My Giordano's Style Pizza's (with pics)

[Chicago Rules!!!]

Wow i cant believe my thread has skyrocketed into being very popular. I just made those pizza's with a lot of passion, and it paid off, you can tell by looking at the pictures.

thanks everyone

[buzz]

I talked with a guy who used to own a Giordano's franchise. He said that (in his day--I seem to remember that he said that now the dough is made in PA) the dough is made at a commissary in Chicago, where it sits out in the open (hence the long rise), and is literally oozing with oil. You can't get a flaky, pie-like crust without lots of fat! He also said that Escalaon (6-in-1) makes the sauce for Giordano's, and that Stella makes a speical blend of cheese for them as well (cleary, there is whole milk mozzarella in the mix--many pizzerias use a part-skim/whole milk mix).

The pans are greased (not very liberally) with butter, and the crust they use is the same for all their pizzas--deep dish and thin crust.

I have wondered about the spice issue in the dough before--in my estimation, they put red pepper flakes in the dough mix.

[Za guy]

You started a great thread.  I guess your Pizza passion is contagious! 

So, from me after last night's Pizza night - I have some pics and some observations from a Stuffed Pie newbie.  I figure that there's learning to be gained for mistakes as well as the sucesses I've read about here.  Don't get me wrong, while my Pizza #2 wasn't without a problem or two, it was pretty darn good!  And I learned yet more how to improve it next time. 

I suppose as a preface to the pics, I should mention that my pizza was sort of my own invention, something I just wanted to do, not exactly what they serve at Gino's or Giordano's.  Before trying to make my own lately, I had been ordering mail order deep dish pies from Gino's for a while.  I'd buy two types - the sausage and cheese pie and the spinach pie.  While I liked them pretty well, I had two issues.  The crust was 100% cornmeal it seemed, sort of like a preformed bowl.  Too thick, too hard, not good, we all felt.  Not what I remember from Gino's East when we'd go there in 1970's (yes, it's been a while since I moved!).  Besides the mail order crust, I also really wanted to know what would happen if I "merged"  the pies into a spinach/sausage combo.  They didn't offer it by mail order, thus my efforts last night at a double-decker, stuffed spinach (below) and sausage pizza up above.  I was partially inspired by loowaters' pie pictures, where he floats the sausage on top of the crust to crisp it up.  But I messed up and buried the sausage becuse the 6-in-1 sauce looked so great I put on more after the sausage layer was loaded.  That was one of probably four mistakes I made.  It made my sausage and tomato sauce layer up top a bit soupy (but still good).

My other mistakes were:

1)  I like spinach, so put on a TON of filling (used DKM's recipe for that).  I used 5 bunches of fresh spinach in the filling.  Thus I think I should have increased the bake time by 10 minutes.  I cooked it for 15 minutes w/o sauce on the bottom rack at 450 in order to make sure the top layer didn't come out doughy, then another 28 minutes with the sausage/sauce layer.  It wasn't enough and the cheese didn't get hot and melty enough.  I suppose if I knew what internal temp to shoot for I could have probed it with a thermometer;

2)  For the sauce, I accidentally read TBSP in one of Buzz's notes when he wrote TSP.  So, I put double the amount of sugar in the sauce, and it was a bit sweet for my tastes.  I got thrown off by the capital letters.  That one sure won't happen again;

3)  I tried to pull the crust up to the rim of the pan all along the rim once I pinched the top layer of dough on, but didn't do a good enough job on that.  The result was a couple of low spots where the copious sauce ran over the crust.  That caused a soggy spot as well as some brown burnt tasting areas (you can see a couple of dark streaks on the side crust, a problem area).  It was an isolated problem, and not a huge deal, especially when I figured out to bake some leftover pie for breakfast.  Adding some more baketime on the leftovers makse the pie taste WAY better than it did for dinner last night.  Also, Buzz's crust formulation REALLY kicked in when I did this.  It was crunchy, crispy, flakey, everythingy this time!  Just great!  I guess I'll just treat this pie as a partially baked mail order pie.  Rebaking it for 15' worked great!

Naturally, my next pies will have some changes:

First of all, I wonder if these 6-in-1's even need ANY sugar for the sauce.  I may just skip the sugar altogether in the sauce next time.  They are the sweetest reddest tomatoe product I have ever seen.  Cool stuff! 

