My Giordano's Style Pizza's (with pics)

[Pete-zza]

Brian,

Like you, I suspect that there may be a connection between the Giordano's deep-dish pizzas and the Easter Pie, for the reasons you mentioned and despite the long passage of time. And, like you, I did a fair amount of searching for Easter Pie recipes over the weekend, both of the sweet variety and the savory variety. I also saw cinnamon but another spice that made an impression was nutmeg. It showed up more for sweet pies but I did see it a few times for savory pies. Nutmeg has a subtle but noticeable flavor, and can be used in many dishes in small amounts. As with cinnamon, it is also readily available. When I tried searches combining nutmeg or cinnamon with Giordano's, I did not find anything. In fact, I am surprised by how little is published about Giordano's and available on the Internet. About all you will find is reviews of their pizzas.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Over the weekend I sent another email to Giordano's, asking whether there possibly was an error in the spinach deep-dish pizza information that was previously emailed to me. This morning I received a reply that "olive oil" was intended, not olives in some form. Curiously, that suggests that there is more than one dough formulation. To me, that doesn't make good business sense, given the powerful flavors of spinach and sauce, etc. that can mask the flavors of the crust.

I have twice asked for the nutrition data on the Giordano's pies, and twice my requests have been ignored. I'm trying hard not to read too much into that. People don't always reread their emails before completing their replies. I see that happen a lot with posts on this forum.

Peter

[Brian200001]

Pete,
I actually sent an email over the weekend asking about the spices.
I figure what the heck - haha.

By the way, regarding my previous post - have you ever heard of such a spice/herb as that millifori or orange flower-essence as supposedly an cornerstone spice/herb used in the holiday easter pies?  Have you seen that in your research as well?

I know its not quite practical for them to use an exotic herb or spice. But then again, they're Giordano's and certainly buying in bulk would lower the cost. As I said, I don't have a clue as to its rarity or popularity. Perhaps its as common as oregano in italy - i'm quite ignorant to it so I just don't know.

I have read posts online regarding the usage of this spice and some suggested that orange rind was not nearly as good of a flavor. After all, we're not looking for an orange flavored crust either.  doh!

Brian

[Pete-zza]

By the way, regarding my previous post - have you ever heard of such a spice/herb as that millifori or orange flower-essence as supposedly an cornerstone spice/herb used in the holiday easter pies?  Have you seen that in your research as well?

Brian,

No, I did not spot the millifori or other like ingredient in my searches. It may have been there but since I was looking for something more prosaic, I may have missed it entirely. Also, on matters like these, I tend to put on a business hat and think about what makes sense from a business standpoint, especially for a company that is growing and expanding into other areas, like Florida, and where common business practices are imposed upon all of the locations. That's why I wonder whether it makes sense to have multiple doughs. Multiple size dough balls are often a necessity, because of different pizza sizes, but multiple formulations usually can be avoided. As you may know, many Chicago-area pizzerias use the same dough for their deep-dish as for their thin crust pizzas. Having too many different doughs just complicates matters. 

Peter

[Za guy]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies.  Well I really like this idea about printing off a copy of a dough calculation tool when I am doing my pie experiments.  But there sure seems to be some set-up work required to get the knack of using baker's percentages.  If it helps make things repeatable, I do see the benefit.  I also like the fact that it helps with scaling, and it also looks like a handy way to make a journal with dates and notes as one makes the pie journey.  But I am anxious about getting a correct starting point.  I don't want my next two pies (I have two new 14" pans now) to be kind of bad like my 1st attempt was.  If that happens, my wife may make me abandon my new hobby as fast as I started it!  Right now I am filling in this form, and am already stuck on what numbers to use for % hydration and also thickness factor.  Then if I look below, I in fact realize I have no idea what to put in those blanks.  Perhaps this tool is for more advanced pizza makers than this noob right now?

I'll look at the post in the "click here" link that describes how to use it before I ask too many questions about it.  But I'm getting analysis paralysis already just looking at it.At first blush, it seems like one would need to have a decent food scale to actually figure out the weights and percentage weights of a given recipe, have a decent recipe to start with, then weigh the actual amounts in your starting recipe so you can plug the values into the tool  (ie, know the weight of quantities like X Tablespoons of Olive Oil, 1/2 cup of water, etc, and this would all be in order to start making well documented adjustments in the recipe as one moves on to later generations of pies.  

