Author Topic: My Giordano's Style Pizza's (with pics) (Read 97735 times)

Pete-zza · « **Reply #140 on:** May 02, 2009, 02:32:28 PM »

John,

It is somewhat difficult to calculate the thickness factor for the main skin by itself because there is an excess of dough for both skins that gets trimmed off at the point where they come together at the rim of the pan. I took a lot of measurements at a lot of different points while I was assembling the last pizza so I will have to examine my notes to see if there is a way to calculate the thickness factor for just the main skin. In practice, that value may not mean all that much because you wouldn't want to make just the exact amount of dough. You want some extra dough in the main skin to hang over the side of the pan and you may want at least a bit of extra dough for the top skin just to be on the safe side. When I used the deep-dish dough calculating tool, I entered a value for the depth of the dough in the pan that was 2.5" even though that was more than the depth of the pan itself (2"). The 2.5" value gave me the extra dough to hang over the side of the pan. I thought that that was a neat little trick.

To be true to the Giordano's style, you would want to use a pan with a depth of 2". However, there is no reason why you can't use a pan with a depth of 1.5". You will just have to decide how deep you want the pizza to be in the middle with all of the cheeses and fillings. That will determine the amount of exposed crust at the sides of the pizza. If you look at the Giordano's video, you will see examples of pies where the top skins are higher up on the pizza, most likely because of a lot of fillings, and where the top skins are low on the pies, most likely because of few or no fillings. The two pies I made conformed to both of those scenarios.

What I found interesting about the Giordano's stuffed pizza is that the top skin is so thin that with all of the cheeses and sauce and crust melding together when consumed you can't even tell the top skin is there. You really have to look carefully to find the top skin. Most people could care less and just eat the pizza. Maybe the true value of the top skin, apart from its appeal as a marketing tool (its connection to stuffed Italian Easter pies and the like), is just keeping the sauce all in one place and not having it seep into the rest of the pizza. There are slits that are formed in the top skin but I didn't detect any significant seepage via those slits.

I forgot to mention in my last post that for the last dough I made I added the oils directly to the flour and combined with a fork before adding the water. I have not read anything about how the doughs are made at Giordano's, but I would imagine that one viable option is to use a pre-mix that already contains the oils (there is a lot of food technology out there to do this). That mix could also contain the yeast, flour and salt. Such a mix would make life a lot easier for the people who have to make the dough since all they would have to do is add water at the right temperature. I used rehydrated ADY for both of my Giordano's clone doughs but I believe that it may be possible to use it dry in a pre-mix if the dough is to be given a long fermentation time. I have tested this idea before and it does work. Maybe I will try that with the next iteration of the Giordano's clone dough. Another possibility is to just use IDY. Maybe Giordano's is already using IDY.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #141 on:** May 02, 2009, 03:17:33 PM »

John,

After my last post, I went back to my notes and saw that I had written down how much scrap dough I ended up with for the last pizza. I then took the total dough weight and subtracted the value of the weight of the top skin and the weight of the scrap dough to come up with a figure that perhaps fairly accurately represents the amount of dough I used to make the main skin. I then used the deep-dish dough calculating tool with the original baker's percents and pan data (but no bowl residue compensation) and, by playing around with the thickness factor box, was able to come up with a thickness factor value that yielded the correct amount of dough. That thickness factor was 0.116532. Whether that is high or low I have no idea but ultimately it would be helpful to have a workable thickness factor value since it would allow one to calculate an amount of dough to use for the main skin for any given size and shape of pan and, by using the depth of dough feature of the calculating tool as previously discussed, add an amount of extra dough so that the rolled out main skin overlaps the side of the pan. The top skin can be calculated separately, as before, using its own thickness factor, and its weight added to the weight of the main skin. The total weight can then be used in the deep-dish dough calculating tool to come up with the amounts of ingredients for the entire dough (main skin and top skin).