Secondly, I will not bury the sausage with sauce again.  I want that part crispy (I did brown them before adding to the pizza, just to dump any grease (it was pretty lean good quality stuff and there really wasn't any.  I'll definitely buy the same sausage next time (form Lunardi's Market in LG, CA);

Lastly, I am buying two 10" pans.  I get it now.  Turns out my kids just ate the upper deck off the pie and left the stuffed part bare of sauce and sausage, so I had to eat their leftovers.  I was stuffed ever more than the pizza!  Next time I'll make them a pepperoni, sausage, bell pepper and onion combo in one pan, and maybe my double decker over-stuffed spinach pie for wifey and me in the other pan.

OK, I'll try to post some pics now.  Let's see if that part works.  Rats, I tried, and it doesn't work.  I took some good pics too.  But the max file size I can attach is 512KB, and my camera must have two or three megapixels, so the .jpg photo files I saved are way too big.  Any tips on how I can upload my pics?
 
Jim

Wow i cant believe my thread has skyrocketed into being very popular. I just made those pizza's with a lot of passion, and it paid off, you can tell by looking at the pictures.

thanks everyone

[Za guy]

Here's all my pics (hopefully!).  Follow the link below  I resampled them with a handy photo viewer program I have to get them down to manageable resolutions (1k x 768 pixels): 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=myimages;u=7157

And one more comment.  I was interested in the crust flakiness topic.  Someone named pksten (or close to that) seemed to do a lot of work experimenting in that regard - just see his over-the-top Christmas pie.  It has over 1k calories per slice!  That would kill me, but I get his concept.  Anyway, there seems to be some disagreement about whether to add oil into the dry dough ingredients before the water.  I decided to add 1 tsp EVOO into the dry stuff before adding the water and 5 tsp Canola Oil to mix the dough.  I figured maybe that would create some semi-dense local oil blobs that could add some flakiness.  Not sure if it did or didn't, but I do know I liked the crust a lot.  I also oiled the heck out of the mixing bowl before I let it rise.  I also oiled the pan real well before baking.  The dough was not lacking for oil, that's for sure!

Jim

[BTB]

Jim, great job.  I'm not into the spinach like you (and Popeye), but those pictures looked really good.  If I didn't know better, one might think you got that pizza from a specialty restaurant that clones Chicago style pizza out on the west coast.  Love those dark spots, though.  Don't be so quick to do it without them.  Super job on the pizzas and the pictures.  I like your balance of color in the photos with the green leaf and the red wine (Cabernet Sauvignon no less).  Believe me, it will just get better and better as you experience and learn more (as well as a waist line increase!).

When I can locate the thread or message on how to add pictures in the message, I'll forward it onto you.  Or others may chime in on that.  But your way of getting the pictures onto the site was just as good.  You need to have a photo program and use the size reduction feature to put pictures into the posting.  I use Microsoft's Image Maker and just click on "resize image."  And then you have to "save as" and do other things, but I now can do it all in seconds.  A basic program like it is often included with computer packages, so check your often unused or unknown list of computer programs.  It may be there already.  I'm now also getting to learn how to use Photoshop Elements 6, which I understand is one of the premier photo programs. 

Regarding the 6 in 1 sauce:  it is definitely the best.  I haven't found anything close to it.  Yes, it is wonderfully sweet as is, but my family liked the earlier experiment I made with putting a dash of honey in.  I was reluctant, but now I like it so much that I always add it.  But that reflects individual tastes.  Also, I always drain the 6 in 1 sauce when used on a deep dish pizza (but not on a thin crust where a thinner sauce is usually preferred).  Some cans of it are thick enough, but most need the straining.  When you get a watery pizza, you'll know that the sauce should have been strained. 

Also, I love whole milk fresh mozzarella cheese, but I've come to be cautious of its use on pizzas.  I've come to prefer part-skim cheese for my pizza making, sometimes with a mixture of whole or fresh.  But too often, the use of whole milk mozzarella, especially the great ones made from local Italian deli's, contribute also to a much-too-much watery pizza.  That only comes with trial and error, but be careful on overuse of whole milk cheese.

In the Buzz formulation, I suggest you reduce the amount of oil somewhat next time, and especially try Buzz' reserving the half cup or so of flour and adding it about a half hour later.  That little twist seems to do a lot, I think.  My first use of his formulation was a little too oily, so I reduced it a little and it seemed to work better in order to firm up the dough on the sides of the deep dish pan.  Otherwise, it just slides down too much.  Also, just try with one pizza to pre-bake the dough by itself in the pan for 4 or 5 minutes.  That technique really was well received by my tasters during the holidays on one pizza I did.  I suggest that you do not oil the heck out of the mixing bowl before allowing it to rise, nor oil the pan too much.  You'll likely get too much "slipping and sliding."  I'm split between sometimes doing my deep dish with regular (not EV) olive oil in the pan (on the bottom only, never the sides) versus margarine, shortening or butter.  Most of the time I've used Crisco and am usually very satisfied with that.

