Author Topic: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!  (Read 81140 times)

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Offline EAP0510

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2009, 06:07:10 PM »
8!!!!!!!!!!!! :o

Dang no wonder why mine felt like a brick after I ate it :-[

You must eat pizza for days one end making 8 at a pop.

I followed your recipe that you had posted when you first broke the whole wheat barrier.

Once I combined the milk and water into my flour the liquids disappeared on me. I could literally blow the flour out of my bowl after mixing for several minutes. It was that I began to add more water by the tablespoon until I reach a similar consistence of what I saw in your video.

Looks like my biggest mistake was:
1. Not having a set of digital scales
2. Not realizing that the recipe makes 8 ten inch pies

I'll try again once I finish eating my tasty bricks.


Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #126 on: December 05, 2009, 04:35:25 AM »
Here is a good quality inexpensive scale for about $25:
http://www.amazon.com/Escali-Primo-Digital-Multifunctional-Chrome/dp/B0007GAWRS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1235873085&sr=1-5

Makes a nice stocking stuffer.

    Villa Roma

Offline corkd

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #127 on: December 06, 2009, 11:09:04 AM »
Villa Roma, thanks for this thread-- trying this has been a blast... After many hours spent reading
& experimenting with caputo, KASL, preferments, & even modifying an oven to bake on the clean cycle, working with WWF is a refreshing change. 
The pics are only my 2nd attempt with your technique.. for the first try, I used 100% hydration & found I had to add flour 2/3 of the way through the 24 hr ferment to make the dough workable. the pies were fine, but this attempt was MUCH better.
I adhered to your 3 points:
high hydration; long ferment; high temp oven

What's great about this method is that it's essentially a version of the no-knead bread recipe, which I use often for bread baking.
 Here's what i did to get 2 dough balls:
KA wwf 300gr
H2O 256 gr
sugar 6gr
salt  6gr
EVOO 6gr
pinch of IDY (no measurement)
pinch of vitamin C (i opened a packet of emergen C)

I followed your method of "dump and stir", then gave a the dough a stir every few hours. This hydration (just over 85%) proved to
be perfect for being able to handle the dough from the start. I was able to pick the dough up & knead it a bit without alot of stickiness, & without adding more flour.
At 12 hrs room temp the dough had almost doubled in volume.
I punched down gently, divided into 2 balls, & put in sep containers.
By around 22 hrs, the dough had again almost doubled  in volume- I probably could have used even less yeast...
I used a small amount of regular flour on the bench, on the peel & stretched by hand. I was impressed by  the extensibility-- no tears, &
stretched to around 12" with no problem. I was able to dress the pies without rushing, & had no sticking issues.

I baked in a bare-bones RCA gas unit that we have in the basement-- with the fibrament stone on the oven floor & heat turned to broil I get over 650.... then used the broiler to finish the top.
 the total bake time was less than 5 mins.
The result was a crust that was very puffy and remarkably light. very cool!

the thing about WWF is of course the intense flavor-- but i think it will be much like getting used to whole wheat pasta when you first switch from regular... it just takes some time. I think with WWF you need to adjust the toppings to get more assertive flavors. For cheese I  used Feta, &  a blend of Sargento that has some asiago- plus some sausage & a black garlic that has an intense, smoky flavor, all of which stood up well to the intense flavor of the WWF.

clay

« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 11:11:31 AM by corkd »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #128 on: December 06, 2009, 11:59:20 AM »
Clay.....Congratulations, your pizza looks terrific. I found that the KA WW flour was very fine so I would use 50% GM WW flour to make the perfect WW crust. The GM flour is a medium grind and it's about half the cost of the KA. I'm out of the KA WW so now I just use straight GM WW.

Although I experimented briefly with the dump and stir (no knead) method to show that a mixer isn't needed to produce great WW pizza, I normally use a Kitchen Aid mixer with a spiral hook. I mix the dough up the day before and refer it for 24 hours. I cook the pizzas at about 650 degrees in my mini LBE for about just under 4 minutes.   

     Villa Roma


Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2009, 12:28:11 PM »
Here are two pizzas I made today. They are 100% whole grain and 90% hydration.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 12:54:38 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline Derzerb

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #130 on: December 30, 2009, 01:18:53 AM »
Will the Lehman Dough Calculator still work with 100% whole wheat?
Sorry if the question is a bit amateurish.By the way, Villaroma, awesome job trying to make the best food in the world into a healthy one also!  :pizza:

Online Pete-zza

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #131 on: December 30, 2009, 09:15:36 AM »
Will the Lehman Dough Calculator still work with 100% whole wheat?

Derzerb,

Yes. All of the dough calculating tools, including the Lehmann tool, are agnostic as to the type of flour. The tools are based on percents and any flour will work in the tools. I usually modify the output text to show the type of flour used but that is only for the sake of completeness.

