Author Topic: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven  (Read 196025 times)

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Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #625 on: March 30, 2008, 08:38:43 AM »
Thanks for the order Dave,
Looking forward to seeing some of your pies.


Now that some of you 2stone users have had a chance to experiment for a while,
I would be curious to see what some of your favorite formulas are. It would be nice to
try a few and see what I may be missing. If you could post some that would be great.

I have never tried Pete-zza's cracker style but it sounds good so I am going to give it a try
baked in a 2stone and post the results......I'm thinking 650 with a little longer bake time may work

willard


this was a slice of 50/50 Caputo high gluten
dough ball was 1/2 size as normal and stretched
out very thin.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 01:58:44 PM by 2stone »


Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #626 on: April 02, 2008, 10:55:37 AM »
I'm looking forward to planting the container garden again.
This year it is going to be more "pizza-centric"

here are some shots of last years plantings.

Offline PizaJim

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #627 on: April 02, 2008, 04:59:39 PM »
2Stone,
Have you made the cracker in your oven yet? Can't wait to get mine! Nothing like your own garden!
2Stone Novice

Offline PizaJim

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #628 on: April 02, 2008, 05:13:37 PM »
2Stone,

One more thing. Is the cart above going to have a clamp for the propane tank to keep it in place?

Jim
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Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #629 on: April 02, 2008, 07:34:37 PM »
Hey Jim,

Most of what I had in the garden could be used on pizza,
but I'm going to have five times the Basel and see if I can find
a few variations of San Marzano tomatoes along with some Turkish
Oregano someone recommended. Otherwise I discovered last year that
Bell peppers grow like weeds in a good container.

Your oven will be ready soon! and I think there will be a small chain from
the top to hold the tank from sliding forward on the cart.

Bet you loved the weather today didn't you!

willard

Offline PizaJim

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #630 on: April 03, 2008, 05:12:09 PM »
Willard,

Loved the weather, hope we get more soon! Can't wait to get the oven, I have a couple of frozen Peter Reinhart Neo doughs in the oven I'll use to practice my peel ejection. Can't wait to see how your cracker crust comes out.

Jim
2Stone Novice

Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #631 on: April 05, 2008, 08:07:03 PM »
my first cracker style

Offline FVG

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #632 on: April 06, 2008, 05:34:38 PM »
Tried a different grill setup today. I turned on the infrared burner at the back of the grill -  Stone temp got to 1005 degrees. Pizza cooked in under 2 minutes. Used Caputo 00 flour again at 60% hydration with just flour, yeast, and salt.

Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #633 on: April 06, 2008, 08:17:10 PM »
Your pie looks great.....that's hot!

Funny thing I was playing around with high temps today too.
I had the stone closer to a 1000F and did these bread sticks (bread flour)
in about 45 sec on a screen.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #634 on: April 06, 2008, 08:19:55 PM »
Willard,

How did you like the first cracker style pizza made on your unit?

Peter

Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #635 on: April 06, 2008, 08:36:38 PM »
It was excellent Peter,

I'm going to make that a lot more often.
I lost track of the oven and got it up past 700
So next time I'll stay around 600 and I think with a longer
bake time it will have a little more crunch to it.

willard

Offline LabRat

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #636 on: April 08, 2008, 02:01:27 PM »
Ok, I've taken all I can take and I can't takes no more!  My order has been placed! ;D

Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #637 on: April 08, 2008, 03:40:45 PM »
Hey Labrat,

Thats great.....don't go trying to do what FVG is doing (1005F) right off the bat.
That's down right insane!!.........But I see he is using "Caputo" and most likely 3-4 days
cold proofing with no sugar, otherwise there is no way he would get away with that!


Canadianbacon,

We went kayaking on Sunday (two days of nice warm weather)
Is winter letting up any for you yet?

willard   

By the way I tried doing the same thing I just did with the bread sticks again
today (900+F) and today one of my screens just burst into flames. At first I thought
the bread sticks were burning, but it looks like the oil that I used to season the screen with
could only handle so much heat.....and then it was all over!!!
So I guess to be on the safe side 750+ is about all a seasoned screen can handle with bread
sticks. With pizza I think it is a different story because the wet dough covers up the whole screen
and keeps it cooler.