Oh heck, I have no clue.  Are there any examples already filled out for a 14" Stuffed Spinach Pizza?  My immediate desire is to make two 14" pies.  I was happy with the Spinach filling last time, but for two larger pies, would probably need to make about three times as much as I did (need about 9 bunches of fresh Spinach, before cleaning and wilting it, etc. on the cooktop.  I probably need to make about 4 times as much dough as I made last time, since that recipe was for one pie in a 10" pan.  I made the dough using a sort of hybrid of the two formulations quoted in this thread and attributed to Buzz:

"Buzz #1":

1.5 cups KA AP
6 Tablespoons water
9 teaspoons canola oil
.80 teaspoons yeast
.40 teaspoons Kosher salt
.40 teaspoons sugar

"Buzz #2":

1.5 cups AP (I used Gold Medal)
8 TBS (.50 cup water)
3.5 TBS canola oil
1 tsp yeast
.75 tsp Kosher salt
.75 tsp. sugar

For my filling, I think I used the Stuffed Spinach recipe on this site (and it was GOOD!), plus added some sausage:  
(web browse to here):  pizzamaking.com/stuffed.php

I could start with something like that only first multiply it up.  I'd rather have a surplus of dough when I go to build these things than a deficit.  If there are more tips on how to use the dough calculation too using either one of these recipes as a starting point, I think I'd love to hear them too.  Other than that, thanks all.  I'll let you know what happens next!  (and if it's a decent pie, will try to post some pics).

Aside from that, thanks also for the answer about the tomato sauce (and also about maybe using a little butter).  Yep, I see from the video that the sauce went on right after they threw on the upper crust and poked the steam vent holes in it.  Also for the reminder to use the bottom rack in the oven.  I have seen that suggestion almost as much as I have seen the 6-in-1 brand tomatoes recommended, so I'll do it.  

ok - g'night ch'all,
Jim      

Hey Jim,  just a couple of thoughts while you're awaiting some response from others.  Suggest you learn how to use the dough calculation tools real well.  They are very easy once you learn how and incredibly helpful to track what you're doing so you can improve on the next pizza you make.  You can adjust the size of the pizza and thereafter get the amount of each ingredient needed for each size.  After getting the formulation from the tool (its summarized on the bottom), I print it out and date it with any special comments or thoughts about it and keep it in the file for referring to the next time that I make that style pizza.

Regarding butter or shortening, I've made some great pizzas without any at all.  I've recently experimented with just a slight (I call it a "dab") of softened butter and I like those, but I don't think I'd like it with a lot of butter.  I've also tried some with a lot of Crisco and while they were pretty good, I like those with oil better.  My take from recently having a Giordano's pizza is that they did not contain butter, margarine, shortening, or at least not in any significant way that I could tell.

I know that Giordano's does not baked their stuffed pies first without tomato sauce, at least not at their restaurants.  They baked it from the onset with the sauce on (some of their customers, including me, have complained sometimes when they don't put enough on and the top becomes all dried up).  You may want to experiment with that on a smaller size pizza.  I assume you cooked the pizza at home on the bottom rack at around 450 degree F, which I think is the best, but you may want to experiment with that in your oven going 25 degrees either way, up or down.  The stuffed pizzas, especially a 14" large size, takes from 30 to 45 minutes.  Pizzas baked on a higher rack too often get that scorched look that you described, but if it is occurring on the bottom rack, Buzz' good suggestion was to put a sheet of aluminum foil loosely on the top for the first 15 or 20 minutes of baking.

I will let others talk about and hopefully give you some suggestions about the formulation for the crust, which is about the most important thing.  Good luck and have fun learning how to do it better.
--BTB

Ed--Also don't over-mix or over-knead the dough.  I think that is very important to avoid the "bready" dough that often results from kneading it too long.

[pkasten]

Before I go back to the drawing board and figure out the right amounts needed to make two 14" pies, I asked my wife how she makes flakier pie crusts (she can bake pretty well).  Her answer was clear - butter.  When pressed, she also said shortening works too.  People used to use lard for pastry, right?  There must be something about fat in solid form that beats the healthier liquid vegetable oils for that.  But butter for sure.  She said it's important how you fold in the butter - she makes pie dough with a food processer and folds in the butter so it still has some discrete blobs in the dough that then spreads locally during cooking.  

Yeah.. butter.  Shortening does work too, but all that partially hydrogenated junk isn't that good for you.  Personally, I've cut foods made from that kind of stuff out of my diet so completely that I don't really worry about having something like that a few times a year.  Lard, while we all know it's unhealthy, is certainly better for you than something created by a chemical process in a factory, richer in flavor, and simply performs better in a crust than its synthetic substitutes. 