Peter

Offline DOC Opa

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #132 on: January 11, 2010, 10:33:04 AM »
I've seen several recipes here as you have been experimenting with no knead, KA spiral hook, sourdough, vitamin C, etc.  Do you now have a standard WW pizza dough for high temperature wood ovens that has evolved that you could post? 

Mark

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #133 on: January 11, 2010, 12:47:05 PM »
I've seen several recipes here as you have been experimenting with no knead, KA spiral hook, sourdough, vitamin C, etc.  Do you now have a standard WW pizza dough for high temperature wood ovens that has evolved that you could post? 

Mark

What's up DOC? I don't have a really standard recipe as I like to experiment with different ingredients and I don't know if WW would do well in a WFO. If I had to pick a recipe I'd go with this one:

800gm GM WW flour
720 gm water (90%)
20 gm salt (2.5%)
16 gm lite olive oil (2%)
1/4 tsp dry instant yeast

Case in point, I used sweet potato and cider vinegar in this batch. It came out a little heavy but it was real easy to stretch.

    How sweet it is! Villa Roma


Offline DOC Opa

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #134 on: January 12, 2010, 11:13:51 AM »
I fired up the WFO a couple times before roof construction over the oven stopped me from firring it up until that was completed.  I used your earlier WW recipe and it cooked up great in the WFO.  The WW dough is delicate, you can't just pull it onto the peel like regular pizza dough at least that was the case for me the two times I made it.  They only took about 90 to 120 seconds to cook.  I've read that high temp cooking dough should not have oil or sugar in it as it tends to burn but you have oil in the dough and your pizzas look great.  I take it you do not find the addition of oil to be a problem at high temps.  The floor temperature, if interested, was 750 and 775 F with the ceiling covered with flames so the gun limit is only 1000 F.  I need to finish insulating the oven and make it look nice.  I plan on playing with the WW dough recipe you gave me and also try 100% spelt.  Thanks again,

DOC (Dutch Oven Cooking) Opa (Grandfather)

Offline hotsawce

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #135 on: April 14, 2010, 05:46:05 PM »
This thread hasn't been posted in for a while, but I've been contemplating trying some whole wheat or different grain flours for different flavors.

First and foremost, is the texture much different than normal flour? And what kind of grain flours have been used...whole wheat, spelt, multigrain...I'd like to experiment with some....and get some cool flavors but without changing texture much. Has anyone used different blends?

Finally, how does this lend itself to a preferment? I was thinking of doing a preferment with the wheat flour to get more flavor, and then cutting it in the final dough with a different flour....what hydration would you recommend for this sort of thing (blend and full WW)

Any opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Bronxgirl

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #136 on: April 22, 2010, 11:11:09 AM »
Can someone please tell me where to find Villa Roma's WW pizza recipe that doesn't use a starter?  It doesn't need to be 100%WW. Thnx!

Offline DOC Opa

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #137 on: April 22, 2010, 03:00:12 PM »
Hey Bronxgirl,

If you go back a few posts, the one with the photos of the pizza from January 11th, you will see Villa Roma post a pizza dough recipe.  Now you'll need to know the steps for mixing and proofing and that basic technique is in the first page I think of this forum.  You should go through all seven pages as there is some good info in those pages and a video as well.   FYI GM WW flour  is Gold Medal whole wheat flour.  After reading all of the pages of the forum, I tried GM WWF and like it very much.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 12:44:00 PM by DOC Opa »

Offline Bronxgirl

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #138 on: April 26, 2010, 11:00:59 AM »
Thanks!  I made Tom Lehmann's 30% WW and 70% bread flour pizza over the weekend (letting the WW hydrate for 60 mins before adding the bread flour) and it turned out amazing! I will keep experimenting w/ WW.  :D

Offline DOC Opa

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #139 on: August 02, 2010, 09:59:48 AM »
Any body out there???  Made whole grain wheat calzones in the WFO Saturday at around 650 to 700 that came out fantastic.  I love this peel.  You can just slide it under the pizza to pick it up and place it in the oven. 

Offline hotsawce

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #140 on: August 11, 2010, 01:18:50 PM »
what peel is that?

Offline DOC Opa

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #141 on: August 11, 2010, 01:36:40 PM »
http://tinyurl.com/288fvwq  Page two.  Here is a video.   http://tinyurl.com/2ads6eh  bought this one as well.  http://tinyurl.com/2c2ev8l  I saved so much building my own WFO I splurged on a couple tools.


Offline onemsmom

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #142 on: September 03, 2010, 10:44:43 PM »
I tried making pizza with KA WWW flour and KA regular WW flour. The WWW didn't seem to have enough gluten in it to make a good pizza crust. The regular KA WW on the other hand came out nice and light.



