Villa, thanks for your help - I am getting closer. I think it takes one or two tries with your latest recipe just to get used to handling dough so wet. My third try, this weekend, went pretty well. I used your recipe, though instead of regular wheat flour, I went with a mix of 2/3 hard red spring berries and 1/2 hard white winter berries ( used a grinding mill). Came out pretty well, though I am thinking of adding a little more salt - I am used to a saltier crust. Also, I am not actually throwing, or even attempting to stretch the dough. I didn't use any bench flour when it came time to make the pie, I just started lifting it by one edge and let it stretch by its own weight. Still had a little shrink back when I got it on the peel, not sure what to do about that.