Proofing

[PizzaBrasil]

Here goes my language again!
Sorry to all.
Pete-zza, no, the best result was obtained when the dough was fermented for 24 hours at ambient temperature.
Then, first one 24 hs ambient temperature fermented dough, second 12 hs ambient temperature fermented dough, third +24 hs refrigerated dough
November, the flavor difference is there, as noticed, however, the behavior of the dough when baked (and even stretched) was different, showing an explosive develop and lot of holes in the cornicione, in the case of the 24 hs ambient temperature dough.
And yes, the preferment or starter was the fed Camaldoli or Ischia.

Luis

[Pizza_Making_Dave]

Everyone, thanks for even more discussion on this topic

I have been away for the last few days and just know caught up again.  Went to the Pizza Expo in Atlantic City.  Absolutely NO talk of Sourdough starters!  Oh well... Some pretty good pizza but I guarantee most of the people on this thread make better.  But in fairness, they are trying to mass produce their pies and keep them consistent and inexpensive. 

I can't tell you how much I have learned from you guys.  I easily held my own there and I have never worked in a pizzeria.  And having used and understood the dough calculators it was very easy for me to understand and talk about what was going on.  Thanks...

Just a quick clarification on Reinhart's method - he does use an active starter.  He just recommends feeding it the day before and then putting it in the fridge to be used within three days.  Then a 2 hour warm-up before using. 

I still haven't tried any room temperature only pizzas I will.  My last experiment (still in the fridge) was to make a dough with only 5% starter and letting it go in the fridge for 2-7 days and see what happens.

As for Jeff doing something in the business world of pizza, that sounds great.  Does anyone know if he wants to use sourdough starters in his pizza?  I asked the dough guys at the Expo (Pillsbury) if they knew of any pizzerias using soughdough starters and they could not come up with one.  Not only that, they basically blew it off as no one should try??

Dave

[fabio]

Dave,

Congratulations on your success! It really doesn't surprise me that nobody at the expo had heard of/uses a sourdough starter. It seems to be a lost art, and even many pizzerie in Naples don't use it. In general, I think people fear using it because they don't understand it and they view it as an uncontrollable variable. The strain for commercial yeast was chosen, at least in part, for its consistency. I live in Canada, and I don't know of any pizzerie in the country that use natural yeast. From what Jeff says on his site, Patsy's uses a natural starter, but I don't know beyond that.

[Pizza_Making_Dave]

Which would you guys say is the best sourdough culture out there for a pizzeria and why?

[Pete-zza]

From what Jeff says on his site, Patsy's uses a natural starter, but I don't know beyond that.

fabio,

Several members have delved into the question of whether Patsy's uses a natural starter, and the conclusion is that Patsy's does not use any starter, or even a preferment. To the best of my knowledge, you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of pizza places in the U.S. and Naples that use a natural starter--at least that we are aware of (see, for example, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3732.msg34593/topicseen.html#msg34593).

Peter

[fabio]

So Patsy's just uses commercial yeast? I think Jeff claims that he obtained a culture from dough that he bought from them. I sent him an email once asking if there was a huge difference between it and camaldoli and he said that there was a difference, but not enough of one to warrant trying to obtain the culture from patsy's. How was the conclusion arrived at that they don't use a starter?

[scott r]

Fabio, all you have to do is taste the pizza and you can tell that they don't use a starter.  They have a lot of flavor from the char, which is what fooled jeff at first, but he now realizes that there is no sourdough flavor in their pizza. 

Also, workers or the owner of Patsy's have told me, PFTaylor and some other forum members that they use only commercial yeast.

What Jeff did capture is an excellent starter culture that probably comes from his home in Atlanta, or the flour that he fed the dough he purchased from patsy's.