Peter

JConk007 · « **Reply #142 on:** May 03, 2009, 08:30:03 AM »

Peter,
Yes thanks, thats why I was asking about the thickness factor I can calculate top and bottom weight and add together for the calculator just as you mention. So I'll use .11 and .06 and thats takes care of the weight but rest of the calculator remains a mystery

I do like the looks of the second formulation, but I willl be patient. If you read the other post on the Florida Giordanos the member mentioned the crust was bland and tasteless, but BTB loved his visit? I also agree that the top crust goes a bit unnoticed (unless you look for it) based on the the texture and the quantity of cheese and ingredients
I am liking the new Peteordanos style

John
oh I have never had a real Giordanos either ! but my local makes a 16 stuffed that is awsome!! I'll get a shot of it

Pete-zza · « **Reply #143 on:** May 03, 2009, 09:23:30 AM »

Quote from: JConk007 on May 03, 2009, 08:30:03 AM

So I'll use .11 and .06 and thats takes care of the weight

John,

As noted earlier, the set of values I last used were roughly 0.117 (main skin) and 0.05 (top skin). Like you, I have never had a Giordano's pizza, so I don't know whether my numbers are accurate. If you'd like, I can give you the baker's percents I last used but I will be changing them the next time I try another Giordano's clone.

Peter

toekneemac · « **Reply #144 on:** May 09, 2009, 10:32:28 PM »

Any tips on rolling the dough? I try to roll it and it likes to contract on me. Hard to handle. My recipe is:

2c flour
1/2 tea yeast
1/2 tea salt
1/2 cup water
3 tbsp oil

Combined and I let rise for 2 hours, refrigerated overnight, and brought to room temp.

Any tips? Gladly appreciated.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #145 on:** May 09, 2009, 10:50:55 PM »

toekneemac,

Based on the limited information you provided, I don't see any reason why you had problems rolling out the dough. The hydration and oil quantity seem to be sufficient to allow you to roll out the dough without excessive elasticity. Maybe you can explain more fully what you mean by "Hard to handle." It's possible that you need a longer fermentation time. The dough used by Giordano's is cold fermented 3-4 days.

Peter

toekneemac · « **Reply #146 on:** May 09, 2009, 11:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on May 09, 2009, 10:50:55 PM

toekneemac,

Based on the limited information you provided, I don't see any reason why you had problems rolling out the dough. The hydration and oil quantity seem to be sufficient to allow you to roll out the dough without excessive elasticity. Maybe you can explain more fully what you mean by "Hard to handle." It's possible that you need a longer fermentation time. The dough used by Giordano's is cold fermented 3-4 days.

Peter

Great information about the 3-4 days fermentation. Thanks. Actually, I tried to roll it out again, with 1/8" bands on my rolling pin. Seemed to work ok. I think I was trying to roll more of the dough than it was capable of! lol

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #147 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:31:46 AM »

my 1st attempt! not the prettiest. i used loos recipe, and did 20% semolina. the crust tasted great. i should have used the 1 inch pan as i orignally calculated for. as a result both skins were stretched a bit too much. and one side fell after it hit the oven. sauce was 6-1 which i drained for 1/2 hr and then i blended, for i prefer more of a puree. i needed more sauce. I used whole milk shredded mozz and sweet italian sausage. 25 min on middle rack on the stone that was preheated for an hour at 450 seemed perfect. looks aside it was delicious. friends stopped by and this was their 1st stuffed. they enjoyed. i have 3 more dough balls....we'll see if i cant get it out of the pan next time. it wasnt sticking but man, i dont have that move down yet!! thanks for all the recipes and advice!!

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #148 on:** June 25, 2009, 12:28:05 AM »

well i used the smaller pan, on my 2nd try and it was much better....although i slit the top skin in various spots it obviously wasnt enough. tasted really good though! sweet italian sausage, whole milk mozz, semolina 20% in the dough, dough aged 3 days in fridge. 6-1 crushed tomatoes!! and i got it out of the pan! the 6-1 sauce i added no salt this time, as well as drained less. but the flavor was fantastic! 6-1 RULES!!! again thanks or all the help!

