Lightest, tastiest crust yet

[November]

Unfortunately, I've not the equipment nor the expertise in absorption science to test it.

Well, I do, so please share with me what you want me to test.  You brought it to the table as a plausible scenario, so you would have to at least know the basics of what to test for.  It's kind of hard to call something plausible without knowing enough about it to know where to begin.

Instead of the example of matric potential hysteresis, I could also offer a less esoteric counter-example.  Actually I am intuitively fond of the model that says the sifted flour should be dryer because the sifted flour having absorbed more water has more successfully trapped that water in internal flour particle crevices, pores, and chemical bonds.  This bound up water should be less available to produce surface stickiness (note: I am imagining surface stickiness as caused by "free water" - maybe a flaw in my model?)

I repeat, science exists to explain the phenomena behind our observations.  It isn't a medium for floating ideas about what didn't happen.  You mistake me for Sisyphus.

Instead let's work together to design interesting, creative experiments that give us useful data that enables us to actually observe what's going on to confirm or disprove whatever hypotheses we may have.

Let's start with matric potential hysteresis.

- red.november

[scpizza]

I wrote a big long reply and realized it would just make everyone here miserable to continue.  If it successfully ends the discussion, then I hereby surrender!

[November]

Below are my test results.

I began to write out several questions about temperature change differentials and an explanation of energy flow via water vaporization to shed some light on your numbers, but at this point, frankly I just don't care.  I can work out the calculations to determine how many Joules of energy it takes to change the temperature of your dough by 1 Kelvin (>5400 J), and how much of that change would come from your reported evaporation (>14916 J), and see that your numbers are obviously not taking something into account.  It's obvious to me that trying to find out where the discrepancy is would be a fruitless endeavor.

Believe whatever you want.  I'm not going to waste anymore time on it.

- red.november

[abatardi]

I wrote a big long reply and realized it would just make everyone here miserable to continue.  If it successfully ends the discussion, then I hereby surrender!

That's how I have to end arguments with my wife too.  But the preferred way is it to throw a dress at the person and say "here..put this on. you gonna act like a bitch, you gonna look like a bitch too."  ;-) 

I'm sure no one will get that reference though. 

- aba

[Bill/SFNM]

Crust keeps getting better. Today's batch:

Caputo 00 Pizzeria 100%
Vienna Starter 2.5% of total dough mass
Sea salt: 2.5%
Water (including starter) 62%

Dissolve salt in water. Dump in 75% of flour. Mix until just combined. Rest 5 minutes. Add starter and with fork mixer running, slowly add remaining 25% of flour. When all combined, knead for 5 minutes. Rest for 20 minutes. Knead for a few turns around the bowl.

Bulk fermentation 65F for 19 hours. Very little volume increase. Individual ball proof 75F for 5 hours. Oven deck ~975F.

Dry-cured sausage/fresh mozzarella. Toppings pretty ho-hum, crust fantastic.

Bill/SFNM

[scpizza]

Looks awesome, Bill!  Incredibly open crumb you accomplished there.

[grovemonkey]

Bill,

What I find real interesting about that post is your fermentation technique.  I reckon that must be about the right amount of time to get good flavor without the dough becoming too sour.  Is that correct?  If I leave the dough out beyond 36 hours at around that temp, the dough will take on a very sour flavor..

Thanks for posting the photos..

/jealous

grove

[trosenberg]

I hate to sound ignorant but what is "Vienna stater"  (starter?)

[Bill/SFNM]

I hate to sound ignorant but what is "Vienna stater"  (starter?)

It is the Austrian starter from sourdo.com. My mistake. It is from Innsbruck, not Vienna:

This starter is from the old section of Innsbruck. The bakery carries a sign over the entrance proclaiming 1795 as the year the business opened. The culture is especially adapted to rye flours, rises somewhat slowly and produces one of the more sour doughs.

Actually, with wheat flour it is one of the mildest cultures and my current favorite for all kinds of baking.

Bill/SFNM

[jkandell]

I believe Marco has recommended the use of 3-5% starter in the past with the view that it is one of the fundamental things that makes pizza and bread significantly differ, and yet I see you going for 10% and others up to 30% ?maybe I'm not reading this right,and I haven't experimented as much as I probably should myself.(See ref. Re: Basic Crust/Base Recipe Help Tips
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2006, 07:26:41 AM »

I'm just a beginner at pizza, but I did note that Marco goes 20 hours at 65F with his 1-5%, and Bill went only 12 hours.  So 10% isn't as different as it looks.