Author Topic: Help finding a stone  (Read 9798 times)

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Offline gordieb

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Help finding a stone
« on: October 02, 2007, 03:13:20 PM »
Hey all new member but been lurking for a while.....

Anyhow I'm looking for a stone for my oven and was wondering if anyone in or around the denver metro area has a good source for unglazed stones?

I've been to countless tile stores and every homecenter that I know of and everytime I ask for unglazed ceramic or terra cotta tiles I get looked at like I'm speaking Portugese....

Even after I explain what I'm looking for they all seem to even more perplexed.

Just for the record I'm currently using a piece of granite countertop while it works ok I think something more pourous (sp?) would be better but boy that granite is indestructable heh.

Thanks for all the useful info I've pulled off here long before I was a member  :angel:

P.S. Need to add I am not opposed to ordering off the internet if someone has a good idea from there plus if at all possible I would like a single stone 14" x 14" or 16" x 16"

Gordie
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 03:30:19 PM by gordieb »


Offline Art

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 08:01:49 AM »
This is my standard recommendation. It's the best. http://www.bakingstone.com/order.php
When baking, follow directions.  When cooking, go by your own taste.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 11:03:29 AM »
Gordie, 

Everyone's needs are different but a good place to get a grounding on pizza stones and tiles is this one, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1488.msg13540.html#msg13540. Note also the embedded links in Reply 24, which I updated today to include this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5122.msg43479.html#msg43479.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 11:51:38 AM »
I'm almost convinced that one could splash cold water on thick, hot cordierite and it wouldn't crack.  It is very thermal shock resistant and continues to impress.  I have been very happy with the cordierite shelf I ordered.  I have used various pizza stones and tiles in the past with a mix of disappointment and trepidation over the cracking issue, and in some cases a sticking issue.  In my case, both tiles in a wood-burning grill and a Pampered Chef pizza stone in an electric oven have failed spectacularly.  Regardless of stone/shelf/tile brand, the best advice I have is to buy it at least 0.625" thick (although the tiles I used that cracked were 0.625"), preferably 0.75" thick.  It takes a little longer to heat up than a 0.375" or 0.5" thick stone, but it will save you from a lot of headaches in the future.

I'm a perforated disk kind of guy, and I haven't stopped using the cordierite shelf since its first use three weeks ago.  Just for reference, I paid just under $20 for the 16" x 16" x 0.75" shelf, an additional $6 packing fee, and $15.88 for shipping.  Sheffield Pottery no longer carries the 0.75" in square shapes.  They have either 0.625" or 1.0" thicknesses.

- red.november

Offline November

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2007, 12:30:11 PM »
Peter,

Soon I'm going to post a thermal and physical property comparison between FibraMent material and cordierite.  I have obtained the elusive engineering specifications for FibraMent material which will allow me to make the comparison scientific in nature.  In my mind, there are really only two widely available, first-class baking materials out there: FibraMent and cordierite, so this comparison should help people decide between the two.

Where do you think the best place to post this comparison should be?

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2007, 01:20:46 PM »
Where do you think the best place to post this comparison should be?

November,

Since I have stones of both materials, I am looking forward to the results of your comparison tests.

I know you don't like to start new threads with everything new you do, but in this case I think the tests you plan to perform deserve a separate thread.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2007, 01:29:07 PM »
Peter,

Since I have stones of both materials, I am looking forward to the results of your comparison tests.

These aren't tests, at least not on my part.  This is just going to be a "black and white" comparison of engineering data.  The manufactures have already tested their respective materials and provided the specifications.

- red.november

Offline les_garten

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 06:56:17 PM »
I'm almost convinced that one could splash cold water on thick, hot cordierite and it wouldn't crack.  It is very thermal shock resistant and continues to impress.  I have been very happy with the cordierite shelf I ordered.  I have used various pizza stones and tiles in the past with a mix of disappointment and trepidation over the cracking issue, and in some cases a sticking issue.  In my case, both tiles in a wood-burning grill and a Pampered Chef pizza stone in an electric oven have failed spectacularly.  Regardless of stone/shelf/tile brand, the best advice I have is to buy it at least 0.625" thick (although the tiles I used that cracked were 0.625"), preferably 0.75" thick.  It takes a little longer to heat up than a 0.375" or 0.5" thick stone, but it will save you from a lot of headaches in the future.

I'm a perforated disk kind of guy, and I haven't stopped using the cordierite shelf since its first use three weeks ago.  Just for reference, I paid just under $20 for the 16" x 16" x 0.75" shelf, an additional $6 packing fee, and $15.88 for shipping.  Sheffield Pottery no longer carries the 0.75" in square shapes.  They have either 0.625" or 1.0" thicknesses.