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #149 on:** June 25, 2009, 01:42:56 AM »

i think i need to move the rack down 1 increment i think with this new pan. i put foil on the top for the last 5 min. b/c the top was browning much faster. on the whole it needed a little more time in the oven. the crust has some white spots!!

lilbuddypizza · « **Reply #150 on:** June 25, 2009, 08:56:27 PM »

Geez, dude---looks awfully good to me..........yum.

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #151 on:** July 02, 2009, 10:44:39 PM »

thanks man!! this recipe is just fabulous. it was equivalent or better than the the frozen girdanos i had shipped. i dont think they ship sausage....so to me it was better! thanks again gang for the great recipes!

haybot · « **Reply #152 on:** September 09, 2009, 02:00:02 PM »

I just ate my first self baked stuffed crust and it was great. Well, almost. I put too much salt in sauce because i probably didn't mix it enough before tasting but anyway the pizza tasted great. Unfortunately i can't tell how close it was to Giordanos because the one and only time i've been there is over a year ago but i'll test it on my sister when she gets back from chicago.

Anyway i followed the recipe from IlliniPizza from the thread right here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1478.0.html .

I measuret the ingredients in cups and weighted them to have a more precise recipe for the next time. I only added more water because the dough wouldn't pick up more flour.

Recipe for the dough:
400g AP Flour
160g Water
24g Olive Oil
8g Salt
8g Sugar
5g Dry Yeast

I mixed all the dry ingredients with the oil, then added the water and roughly hand kneaded it for 3 minutes until all the flour was absorbed. I cut of 1/3 for the top crust and let it rest for 1 1/2 hours at room temperatur and then moved it in the fridge for 4 hours and then removed it and baked it after 1 1/2 hours.

I used a generic spring form to bake it in and preheated my stone to 230°C for 45 minutes.
For the toppings i went with what giordanos calls tropical delight. I wasn't sure about the bacon and because i like it a little crispy i threw it into a hot pan before using it on the pizza. For the cheese i used grated mozzarella.

The sauce was, as stated before, too salty. I used two 14oz cans of tomatoes and drained them quite a while, blended in 2 cloves of garlic and a little dried oregano, a little sugar and too much salt.

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #153 on:** September 09, 2009, 11:55:30 PM »

holy cow! i must admite im not a fan of the pineapple, but good for you! great looking pie! WOW!!

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #154 on:** September 09, 2009, 11:57:10 PM »

im a bad typer too..obviously....admit. admit im not a fan of the pineapple! Sorry. again really nice looking crust and crust layers in general!

Aldo · « **Reply #155 on:** October 25, 2009, 02:27:48 AM »

I want to chime in.

First, I need to say that while the aim here seems to be to emulate a "Giordano's stuffed pizza" (a dubious undertaking as I doubt its chain of stores faithfully makes anything consistent with what is served at, say, the Hyde Park store -- though I recall its dough was good), I offer thoughts cooking these pizzas for 20 plus years, just for me. That said....

On the dough: I NEVER let mine rise.

On the sauce: I agree, stuffed calls for more watery than thin, but I do reduce mine. I disagree that not cooking it is the thing to do. I'm saying thin it a bit, but not to the consistency of sauce for think crust (though mine works well in both).

Last: I'm gratified to see that it looks like no one has copied what I do for sauce, as it has taken me literally decades of trial and error to get it. It's a personal thing, and it has taken decades to perfect, so it's secret, but many over the years have remarked that it's the best they ever had. Clue: sauce is good by itself, though it shines most when on pizza. It is a piece of a great pizza, not stand-alone. And despite all this talk of dry --use fresh herbs. Canned tomatoes (the right kind,at least) is fine, but the taste difference between dry and fresh herbs is remarkable. Trust me.

Thanks!

BTB · « **Reply #156 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:23:48 AM »

Quote from: Aldo on October 25, 2009, 02:27:48 AM

I doubt its chain of stores faithfully makes anything consistent with what is served at, say, the Hyde Park store . . .