I've posted previously on this topic (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4377.0.html), which I thought crust-wise was a better example of what Giordano's represents than the stuff they sell. 

I enjoy their pizza, but like any chain that wants to make a buck selling pizza, they have to keep their prices down, and they do so by introducing stuff like "vegetable oil" in whatever form they're using it to their dough.  I'd be willing to bet that when it started out as a family-run, single-shop business, they used higher quality ingredients.  As they grew, they looked at ways to gradually change their product (to make more money) that the customer would not perceive... gradually scaling back on more expensive ingredients in favor of modern, cheap substitutes.

I decided that while my crust was pretty already pretty rich in that case, cutting out the vegetable oil entirely, in favor of butter, shortening/lard, while keeping the olive oil the same, will produce the ultimate flaky crust... far better than anything Giordano's can afford to sell you without jacking the prices quite a bit.

What is really important in a flaky crust is saturated vs. unsaturated fat.  Saturated fats are solid at room temperature, while unsaturated fats are not.  To create those flakes, you have to cut the flour into the fat, just as your wife said, to the point where most of the blobs are about pea sized.  To keep the fat from breaking down too fast or melting with the friction of the mixing process, it is best to use cold fat (if butter, diced and almost frozen would be best) and cold water.  I like to measure out my water first, then throw it in the freezer for a while, as I weigh out the other ingredients and get things going.   

I suppose that my main message is that you can use the information gleaned from this forum, along with a fair amount of experimentation, to make a pizza that captures all of the things you love about a particular pizzeria's product in something that is much better in the end.

Paul

[Pete-zza]

Jim,

I would be happy to help you out with the use of the deep-dish tool but unfortunately I will be out of town for about a week.

You are correct that you need baker's percents to use the deep-dish tool, along with either a desired dough weight or a thickness factor. There are several deep-dish dough recipes on the forum that are in baker's percent format and also have an indicated thickness factor (most tend to be in the 0.12-0.135 range). Unfortunately, buzz's recipes are not in that format. buzz uses only volume measurements and they would have to be converted to baker's percent format to use in the deep-dish tool. Because different people measure out flour by volume in different ways, the major obstacle in doing a conversion is to determine how much the flour measured out by volume weighs. This can vary from one person to another depending on the method used to measure out the flour by volume. To do a proper conversion, one would have to try the recipe, maybe even several times, and weigh the flour, water and oil each time (the rest of the ingredients can be kept in volume measurements), and from all the tests pick the values that worked the best. I once tried doing such a conversion with buzz's recipes (and reported on my results in the Chicago section, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1585.msg14462.html#msg14462) but I wasn't able to make enough pies to produce results that I thought were close enough to buzz's results. Part of the exercise in this thread is to go through a similar analysis with the Giordano's dough but using information received from Giordano's plus our own collateral research. We think we know the ingredients but we don't know the percents of ingredients used. If we are able to get in the ballpark, we might be able to get reasonably close by making a bunch of test pies.

As noted above, there are several deep-dish dough recipes on the forum that are recited in baker's percent format, along with thickness factor values. Loowaters has some excellent recipes (one of his early efforts is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4070.0.html, but later modified) and foodblogger has one for the Gino's East clone (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2620.msg22678.html#msg22678 and also a version by loowaters at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg42756.html#msg42756). DKM also has a few, including one in the recipe section of the forum (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dkm_chicago.php). And there are others scattered throughout the Chicago style section of the forum. Wherever possible, I have tried to convert deep-dish dough recipes to baker's percent format as I came upon them while assisting other members so that the recipes could be used with the deep-dish tool. Maybe some of those members can cite their favorite recipes in the baker's percent format for you to try. You might also do a forum search for "stuffed" pizzas. There are only a few, I believe.

You are correct that a scale is an important companion to the deep-dish tool. But its value is mainly in weighing the the flour and water (and the oil if used in large amount). Volume measurements can be used for the remaining ingredients.

Peter

[goosen1]

Jim,

I was wondering what type of pan that you are using for your pizza? You said in your last post that you are using a 14" pan. Are your sides of your pan straight or sloped? As for which recipe are you going to go with?? I was tinkering with the recipe Buzz #2, In one of buzz's, He had said that he wanted to increase the dough by about 1/3 so it can fit his pan. I was guessing that he might have a 14" pan.

