from around the planetary housing to allow space for a thrust washer and a nylon washer. A metal washer can also be used in lieu of the nylon washer. A machine shop would be able to do this work or someone with a lathe and drill press.

Solution 2:
The second illustration shows another fix using a redesigned bushing. It's a little more involved as the original bushing would have to be pressed out and replaced with a redesigned bushing but would be a better solution. The machining operations are similar to solution 1.

Seems like someone could make a fortune modifying these mixers. Charge $30 and make $20 profit. You can easily modify 4 per hour so that would be $80 per hour or $640 a day!!! Let's just say there are 1 million mixers out there, can you say..... CHA-CHING?  Sure, I knew you could!

       Villa Roma

[canadianbacon]

Somebody mentioned you can buy the sprial hook on ebay, or you could simply call KA again
and order the spiral hook for "your" "Pro600 mixer 

In search of a spiral hook, I called Kitchenaid to make sure I was ordering the right one, I have a tilt-head Artisan model, and they said my mixer wasn't made to use the spiral hooks, so I'm out of luck. She even said, "yeah the C-hook makes the dough climb up the hook and they don't work that well." REALLY?? Then why do you offer it? Guess I should have splurged and gotten the Pro600.

Bart

[Villa Roma]

Hi Villa Roma,

These images that you posted below, are these images from a company that actually does these modifications ?
If so, that's interesting, because I never knew there was a place out there willing to modify KA mixers.

If so, where did those images originate ? maybe they have info posted on where to send the mixer etc, for those
interested. A machine shop would be happy to do it for a small fee.

CB....I made those drawings as proposed solutions to the spiral hook issue. I'm not aware of any company that would modify the mixers. It seems like the third solution could be performed easily and inexpensively by someone that was handy. A machine shop would be happy to do it for a small fee.

     Villa Roma

[abc]

KitchenAid KSM90 is what i have. 

Is the spiral hook physically not able to lock in place on some of the older KA mixers, is that the problem?

If it can, i have no problem buying one, thanks.

[Villa Roma]

KitchenAid KSM90 is what i have. 

Is the spiral hook physically not able to lock in place on some of the older KA mixers, is that the problem?

If it can, i have no problem buying one, thanks.

I don't know if the spiral hook will fit on a KSM90 but you may want to go to a store that sells that type and take the hook off the spiral model and see if it fits on a model similar to yours. I believe the mounting shafts are the same on all the mixers and it's the bowl clearance that could be an issue. The KSM90 has a 4.5 quart bowl and the other mixers are 5 or 6 quart.

My K5SS mixer is 12 years old and the spiral hook works perfectly.

     Villa Roma

[pcampbell]

So does the spiral hook fit on an Artisan mixer (regardless of whether or not it is recommended) or yes only with modifications?

[pcampbell]

One of the things I noticed is the spiral hook you never had to stop the mixer and stop the dough from rising.  I have been making 3 22oz balls (1000 grams of flour) at once in the Artisan mixer, and while I don't really think it is too much for the motor or the bowl, the dough just keeps riding up and up. 

I  also noticed my mixer is leaking a little bit of oil.

In your new design, would you make a new grove for the snap ring, lower, or are you pulling the attachment shaft down enough to fit a larger washer and using the original spot for the snap ring?  I have not taken my mixer apart to see how this works exactly..

[jimd]

I have a four quart Kitchen Aid mixer (I think this is their smallest). I bought the spiral hook and discovered that, while it fits onto the shaft no problem, the hook is too "long" and hits the bottom of the bowl. Thus, it was not usable "as is".

I found that if I raise the mixer arm (i.e., the large half of the unit onto which the hook is attached) about half way up, the hook is able to clear the bottom and also make its complete turn around the bowl. Rather than stand around holding the arm in the correct position, I fashioned a crude block or shim to keep it in the correct position.

So far so good, and the spiral hook is a huge improvement over the old "C" hook.

I understand that using the spiral hook in this fashion could, perhaps, damage the mixer, but I will take that chance and see how it goes.

Jim

[pcampbell]

Could someone measure the overall length of their spiral hook?  Is there any difference between the white and "burnished" aluminum in terms of length?

[doughboy]

Could someone measure the overall length of their spiral hook?  Is there any difference between the white and "burnished" aluminum in terms of length?

I just bought a KA prof 600, the metal alum spiral measures 7 inches from the top to the tip in a straight line. When I bought it, I was disapointed that it didn't have dough hook, well, now I'm pleasantly surprised it is for the best.....have always mixed my pizza doughs by hand.  I now have to read a millon posts to get the right technique for the KA mixer.  Already made several batches with very good results, just need to zero it in.

[pcampbell]

Thank you for the measurement.  I am guessing this also means that it will not work with the Artisan due to the length.  When I put my regular C hook in there, which is about 5.5" in length, there is no more than about 0.5" between the end of the hook and the bottom of the bowl.  I guess this means either save up for a new mixer.... or improvise!  I could be the first 3rd party source for spiral hooks for Artisan mixers