I've been eating Giordano's pizza from way back when they first started in their little restaurant on California Ave. on the SW side of Chicago. They've grown alot and in my experience are one of the few chains that makes a consistent tasting pizza among all their many stores and restaurants, from Illinois to Florida.

Quote

On the dough: I NEVER let mine rise.

Giordano's let's their's rise. But if you prefer it otherwise, that's fine.

Quote

On the sauce . . . stuffed calls for more watery than thin . . .

Giordano's sauce is definitely not a thin watery sauce. While not as chunky as say a Lou Malnati's pizza, it definitely has a nice chunky and crushed tomato consistency, which is the way I like it (and I always order "extra" tomato sauce).

Quote

Last: I'm gratified to see that it looks like no one has copied what I do for sauce, as it has taken me literally decades of trial and error to get it. It's a personal thing, and it has taken decades to perfect, so it's secret . . .

One of the great things about this website is that we SHARE our successes and failures, recipes and information with others to enable each other to make the best pizzas ever. I hope you intend to do likewise.

Here's some pictures of Giordano's stuffed pizza with it's more chunky and crushed tomato sauce consumed at their Tampa, FL restaurant earlier this year. --BTB

Matthew · « **Reply #157 on:** October 25, 2009, 09:36:16 AM »

Quote from: BTB on October 25, 2009, 08:23:48 AM

One of the great things about this website is that we SHARE our successes and failures, recipes and information with others to enable each other to make the best pizzas ever. I hope you intend to do likewise.

I couldn't agree more. Because of the great people on this forum sharing their successes, failures, recipes, formulas, etc, my pizzas went from mediocre at best to a product that I am extremely proud of. The first photo is from a pie I made less than a year ago & the following pie is typical of my current pizza. Thanks to you all & let's keep sharing our knowledge!

loowaters · « **Reply #158 on:** October 25, 2009, 03:17:15 PM »

Aldo, and I can't believe that I'm actually responding to this, you are a troll.

I make better pizza than you and I'm not going to tell you how I do it. Now fight!

You've said what you wanted to say, NOW GO AWAY! We help each other in this forum and even when differing viewpoints create heated discussions/arguments, knowledge is shared. You've brought nothing! One post like that in a forum like this one should have you banned.

Loo

mrmojo1 · « **Reply #159 on:** October 25, 2009, 05:52:19 PM »

Quote from: Aldo on October 25, 2009, 02:27:48 AM

I want to chime in.

First, I need to say that while the aim here seems to be to emulate a "Giordano's stuffed pizza" (a dubious undertaking as I doubt its chain of stores faithfully makes anything consistent with what is served at, say, the Hyde Park store -- though I recall its dough was good), I offer thoughts cooking these pizzas for 20 plus years, just for me. That said....

On the dough: I NEVER let mine rise.

On the sauce: I agree, stuffed calls for more watery than thin, but I do reduce mine. I disagree that not cooking it is the thing to do. I'm saying thin it a bit, but not to the consistency of sauce for think crust (though mine works well in both).

Last: I'm gratified to see that it looks like no one has copied what I do for sauce, as it has taken me literally decades of trial and error to get it. It's a personal thing, and it has taken decades to perfect, so it's secret, but many over the years have remarked that it's the best they ever had. Clue: sauce is good by itself, though it shines most when on pizza. It is a piece of a great pizza, not stand-alone. And despite all this talk of dry --use fresh herbs. Canned tomatoes (the right kind,at least) is fine, but the taste difference between dry and fresh herbs is remarkable. Trust me.

Thanks!

Heee!! youre funny! but for your own info, around here there's really no ego issues as you are displaying. besides if its really so good, you really dont need to tell anyone about it, people should be speaking for you. not to mention, becuase of your zen like state in pizza making you should really be a more nurturing force, but hey feel free to post some pics of your pies!! be careful tho, the folks around here will probably be able to see how you do it, and what you use. there are some of the best pizza makers here, as well as some real geniuses, and theyre real observant! and picky! lets see that super sauce thats sooo unique!! thanks for the laugh!!!