Goose

[Za guy]

Thanks for the excellent reply, Pete!  The pies on the pages you linked indeed look fantastic.  And the assistance with the baker's percentages is also much appreciated.  It was clear right away that a tool like that would be very useful to use for experimentation and then for repeatability of results.  But I knew I wasn't at the starting point yet without more info.  I see the value in starting out properly, else my initial efforts will probably be wasted, even if edible.  So I'll look through all this info more carefully, and probably just tide over my hunger pangs some other way for a while.  This "Perfection in Pizza Pursuit" is clearly a hobby, no a CALLING!  Patience is advised, right?

Thanks again for the great starting point.  What a cool forum I found here!  I already turned on a buddy of mine to these pages, and while a great cook, he's more a NY-style afficianado.  Maybe I can convert him to the home town pies!  Geez, look at me, I'm already obsessed with this.  That's typical...

thx,
Jim

[Za guy]

Hey Goose,

Well my first pie was made using my wife's fancy all-metal 12" Kitchenaid straight-sided Frying Pan.  It is pretty deep, maybe 3" or even 3 1/2", so I only pulled the dough about halfway up the sides on the pan.  It stuck to the sides some, but I was able to get it out of the pan largely intact.  That part of the experiment worked ok.  I ran out of dough though, so had to forgoe the upper crust and it was no longer going to be the stuffed Pizza I set out to make.  No biggy.  I coated the bottom and sides with some butter and then smeared on some EV Olive Oil to boot.  Worked ok.  She later advised first applying some some PAM before the other fats.  Said it works even better come cleaning-up-time.     

But before I did that, I went out shopping for pans and couldn't find any at JCPenny's nor Macy's online, my two best guesses where to get a pan around here in a hurry.  When that didn't work, I Googled "Deep Dish Pans" and found these 14.5" Chicago Metallic pans at Amazon.  They just got delivered, after my first pie was made.  They are said to be made of steel and have a super-dooper lifetime non-stick surface.  These pans have sloping sides (which does not quite remind me of what I remember about Gino's East). I haven'e used them yet.  I hope they're decent ones - they sure cost enough!

Browse to here to see 'em (I can't paste in the whole link with the www stuff, etc, as I am still a dangerous newbie loose on the forum  ;-) :

amazon.com/Chicago-Metallic-Professional-Deep-Pizza/dp/B0000VLGYI

As for which recipe I'm gonna fool with next, I think I'm going to review more closely the info Pete just posted and see if I can start properly using the dough tool and baker's percentages and everything.  I may have to buy a decent food scale somewhere though.  I'm not expecting instant perfection, but instead expect to have to work at this a while to be able to get some really good pies as well as decent pie-making skills.  I believe my patience will be rewarded, I mean just look at the pics of these pies folks here are making.  The links Pete just posted have some nice ones, and I also found another good looking pie on a thread here named:  "Topic: Possibly my prettiest...with pics!".  That person (loowaters?) seems to have perfected the pie style at a famous Chi place I'd never been to called Malnati's.  Killer looking pies in that thread!

Back to the topic of pans and dough amounts in Buzz #1 or #2 recipes I pasted in:   1+1/2 cups of flour sure seems to make a small dough ball.  I have four eaters here, so I'd definitely like a bigger pie.  Shoot, I'll admit it - I'd want a bigger pie even if my wife and kids left me!  Maybe even bigger in that case (I'd probably be depressed and want some comfort food).  I did realize that I can't fit two 14" pans on my lowest rack of the oven at the same time.  Maybe that's why so many seem to use 10" pans.  But after buying two 14" ers, I lucked out and realized that I have double ovens.  I'm back in the two-at-a-time pie business!

Sorry to ramble on.  Wow, I have this incredible urge to go to the kitchen and make something with my new toys(and tomatoes)!

good luck,
Jim

Jim,

I was wondering what type of pan that you are using for your pizza? You said in your last post that you are using a 14" pan. Are your sides of your pan straight or sloped? As for which recipe are you going to go with?? I was tinkering with the recipe Buzz #2, In one of buzz's, He had said that he wanted to increase the dough by about 1/3 so it can fit his pan. I was guessing that he might have a 14" pan.

Goose

[Za guy]

Wow, those pics also look fantastic.  Now I don't know where to start again.  Nice pie though, and good info on achieving flakey crusts using solid fats.  thanks!