Offline FVG

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #638 on: April 08, 2008, 06:57:01 PM »
Going over 1000 degrees is probably not something I will try and repeat and would never have even tried it if I was not using the Caputo flour. Made for some fun experimentation but at those temps you can not take your eyes off of the pizza when cooking. The dough was a 2 day cold rise with no sugar.

I normally cook at around 800 degrees and may try shooting for 900 next time.

Offline WestCountry

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #639 on: April 08, 2008, 10:53:13 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum and joined a few days ago. This is my first post.  I am a pizza enthusiast here in Denver for many years, making good pizza in my kitchen oven  (low heat) with a Peter Rhinehard recipe.

Inspired by you all here in the forum, its time to take the next step and get a 2stone pizza oven which I look to purchase in near future (…so be ready Willard!   :D ). I have a question for everyone here and hoping for some feedback. (I hope its appropriate to ask this here on this thread).

I have been reading about a lot of recipes (pizza Raquel, Varasano, Lehmann’s NY, etc). I want to start using a recipe now in preparation for my upcoming 2stone purchase. 

What is a great recipe to use with 2stone oven?
(Assuming I don’t want to use sourdough starter, since I have not gone down that road yet)

Can anyone make any good recommendations? My favorite pizza style would be Neapolitan and NY style, and I’m not opposed to buying some Caputo 00 flour.

Thanks to you all for raising the bar,
Chris


Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #640 on: April 09, 2008, 09:23:45 AM »
Chris:

I would think you could do any pizza you want with a 2stone, but a Neapolitan or New York style would probably benefit the most from a 2stone.  I think the Pizza Raquel would be a good one with which to start.  Or maybe mix it up and try making 2 different types of dough and see which one you preferred, like maybe one with caputo flour and one with high-gluten.
Let them eat pizza.

Offline mmarston

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #641 on: April 09, 2008, 10:46:36 AM »
Chris,
Get yourself an IR thermometer and start out around 700 degrees. Then work your way up if you like. Really high temps work best with the Caputo or similar flour.
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry


Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #642 on: April 09, 2008, 11:21:27 AM »
Chris, and anybody else interested.

I tried to coax a few recipes from the 2stone users myself
on an earlier post. My guess is they are all busy making great
pizza!! I also think we all like to experiment a lot tweaking this
and that in search of the "elusive pie"

There are some fundamental "tips & tricks of the trade" that you pick up
after a while that relate to most recipes or should I say most flour combinations.

I am going to try to share some of mine (everybody has their own bag of tricks)
So why not call them "Fundamental tips & tricks" and if any one wants to add
to them or dispute them thats fine. The list is mostly related to the dough or crust.

1. Flour types / mixtures
2. Core ingredients
3. Measurements
4. Mixing procedures / methods
5. Proofing methods / temperatures
6. Dough handling / dividing / containers
7. Final dough handling shaping
8. Topping procedures
9. Peel tips & tricks
10.2stone baking tips & tricks

This turned out to be a top ten list.
If I have left out anything really important
please let me know.


Note:
I am a novice baker, but if there is anything that I can share
from my experiences that would be helpful I will try to cover these
points in a brief way.  (and would be happy if any one wants to add their 2 cents)


willard
« Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 01:56:37 PM by 2stone »

Offline mmarston

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #643 on: April 09, 2008, 11:24:21 PM »
Here's the recipe I've been using in my 2Stone oven lately. Baked at 800 f for around 2 minutes.

"DiFara clone"

Flour 100%  75% 00/25% KASL
Water 63%
IDY .4%
Salt 1.72% (less is fine)

tf .08

Proof yeast in water for 10 minutes, add to other ingredients and mix in KA for 8 minutes. Room temp rise for 1 hour, punch down, fold, divide into balls, lightly oil, put in small loosely covered plastic containers and then into the fridge for 1-2 days. Room temperature rise for 2 hours and bake.

Uncooked sauce (Equal amounts 6 in 1's and gently food processered Muir Glen plums, strained as necessary to remove water, oregano, fresh Basil and  black pepper) fresh Mozz, a little parm, more oregano and minimal toppings

I'm getting ready to try something new while trying to overcome starterphobia.