Looking forward to hearing about your future pizza adventures.         --BTB

[Za guy]

Hi BTB,

Thanks for the kind words.  I just read the topic about posting pics, so next time I'll be able to attach them to my posts.  Great! 

And I like the idea of usiing a litle honey instead of sugar in the sauce.  I am going to try that next time. 

Also thanks for the comments on whole milk Mozz.  I accidentally bought some of that, so had to use it.  I put regular part-skim Mozz on the bottom dough, and the whole milk Mozz just under the upper crust.  Maybe that extra moisture is why in spite of baking it w/o sauce for 15', the upper crust layer still seemed sort of doughy.  Great tip.  I will avoid whole milk Mozz for now on.  That is one aspect of my Pizza #2 that I liked less than Pizza #1- especially if it added to the moisture.

Thanks also for the tip on the oil and flour, and maybe why I had the slippin and sliding.  I did have some extra flour I rubbed onto the dough ball before rolling it out, but maybe not enough.

OK, thanks again.  I have a ton of leftover pizza to bake some more.  So, gotta run!

Jim 

[buzz]

The ratio of 3 TBS (not tsp) oil/1 cup flour seems to work best for a Giordano's style, although you certainly can reduce it a little if you'd like. I would pre-cook the spinach to get rid of a lot of water that spinach contains. You can easily overdo the sauce--a bit less is better.

As for baking, what works best for me is a 20-minute bake on the lowest rack with the top covered in foil, followed by a20-minute onnthe middle rack with the foil off. Watch it, though--your oven may differ so you could have a shorter time in the final baking period.

[Za guy]

Hi Chicago Rules,

I have a new question for you.  After all the pizza I have been eating, I am looking for a way to sort of lighten up on the Italian Sausage component.  And I saw an old pizza you made with a beef/sausage filling that seems to have potential.  I like meat on the pie, but don't the filling to be quite as rich.  So when I saw the pie of yours, I wondered how you made your filling and how did you like it?  And where did you get the idea of combining what looks like lean ground beef with saussage for pizza filling?

Thanks,
Za guy (from Chi!)

PS:  I will try to attach your pic below to remind you of the pie I am talking about.  Wish me luck with that! 

Wow i cant believe my thread has skyrocketed into being very popular. I just made those pizza's with a lot of passion, and it paid off, you can tell by looking at the pictures.

thanks everyone

[Za guy]

Thanks for the tips, Buzz.  I just realized today that I messed up your crust recipe again!  I had too many sheets of papers out when I was cooking (printouts from this forum), and when I went to double your latest formula for my 14" pan, I didn't double the oil amounts after all!  I must be dyslexic now.  So, I am STILL waiting to eat a properly made pizza.  Oh well, it wasn't bad eating for such a mistake.

I agree that I OD'ed on the 6-in-1 sauce.  I got overexcited when I saw the color of that stuff.  Amazing product.  I may strain it a little next time, just to compare results.  I did blanch the onions mushrooms as in Devin's recipe, so that got rid of a lot of moisture.  And I also strained the spinach after cooking it.  I think maybe it was the whole-milk Mozz and also the OD with the sauce that made mine a bit soupy.  But I will try try again.  i ordered some 9" pans to make two pies at a time for variety's sake.

thx again for the tip,
Za guy

The ratio of 3 TBS (not tsp) oil/1 cup flour seems to work best for a Giordano's style, although you certainly can reduce it a little if you'd like. I would pre-cook the spinach to get rid of a lot of water that spinach contains. You can easily overdo the sauce--a bit less is better.

As for baking, what works best for me is a 20-minute bake on the lowest rack with the top covered in foil, followed by a20-minute onnthe middle rack with the foil off. Watch it, though--your oven may differ so you could have a shorter time in the final baking period.

[Randy]

Hi Chicago Rules,

I have a new question for you.  After all the pizza I have been eating, I am looking for a way to sort of lighten up on the Italian Sausage component.

Thanks,
Za guy (from Chi!)

One thing we do to reduce the fat at least some is use pork, breakfast sausage like Jimmy Dean and fry and drain it before putting it on your pizza.