- red.november

Hi Red,
   I've been reading your posts about cordierite, reminds me of an old Star Trek episode mentioning Corbamite or something to blow up the Enterprize, but I digress...

   Anyhow, I have a Fiberment that is 15 x20.  It fits perfectly in my oven which is most likely why they make that size.  Can you get the Kiln shelves in 20 x 20 and cut it with a Diamond Tile Cutting Blade?

Les
---Les Garten--- Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Fat Clemenza

A Pizza with radius z and thickness a has volume Pi*z*z*a

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 07:09:34 PM »
Have anyone ever used fire bricks, or are these just way too thick?
Patrick


Offline November

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 08:06:21 PM »
Can you get the Kiln shelves in 20 x 20 and cut it with a Diamond Tile Cutting Blade?

I don't see any reason why not, but you can also find shelves that will fit in a standard size oven without cutting too.  Here are two examples:

1"
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/KILN-SHELF-p/t16201.htm

5/8"
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/KILN-SHELF-p/t162058.htm

- red.november

Offline les_garten

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2007, 09:31:52 PM »
Thanx November!

I appreciate the shelf links.

Les
---Les Garten--- Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Fat Clemenza

A Pizza with radius z and thickness a has volume Pi*z*z*a

Offline Shotgun682

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 10:46:07 PM »
In my search for a stone I found this one

Anyone have any comment?

It is a replacement stone for an oven

It says it is 19"X19"x2" thick for $74 and it is a fibrament D stone

I am a new member so it won't let me post the link but it is @

Instawares.com

NFE-66795 is the Nemco part number

Says it is for a #6205 oven

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 11:00:43 PM »
Shotgun682,

Here is the link to the stone you mentioned: http://www.instawares.com/removable-baking-stone-19in.nfe-66795.0.7.htm.

The FibraMent products are among the most popular on this forum. They are manufactured by AWMCO, whose website is http://www.bakingstone.com/. The stone you mentioned appears to be a customized commercial size. Although the Instaware ad copy says that it can be used in a home oven, it will not fit in most home ovens with clearance space around the stone. Some members have trimmed the 19" FibraMent stone to fit their home ovens.

Peter

Offline Shotgun682

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2008, 11:09:33 PM »
Thanks pete

I have measured my oven and I can take up to a 23W X 18 7/8D stone so I may have to just trim the stone a little.

I have seen the Old Stone 14 X 16 x 7/8 at a local restaurant supply for $40 but I really want a bigger stone.

Do you know what the Old stone is made of?

But I was wondering about it being 2" thick.. It says shipping weight is 19 pounds and stone weight is 13 pounds

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2008, 11:38:58 PM »
Shotgun682,

I have an Old Stone pizza stone of the size you mentioned, and I am pretty sure it is made of Cordierite. My stone has "feet", or pedestals, so the thickness of the stone is actually a bit less than 7/8".

I believe the stone you are considering at Instawares is a replacement stone for a commercial deck oven. All of the FibraMent pizza stones for home use (http://www.bakingstone.com/order.php) are 3/4" thick (and they are without "feet"). However, as noted at http://www.bakingstone.com/commercial_stone.php, commercial stones are available up to 2" thick. Commercial deck ovens need thick stones for heat retention and recovery. You could use a commercial stone in a home oven but it would take longer to get to the desired temperature than a thinner stone.

Peter


Offline Shotgun682

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 11:57:44 PM »
I was thinking that the Old Stone was cordierite.

If you look at an American Metalcraft stone which says it is a made of cordierite it looks like and Old Stone

I would prefer a cordierite stone but I can't find an Old Stone larger that 14 X 16

I have looked @ Sheffield Pottery and I can get a cordierite shelf 18x18 in 5/8 or 1 inch thick or I might get the 18X24 and cut it 2 inches

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2008, 12:28:05 AM »
Shotgun682,

The American Metalcraft baking stones (as opposed to pizza stones) are made of Cordierite, as noted at http://www.amnow.com/pizzaSupplies/pizzaStones.html. When I was researching stones, I called AM and it was a worker in the warehouse who confirmed for me that their Cordierite baking stones had "feet".

I know that Cordierite stones come in larger sizes, because they are used in some commercial deck ovens (e.g., Bakers Pride). However, I don't know who supplies the larger stones, either original or replacement. A lot of pizza operators go to AWMCO because they do sell replacement stones (e.g., see http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=29888#29888 and http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=971#971).