Forgive me if someone else has already asked this, because I haven't finished reading the whole thread, but are you sure you used White Whole Wheat Flour (made from the hard white wheat berry) and not the Whole Wheat Pastry Flour (made from the SOFT white wheat berry?).  The reason I ask is that whole wheat pastry flour has very little gluten.  It's wonderful for cookies/muffins, etc., but will not work in bread.  I think white whole wheat has the same gluten level as red - I use it 1/2 1/2 with red when I bake bread.  Let me know if you still remember (I just realized that post was from 2008!!)

Thanks very much,

Jenn
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 11:09:02 PM by onemsmom »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #143 on: September 05, 2010, 12:44:18 PM »
I tried making pizza with KA WWW flour and KA regular WW flour. The WWW didn't seem to have enough gluten in it to make a good pizza crust. The regular KA WW on the other hand came out nice and light.



Forgive me if someone else has already asked this, because I haven't finished reading the whole thread, but are you sure you used White Whole Wheat Flour (made from the hard white wheat berry) and not the Whole Wheat Pastry Flour (made from the SOFT white wheat berry?).  The reason I ask is that whole wheat pastry flour has very little gluten.  It's wonderful for cookies/muffins, etc., but will not work in bread.  I think white whole wheat has the same gluten level as red - I use it 1/2 1/2 with red when I bake bread.  Let me know if you still remember (I just realized that post was from 2008!!)

Thanks very much,

Jenn

Jenn...I used KA WWW flour and it is made from hard white wheat. It's possible I got a bad batch but KA is usually good quality. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/flours/white-whole-wheat-flour.html

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 10:34:47 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #144 on: September 08, 2010, 10:45:42 AM »

"You can't have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

My creative aspects with regard to pizza making seemed to have hit a wall lately.
There I was, comfortably numb listening to Pink Floyd when it hit me like a king sized psycho pudding cup! Why not put pudding in my WW dough? I swapped the oil and sugar in the dough for the pudding and got a good dose of dairy to boot. I used butterscotch pudding and the rest is history.

    Pudding, it's not just for desert anymore, Villa Roma
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 02:23:09 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline MikeN

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #145 on: September 09, 2010, 09:57:05 PM »

If I had to pick a recipe I'd go with this one:

800gm GM WW flour
720 gm water (90%)
20 gm salt (2.5%)
16 gm lite olive oil (2%)
1/4 tsp dry instant yeast


So would this be the one you'd recommend for a newbie wanted to do WW?  If so, what's the basic process steps?

Thanks!

-Mike
Mike N

Offline Ronzo

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #146 on: September 09, 2010, 10:41:07 PM »
If I had to pick a recipe I'd go with this one:

800gm GM WW flour
720 gm water (90%)
20 gm salt (2.5%)
16 gm lite olive oil (2%)
1/4 tsp dry instant yeast
Trying this now... just put it in the mixer. Made it with some Shiner Bock.
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline norma427

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #147 on: September 09, 2010, 11:03:21 PM »
"You can't have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

My creative aspects with regard to pizza making seemed to have hit a wall lately.
There I was, comfortably numb listening to Pink Floyd when it hit me like a king sized psycho pudding cup! Why not put pudding in my WW dough? I swapped the oil and sugar in the dough for the pudding and got a good dose of dairy to boot. I used butterscotch pudding and the rest is history.

    Pudding, it's not just for desert anymore, Villa Roma


Villa Roma,

Your pie with the butterscotch pudding looks great!  :)  That sure was a creative way of using pudding!  How did the crust taste?

Norma

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #148 on: September 10, 2010, 12:24:52 AM »
So would this be the one you'd recommend for a newbie wanted to do WW?  If so, what's the basic process steps?

Thanks!

-Mike


As  a newbie I would try regular white flour pizza and once you're comfortable with it start making pizza with increasing amounts of WW flour. That's how I eased into making WW pizza. If you've already mastered white flour pizza then you can try the above recipe but I would lower the hydration to 80-85% for the initial attempt.

     Villa Roma

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #149 on: September 10, 2010, 12:33:43 AM »

Villa Roma,

Your pie with the butterscotch pudding looks great!  :)  That sure was a creative way of using pudding!  How did the crust taste?

Norma


Thanks Norma! The BS crust tasted similar to my usual WW crust but was very light, soft, airy and handled extremely well. There was not even a hint of the pudding flavor. I'm going to try the BS pudding in a white flour recipe in the future. So far I've used the following ingredients in pizza:

Sweet potato
Regular potato
Applesauce
Coconut milk
Banana
Coffee
Juice

     Villa Roma


 

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