Randy

[widespreadpizza]

I apologize in advance,  but cannot hold back after the mention of jimmy dean.  please follow this link     

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4RNb3tt0LM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4RNb3tt0LM</a>

            turn your speakers up and press play. 

[goosen1]

I apologize in advance,  but cannot hold back after the mention of jimmy dean.  please follow this link     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4RNb3tt0LM            turn your speakers up and press play. 

That guy gets mad at the end... Potty mouth...

Goose

[buzz]

I've put too much sauce on in the past--it does ruin it!

[Anis]

Ooooohhh that pizza really looks good!

[goosen1]

I've put too much sauce on in the past--it does ruin it!

Your not kidding Buzz.. I found out the only way to add more sauce to a stuffed pizza is to strain the tomatoes straight out of the can for around 6 hours... If you are an extra sauce lover, You would need to put a little inside in between the layers also the top layer..

Goose

[DaveH]

My solution is to use turkey pepperoni and sausage. Can't really tell and the fat/calories are reduced.

[Za guy]

Hi all,

About the sauce - what about this idea:  Strain the 6-in-1's for a while, but retain the purged liquid.  Then take the excess liquid and simmer on the stove and reduce it until the water cooks out.  Then take that, what is it, "homemade puree" and fold it back in with the 6-in-1's before applying to the pie.  It just seems wasteful to let any of that delicious 6-in-1 stuff get away.  You can tell I like sauce!  And I love the 6-in-1's! 

I actually did that with the canned tomatoes (Centos) I crushed for test pie #1.  It seemed to work, and it was easy to tell when it was completely reduced.  the volume of the "puree" was probably half what it was before it was reduced.  Can you think of anything wrong with doing that?  Seems like it does get rid of a bunch of the water.

Jim

Your not kidding Buzz.. I found out the only way to add more sauce to a stuffed pizza is to strain the tomatoes straight out of the can for around 6 hours... If you are an extra sauce lover, You would need to put a little inside in between the layers also the top layer..

Goose

[Za guy]

That poor guy.  He just needs some of my pizza.  It would maintain the weight of three 200+ pounders easily! 

Za guy

I apologize in advance,  but cannot hold back after the mention of jimmy dean.  please follow this link     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4RNb3tt0LM            turn your speakers up and press play. 

[BTB]

Here's what I've done for my pizza sauce for the last couple of months and it's been well received by my pizza tasters.  I use 6 in 1 sauce but only drain for only an hour or so, but often push down the liquid through a strainer with simply a spoon.  A 6 hour drain seems a little too much, Goosen, but if that works for you, that's great.  Jim, I've seen that technique of reducing and using the reduced strained or purged liquid on Alton Brown's Good Eats show the other night regarding making tomato sauce.  Strange show, tho.  He didn't seem to spend much time on the sauce itself . . . a lot of time spent on knife sharpening for some reason, which I thought was peculiar for a show on tomato sauce.  And I didn't particularly like the results of his sauce making.  He is usually very good, but I didn't give that show high marks.  My wife uses the strained liquid for other purposes, so I'm not particularly moved to use the strained liquid for any pizza sauce purpose. 

To my strained 6 in 1 sauce, I add Penzey's pizza seasoning, minced roasted garlic (you get that in those little glass jars in the grocery store produce sections), a little sea salt, white pepper, ginger, onion powder (sometimes minced onions instead), and a dash of honey (from a squeezable container).  So far that has been the best for me, but I'm always open to learning about others' concoctions.  Penzey's pizza seasoning, BTW, lists salt, cracked and ground fennel seed, Turkish oregano leaf and powder, sugar, garlic, Telicherry black pepper, sweet basil, onion, crushed red pepper, and cayenne red pepper as ingredients in their mix.  And for some of my thin crust pizzas, I add fennel seeds or anise seeds (in small amounts cause it can be overwhelmingly powerful) and a little regular olive oil.   The amounts of each depends upon the number and size, as well as type, of pizzas.  One should be very cautious about "over-doing" any one item.

I like good Italian pork sausage on my pizzas and have "no comment" to offer about use of Jimmy Dean's breakfast sausage or turkey sausage.  If one likes it, they like it.           

[Za guy]

I just realized how dumb my question was about retaining that liquid.  To make some pizza bread, I just strained some leftover sauce and all that comes out is just water.  It's different from the puree that the whole Centos I used previously were canned in.  The water can just be discarded, no biggy.

Jim

Jim, I've seen that technique of reducing and using the reduced strained or purged liquid on Alton Brown's Good Eats show the other night regarding making tomato sauce.