Jim

Yeah.. butter.  Shortening does work too, but all that partially hydrogenated junk isn't that good for you.  Personally, I've cut foods made from that kind of stuff out of my diet so completely that I don't really worry about having something like that a few times a year.  Lard, while we all know it's unhealthy, is certainly better for you than something created by a chemical process in a factory, richer in flavor, and simply performs better in a crust than its synthetic substitutes. 

I've posted previously on this topic (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4377.0.html), which I thought crust-wise was a better example of what Giordano's represents than the stuff they sell. 

I enjoy their pizza, but like any chain that wants to make a buck selling pizza, they have to keep their prices down, and they do so by introducing stuff like "vegetable oil" in whatever form they're using it to their dough.  I'd be willing to bet that when it started out as a family-run, single-shop business, they used higher quality ingredients.  As they grew, they looked at ways to gradually change their product (to make more money) that the customer would not perceive... gradually scaling back on more expensive ingredients in favor of modern, cheap substitutes.

I decided that while my crust was pretty already pretty rich in that case, cutting out the vegetable oil entirely, in favor of butter, shortening/lard, while keeping the olive oil the same, will produce the ultimate flaky crust... far better than anything Giordano's can afford to sell you without jacking the prices quite a bit.

What is really important in a flaky crust is saturated vs. unsaturated fat.  Saturated fats are solid at room temperature, while unsaturated fats are not.  To create those flakes, you have to cut the flour into the fat, just as your wife said, to the point where most of the blobs are about pea sized.  To keep the fat from breaking down too fast or melting with the friction of the mixing process, it is best to use cold fat (if butter, diced and almost frozen would be best) and cold water.  I like to measure out my water first, then throw it in the freezer for a while, as I weigh out the other ingredients and get things going.   

I suppose that my main message is that you can use the information gleaned from this forum, along with a fair amount of experimentation, to make a pizza that captures all of the things you love about a particular pizzeria's product in something that is much better in the end.

Paul

[goosen1]

Jim,

Thanks for the reply! You'll be snagged in the line with the pizza making like all of us here. You will find just about every kind of pizza in the abyss of posts in this forum. Myself, I'm into the Chicago style pizzas. Even that I have just moved out of the Chicago land area, It is hard to find a pizza place that I enjoy. Thanks to this forum, I get to enjoy the taste that I grew up with. So good luck on your creations and we all hope to see your accomplishments.
 
Goose

[BTB]

Za guy, good to hear that you are developing your skills at pizzamaking.  It will be contagious, believe me.  Keep going and you'll be a Master Chef at Pizzamaking at your home in no time.  I've just been at it for about a year now, and while I'm not at the level of Pete-zza, DKM, Loowaters, Buzz or many, many others, I'm getting a lot of raves and accolades about my deep dish and thin crust pizzas from friends, relatives and neighbors.  And I've surprised myself many times and said (to myself) . . . boy, that was really good pizza!  And I've tried pizzas all over, from coast to coast.
 
Some thoughts and comments:  Spend a little time going over those great dough calculation tools.  You will find them incredibly helpful.  Given as I have a hard time remembering what I did the last time that I made a particular type of pizza, I've found it useful to print out a particular formulation that I've used, date it and write comments on the sheet about pluses and minuses and things to add, subtract, revise, modify or try next time.  It would be nice if there were a course of sorts on the use of the pizza dough calculating tools as I know it can look a little frightening at first.  It really is super simple, though.  I can work out a pizza formulation to try out in under 2 or 3 minutes, or even quicker.  It's just practice.
 
For some, I understand that they have a little difficulty just finding the dough calculation tools on the website.  When you first get onto the Pizzamaking.com site, don't first click on the "Enter Pizza Forum" button, because you may have a hard time getting back into them.  Go to the left side of that first screen and note the many other buttons and click on "Dough Tools."  I was not that bright in the beginning and couldn't understand what others were talking about as I couldn't find the tools at first.  Maybe others have a better suggestion on getting to the tools, especially after you've entered the forums first.
 
Regarding pans:  I know that 14" deep dish is commonly mentioned as the pan of choice and that you have 2 now, but my largest deep dish is a 12".  I also have a 10" and two 9" deep dish pans.  When I once had a 14" size pan, I found too often that my "customers" each wanted something different on their pizzas (which is very difficult to identify after baking), so I found it more useful to make a variety of pizzas using smaller sized pans.  (It also gave me the opportunity to experiment with doing something slightly different with the dough formulations of each pizza to learn what was best.)  But if everyone in your family likes the same ingredients on the pizza, the larger size 14" makes more sense.  I cannot see the usefulness of a size larger than 14", but I know others do.  My 9" pans get the most use of all.