I think it may be time for us to publish a recipe collection

The original development of this recipe is here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg28531.html#msg28531

and here

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5699.0.html
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 10:07:42 AM by mmarston »
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #644 on: April 10, 2008, 09:17:09 AM »
"Fundamental tips & tricks"


1. Flour types 

All purpose unbleached flour ……… light & airy
Bread flour unbleached ……… robust & airy
High gluten bleached / unbleached flour……..very robust, chewy, larger air pockets
Organic all purpose unbleached flour…….light & airy, closest domestic flour to Caputo
Imported Caputo pizzeria flour …… light & airy, handles high temperatures well

Blends….. Add 25-50% high gluten to Caputo and Organic for a more robust crust.
Add up to 20% whole wheat for a more rustic texture and flavor.

Some bakers claim that bleached flour produces higher gluten. I use bleached high gluten
flour and tend to agree. Otherwise all of these flours, properly executed make great crust.

marc adds: most if not all unmalted flours will handle the heat well.


2. Core ingredients

Flour / water / instant dry yeast / sea salt.

Less yeast is better. Too little salt contributes to a bland tasting crust.
The flavor is determined by salt and fermentation…..longer fermentation / better flavor




3. Measurements

I use the “Jerry Mac free form” seat of your pants, winging it, hand full of this / pinch of that method. I taste for salt content, use very little yeast for longer rising times, and determine hydration levels (water content) by the texture of the dough in the mixer and by the feel of the dough. Usually around 60-65%....... (I believe I am in good company)

Note: I do not recommend this method since it is almost impossible to share your recipes with people on this forum. (Sharing “artistic type” recipes will most likely only bring you scorn and ridicule from the scientific baking community! just kidding) Therefore measuring by weight is by far the best and most accurate method to reproduce your dough and get the same results.

more to come
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 09:08:57 PM by 2stone »

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #645 on: April 10, 2008, 09:43:05 AM »
2 stone,  I would like to add that most if not all unmalted flours will handle the heat well.  It is the malted barley itself that leads to a prematurely brown or burnt crust. 2 examples,  sperry bread flour,  hogdon mils natural white flour. just fyi for  for those who cant find caputo easily -marc
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 11:58:55 PM by widespreadpizza »

Offline WestCountry

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #646 on: April 10, 2008, 09:52:47 AM »
I just wanted to say…

You all ROCK!   

This is awesome information and advice. A big thanks. Keep it coming. I’m excited to get cranking on taking my pizza to the next level.

Best Regards,
 ;D
Chris

Offline mmarston

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #647 on: April 10, 2008, 10:03:06 AM »
Here's a topping tip for the list.
Good fresh Mozz is often very wet so after slicing put it between paper towels to absorb some of the moisture.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 10:04:46 AM by mmarston »
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline MWTC

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #648 on: April 10, 2008, 11:50:22 PM »
I have a lesson learned.

When you bake in a tin plated steel pan, in the 2stone oven, with a stone temperature of 650 degrees, make sure the dough covers the entire bottom of the pan. Because if you don't, the pan will warp, and it won't set flat anymore. I tried baking a smaller pizza in my 12 inch pan and ....  :'(

MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 11:55:42 PM by MWTC »

Offline 2stone

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Re: Reverse engineered coal fired brick oven
« Reply #649 on: April 11, 2008, 08:08:08 AM »
"Fundamental tips & tricks" continued


4. Mixing

autolyse….autolyse….autolyse. This is paramount for good gluten development.
Mix 100% of the water (including the diluted yeast) with 75-80% of the flour and let it sit for 20-30 min. This allows the flour to fully absorb the water. Add the balance of the flour along with the salt. Mix at slow speeds until dough develops a smooth consistency.

Find out what the optimum load for your mixer is (my DLX hits its stride at about 6-8
Cups) and stick with the same batch size, it will help you get more consistent results.
Pick a hydration level that gives the dough optimum handling characteristics. When the dough is too wet it requires more bench flour which degrades the dough quality. If it is too dry it is hard to stretch out, and will produce a tougher crust along with less oven spring. Use cold flour from the freezer or fridge. This keeps the dough temperature down while mixing. Mixing creates friction which creates heat, resulting in a tougher crust.



5. Proofing

Proofing and high heat are the two “prime magical components” of great pizza crust.
All dough is created (almost) equal. The core ingredients are the same. It is the extended proofing (using less yeast and lower temperatures) that catapults your crust into the big leagues. I like to think of bulk proofing prior to dividing as the second stage of Autolysis.

In a taste test with some friends of mine (one was a native New Yorker) with same day, 2 day, and 7 day dough, the 7 day dough won hands down. Much can be said about this subject