Author Topic: Pizza Cook Book  (Read 5455 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2004, 11:31:02 AM »
Yesterday, I recalled that I had bookmarked a recipe site some time ago that seemed to have a pretty broad collection of recipes for pizzas, as well as many other food groups.  The site, called "recipe hound", is at http://www.recipehound.com/index2.html (click on pizza in the menu on the left).  I randomly checked out several of the recipes in the pizza collection and noticed that several were attributed to James McNair, a well-known cookbook author, and several that were attributed to a Pasadena newspaper.  I also saw one that was attributed to Bon Appetit.

I found a link to the person responsible for the site, Stephen Mason, and sent him an email asking him whether he had ever encountered any copyright problems because of recipes of others being incorporated into his pizza recipe database.  I mentioned to him that our site was considering its own recipe collection, which would differ from his collection in at least one material aspect--in that members and guests of our forum could enter recipes whereas in his case he has sole control of what goes into the collection (he provides an email link for people who want to submit new recipes for possible inclusion in the pizza database).  I received a reply to my email this morning in which he said that he always tries to note the sources of the recipes in his recipe database but that he would remove a recipe from the website if someone objected.  He added that this has never happened during the 8 years since he started recipehound.  His advice for us is to "go for it."  

If the forum does decide to "go for it", then I think the groundrules should be laid out quite explicitly.  I don't think that having a recipe bank should be an invitation, for example, for posters to, say, copy all of Peter Reinhart's recipes into the recipe bank.  If the recipes are already on the Internet, then they may be fair game.  But, even in any such instance, if the author is known, then there should be attribution of the recipe to that author.  

I personally like Foccacciaman's recommendation that the recipes be primarily recipes of our members, whether they are completely original recipes or modifications of recipes of others, and expressed in the members' own words (that is, don't copy someone else's expression).  I think those are low risk situations.  After decades of people playing around with dough and pizza sauce recipes, I would venture to say that there are very few recipes out there for pizza doughs and sauces that are not already in the public domain.  After all, how many really new ways are there to combine flour, yeast, water, salt, a sweetener and a fat? (In any event, copyright protection wouldn't attach to a simple list of ingredients, only to an original expression of the recipe, like describing how to practice the recipe.)

I think what remains to be considered is the process that would be put in place to control what recipes go onto the site and how to communicate the groundrules to prospective posters.

Peter





Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2004, 11:52:27 AM »
Yes I agree, definately to avoid direct postings of cookbook recipies of anykind. If this happens to be the recommended recipe, then as I said before the poster could just say that I used the " La Cucina" pizza recipe on page 87  of so and so's book, I also changed it to add this spice or that.

We have had some copyright descussions before on this site, and to directly post a recipe that is in current print is probably not a good idea.
We do not want to get Steve in any hot water or have anything happen to our little Land of Pizzialos.  :D

(spoken in the voices of the munchkins , in The Wizard of Oz) :)

 Welcome to the land of the pizza makers, follow the quarry tile stone, To The Emerald Kitchen where in lives Steve the Wizard of ZZA.

Sorry Steve, I could not resist, I was in one of those moods today. I just sent my oldest boy off to the first day of school this morning so I am having a much need relaxing day with my 3 year old. ;D
Ahhh, Pizza The Fifth Food Group

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2004, 11:59:21 AM »
Well. Foccaciaman, you've done it again. I've got to try that this weekend. Here's one for ya. I tried deep frying small pizza pockets, like they sell in the frozen food area. They turned out great. It's amazing what a little TLC can do to a recipe.

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2004, 02:15:22 PM »
Sounds great.
Gonna have to had that to my list of dieting wonders.

If it has lots of butter, cheese or is DEEP FRIED, then you know its good. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ahhh, Pizza The Fifth Food Group

Offline giotto

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2004, 11:35:11 PM »
There's little question that plenty is out there on the web; while some of the pizza stuff is good, so much of it is really.... bad.


While many sites merely reiterate popular approaches, like stones for NY pizza, many on this site have found some great results with various other approaches, including simple cheap screens, which I used to get this tasty crust today:
(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/slicebottom.JPG)


And if I could have figured out how to get these yummy holes in a crust that starts thicker at the top and ends skin thin down at the bottom, I would have saved a whole helluva lot of time:
(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/slice1.JPG)


Heck, I would have taken this black & white version:
(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/slicebw.JPG)


All I ever wanted was to have a final bite like this:
(http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/bitesize.JPG)

And I got it by getting rid of the sugar, minimalizing the mix time to less than 10 minutes, always keeping the mixer to level 1 to reduce oxidation, allowing the gluten to form in the refrigerator, and reforming the gluten with a simple fold-over of the dough 14 hours later to make it incredibly strong and elastic, before I put it on a screen and then in the oven.  I'm going to try it one more time to ensure its consistency.  
« Last Edit: September 01, 2004, 11:47:12 PM by giotto »

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2004, 12:05:25 AM »
Loods great Giotto:  ;D
If you do indeed achieve somewhat the same results with the repeat please shar the recipe that you used for it, I would be interested in trying it out. :)

And I very much agree with the overabundance of
overlaping of simple and often mediocre pizza recipes on the web.
Especially in the area of sauces where many people think that adding everything but the kitchen sink makes a great sauce.
When the truth lies in but a few key ingredients and how the are used and where you got them.
Ahhh, Pizza The Fifth Food Group

Offline giotto

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2004, 02:12:16 AM »
Foccaciaman:

You are so right about key ingredients.  Unfortunately, you may need to tape your eye brows to your forehead to stay awake as I take you through this over-indulging realization that helped me reach this latest crust.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/yabbse/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=524;start=msg4823#msg4823  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 02:23:44 AM by giotto »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2004, 12:25:14 PM »
Giotto,

I agree with you about the quality of recipes that are available over the Internet.  Once in a great while I will try one out just to see what I get, especially one that seems to defy whatever I think I know about pizza dough chemistry and physics.  Here's an example (below) of one such recipe--apparently used by a professional.  I thought that there might have been a typo somewhere in the recipe but when I did more searching, I kept on getting the same recipe.  Possibly there is something in the flour that is not otherwise listed in the recipe ingredients.  Maybe you and others on this forum can figure it out--and maybe even guess how the dough is likely to behave and what the finished product is like.

High-Gluten Flour Master Pizza Dough Recipe

7 1/2 c. high-gluten flour (such as ConAgra Hy-Jump or Dakotana or other high-gluten flour with around 14 % protein content)--I used the KA Sir Lancelot flour
3 T. sugar
1 oz. vegetable shortening (about 1 T.)
1/4 t. salt
3 c. water (lukewarm to slightly warm)
1 1/2 T. active, dry, granulated yeast (must be granulated, Red Star Granulated Active Dry is preferred)
Pinch of sugar, for proofing

Place the flour, the 3 tablespoons of sugar, the shortening and the salt in a bowl of a heavy-duty stand mixer fitted with a dough hook.  Place the water in a separate bowl, add the yeast and pinch of sugar, and let stand for 5 to 6 minutes or until the yeast rises to the top of the water.  With the mixer running, add the water-yeast mix and mix for 10 to 12 minutes.  Remove the dough from the mixer bowl and place on a floured sheet pan.   Knead slightly, adding more flour if needed, and form a large dough ball.  Refrigerate the dough for 45 minutes before using in various recipes.

Peter

 

Offline giotto

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Re:Pizza Cook Book
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2004, 02:34:10 AM »
Looks like he wants to keep the competition way down, or get closer to matza soup.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2004, 02:38:43 AM by giotto »