My pans are all straight-sided deep dish pans as that is what I'm use to and prefer, but in the end, the tapered or sloped ones may be just as good.  But because I am an old-time, deep dish pizza enthusiast, I guess the straight-sided type is just a stubborn tradition for me.  Darker coated ones are best.  Shiny ones are not good.  Chicago Metallic, Professional pans are usually available at most Bed Bath & Beyond (along with the commonly available 20% off coupon) or their sister competitor, Linens & Things (they honor anyones coupons).  I have several of them and they are excellent.  Pizzatools.com is excellent also.  You can usually order today and get it a week or so later (just by regular delivery).  And others recommendations are great also.

Regarding use of scale, which is very useful to the whole effort,  I bought my Salter electronic scale (model 1038) at Linens & Things (using the 20% off BB&B coupon) and it has been great.  Just the right size for the average pizzamaking project.  You'll learn quickly how to use the "tare" feature to zero out or take the weight of the container or bowl you're using out of the calculation.  There are literally hundreds of types.  Just avoid those that measure weights in "eights" rather than "tenths", and avoid the many that only measure to the nearest "two-tenths," rather that just one-tenth.  Those never made any sense to me, but it's hard just looking at the box to determine which scale does what.  Others, I'm sure, can also have some other great suggestions for you on scales.
 
My last thought is on use of a digital camera.  Everyone knows a picture is "worth a thousand words."  And the digital camera revolution has made it easier and cheap to take and share pictures with others over the internet.  And the Pizzamaking.com website is just about the easiest of all websites to share and put pictures into your posting.  It is so helpful and much more meaningful to the reader or viewer to see what you're doing or reporting on when you're able to view a picture or photo of what you are referring to and to actually see your pizzamaking results.  Just a goal for the future, I guess.  In the meantime, don't let that discourage you from reporting on your trials, tribulations and successes.                                                     --BTB
 

[sourdough girl]

BTB and Za Guy,
If you are in the forums and want to get to the tools, just click on "Pizza Making" at the upper left hand corner of every page.  It will take you directly to the homepage and the links you want.

~sd

[Za guy]

BTB,

Thanks for the words of encouragement.  And also the good info on the food scale.  The dough tools seem like a great idea for a bunch of reasons, and I'm going to try to figure out how to work with them.  In the meantime though, I decided I'm going to take Buzz's last Giordano's recipe tweak, using volume measurements and give it a go.  Otherwise the sausage and shrooms I bought the other day will go bad! 

In my first pie attempt, I used bulk breakfast sausage.  Oops!  Live and learn.  Then I realized I didn't even have a pan, then I realized the recipe was for a 10" (wifey's frying pan was 12"), so ran out of dough.  Then I buried a bunch of sausage but overloaded the top with parmesan, and had to choose "pink sausage" or "scorched parmesan" with my final cooking time   

But as I have been reading this amazing forum, I now have some good 14'" dark Chicago Mettalic pans, a bunch of cans of "6-in-1" crushed tomatoes, and today's find was the KA AP Flour at Trader Joe's (another thread in this site mentioned they started carrying it, which saves me from internet ordering and those nasty shipping charges (which would double the price of the flour (which just can't be right)).

In summary, tommorow is pizza night!   

Wish me better luck this time!   

thanks again,

'za guy (from Chi)

[mmarston]

Regarding the Easter pie, "Pastiera" is one type made by my mother in law from Naples that requires orange water. It's delicious but not remotely like pizza.

Michael

[Brian200001]

where can one purchase orange water or orange flower-esswncw?

[Bryan S]

where can one purchase orange water or orange flower-esswncw?

Here you go. http://www.amazon.com/Blessac-Orange-Flower-Water/dp/B0002YG0W6

[mmarston]

From King Arthur also

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/detail.jsp?select=C78&byCategory=C1004&id=1227

[Brian200001]

Excellent Thank You.

I'm still convinced that the missing carry-over "spices" from the traditional holiday easter pie/cake are either orange or lemon essence and some vanilla.  Of course these flavors do not jump out, but its probably a combination of these in small quantities. 

The weekend is coming and that's my pizza experimentation time.  I'll post pics.
I can't get buy the orange water in time, so I'll make do and add some freshly grated orange peel zest.