Peter


Offline Jackitup

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2008, 07:13:22 PM »
Fibrament people will custom cut your stone to ones specs. I've had one for years now and like it alot. Leave 1/2 to 1" perimeter around the outside for heat circulation
Jon
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Offline bdshort

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2008, 08:59:45 AM »
I'm looking at getting the 15x20 fibrament stone from www.bakingstone.com, but I'm wondering what they charge for shipping.  I'm in Alaska, so I'm imagining it'll be expensive.  I went through the purchase process up until the "Submit Order" page, but never saw an estimated shipping cost.  I sent them an email to ask, but it's the weekend so I'm not expecting a reply for a while.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2008, 09:44:48 AM »
I'm looking at getting the 15x20 fibrament stone from www.bakingstone.com, but I'm wondering what they charge for shipping.  I'm in Alaska, so I'm imagining it'll be expensive.  I went through the purchase process up until the "Submit Order" page, but never saw an estimated shipping cost.  I sent them an email to ask, but it's the weekend so I'm not expecting a reply for a while.

Brian,

According to this AWMCO (FibraMent) webpage, http://www.bakingstone.com/order.php, the shipping is free for a 15" x 20" x 3/4" stone.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 09:48:40 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Shotgun682

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2008, 12:01:54 PM »
I have been checking many websites for a stone

If you want a fibrament stone Bakingstone.com is the best place to order one..Shipping is included

But I have been having concerns over cracking of Fibrament stones..

Just a few here have said that they have cracked on them from thermal shock and the 10 year warranty does not cover it for that.

Has anyone had an Old Stone crack on them?

Has anyone had a Cordierite stone crack?

Offline Art

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2008, 12:14:48 PM »
I have been checking many websites for a stone

If you want a fibrament stone Bakingstone.com is the best place to order one..Shipping is included

But I have been having concerns over cracking of Fibrament stones..

Just a few here have said that they have cracked on them from thermal shock and the 10 year warranty does not cover it for that.

Has anyone had an Old Stone crack on them?

Has anyone had a Cordierite stone crack?

I've had my Fibrament stone for a couple of years and have had no problem. I suppose if you put a cold stone in a hot oven or take a hot stone out of the oven, you might encounter a problem. Is that what you mean by "thermal shock"? If so, don't do that.  ::)  Art
When baking, follow directions.  When cooking, go by your own taste.

Offline Shotgun682

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2008, 12:23:35 PM »
Hi Art

I would never put a cold stone in a hot oven

But things do happen and a few have said that they spilled sauce on the stone while placing their pizza on the stone and it cracked

Bread bakers also like some steam in the oven to produce that crisp crust.

Has anyone tried this for pizza?

You can spray the wall of the oven with water from a spray bottle to produce the steam

November has said he thinks it is almost impossible to crack a cordierite stone from thermal shock


Offline Art

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2008, 12:46:41 PM »
I have used the water spray method when baking baguettes on my stone with no problem. I can't say that I've ever spilled pizza sauce on it since I use a SuperPeel and that isn't an issue. I can't imagine that a small amount of room temp sauce would have any effect, though.   Art
When baking, follow directions.  When cooking, go by your own taste.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help finding a stone
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2008, 01:45:06 PM »
Shotgun682,

I have both a Cordierite (Old Stone) and a Fibrament stone, both about 3/4" thick, and I have never suffered any breakage with either stone in my standard electric home oven, although I am careful not to shock either stone along the lines mentioned in the posts above. The members who may best be able to answer your question about stone damage are the members who have LEB units (many of them experimental) where the bake temperatures can exceed 800 degrees F on occasion. From what I have read, some of those members say that for those very high-temperature applications one should not get the thin cheap stones as are sold at places like Linen 'n Things and Bed Bath and Beyond. One of the few members that I can recall who had a bad experience with the Fibrament stone is Y-TOWN, as he noted at Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6318.msg54289.html#msg54289. In his case, he was using his stone with an LEB unit that he assembled. With care, I think that most stones will hold up well in a home oven environment, although given a choice and budget permitting I would go with either a Cordierite stone of a Fibrament stone of a decent size and thickness.

On rare occasion I will read about someone using steam in the oven while baking pizzas. However, like Art, I have never tried that for pizza. Also, I can't recall ever reading about professional pizza operators using steam while baking pizzas. Maybe some bread makers who already have steam-assisted ovens to bake bread may bake pizza with the steam also, but I don't recall specifically reading about that.

Peter



 

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