100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!

[dellavecchia]

Luke - Your dough was most likely overfermented, being at room temp for nearly 24 hours with the amount of yeast specified. I would try the recipe with the preferment as stated, and proof/bake the same day (mix PF night before, mix final dough in the morning, bake at night).

John

[Paparoni]

Hi John,

Unfortunately, I tried it that way the last time, with the same result. Maybe in both cases I've got too much yeast due to lack of precision measurements for amounts that small. Is super-stretchable dough a typical consequence of overfermenting?

Thanks,

Luke

[charbo]

Luke,

Unless your room was quite cool, the gluten was probably ruined by the long exposure to protease.  You can get away with a long room-temp fermentation using refined flour, but not with WW.

Are you saying that GM WW flour is sprouted?

cb

[Paparoni]

Thanks for the tip. My kitchen was between 60-70 degrees during fermenting (on the cool side overnight, and warm side during the day).

I wasn't using GM WW flour, but a sprouted WW flour from another company.

[charbo]

If you are using sprouted flour, I suggest you start a new thread.

[barryvabeach]

Villa,  thanks for your help -  I am getting closer.  I think it takes one or two tries with your latest recipe just to get used to handling dough so wet.  My third try, this weekend, went pretty well.  I used your recipe, though instead of regular wheat flour, I went with a mix of 2/3 hard red spring berries and 1/2 hard white winter berries ( used a grinding mill).  Came out pretty well, though I am thinking of adding a little more salt - I am used to a saltier crust.  Also, I am not actually throwing, or even attempting to stretch the dough.  I didn't use any bench flour when it came time to make the pie, I just started lifting it by one edge and let it stretch by its own weight.  Still had a little shrink back when I got it on the peel, not sure what to do about that.

[DannyG]

Villa, I'm getting ready to give your recipe a try but I'm a little concerned about my ability to handle such a wet dough. Have you done a video showing how you build your pies, from sheeting to sliding on the stone? I would really like to see how you do this.

[barryvabeach]

Danny,  I had some trouble the first few times, but I am getting better, so I can only say try and keep trying.  If you are used to normal stretching out of a pie - it is completely unlike that. For me at least, using Villa's latest recipe ( though I am using home milled wheat 50% red spring, 50% hard winter ) as you start to shape it in a circle, and start to lift one end, the rest of the pie falls away - so it only takes a few seconds to stretch it out - though I feel like I have no control of how it will come out - and if one part hits another  they will stick together. The first time I added maybe a cup of bench flour, maybe a 1/4 cup the second time, now I am not adding more than a tablespoon on my hands.  I do have a wooden peel and I rub that down with flour pretty thoroughly before I put down the pie.

[barryvabeach]

Danny,  hoping you would hear from Villa himself, but while you are waiting here is a video using 85% hydration dough - 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEbjPmTzjHY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEbjPmTzjHY</a>

     it doesn't look like he is using whole wheat, but you can see the shaping is not at all like working with lower hydration doughs.

[DannyG]

That didn't look like fun to me. And look at all the bench flour he had to use. I'm not sure I want to go down this path. Maybe Villa will chime in here.

[Villa Roma]

That didn't look like fun to me. And look at all the bench flour he had to use. I'm not sure I want to go down this path. Maybe Villa will chime in here.

That guy in the video looks to be using regular white flour or some blend of WW. If you folllow my latest recipe and use the Gold Medal WW flour you'll find that 82% hydration handles very eaisily and stretches better than some white flour recipes.

Preferment:
100 gm Gold Medal WW flour
82 gm water (82%)
1/64 tsp IDY

Main dough:
Preferment from above
400 gm Gold medal WW flour
328 gm water (82%)
7 gm sea salt (1.4%)
5 gm olive oil (1%)
1/16 tsp IDY

I made the preferment at 6 pm the night before. Just mix all ingredients in a small bowl, stir again in about 30 minutes, cover and let sit for 12 hours at room temp.

Put all ingredients (water first) including the preferment into the mixer bowl. I used a KitchenAid K5SS with a spiral hook. Mix for 1 minute to combine. Let rest for 30 minutes then mix on low for 3 minutes. Turn out onto counter and cover with a large stainless steel bowl. Perform a stretch and fold every 3 hours. Scale and ball dough at 10 hours, let rise about 2 hours and cook at 700 degrees for 3 minutes in the LBE. Use 180 gm of dough to make a 10" pizza. Recipe makes 5 pizzas.

    Villa Roma

[Essen1]

Danny,  hoping you would hear from Villa himself, but while you are waiting here is a video using 85% hydration dough -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEbjPmTzjHY     it doesn't look like he is using whole wheat, but you can see the shaping is not at all like working with lower hydration doughs.

Is that video some sort of a joke? That pizza dough doesn't look very appealing, both in texture and the way he handles it. Plus, way too much bench flour.

Sorry, Villa, didn't mean to get this thread off track.

[Essen1]

I just watched that video again...

I'm sorry, folks, but it's extremely hard to watch.

Is this the same guy who tried to promote his Sacramento WFOs (sacwoodpusher)?  If that's the case, I will happily pass.

[jcg]

Villa, have you ever attempted a WW deep dish pizza? Just wondering if your recipe can be modified to work with DD? I'm guessing the amount of oil would have to go up to the 15-20% range, and the water would drop by about the same percent??

jcg

[Gator_56]

That guy in the video looks to be using regular white flour or some blend of WW. If you folllow my latest recipe and use the Gold Medal WW flour you'll find that 82% hydration handles very eaisily and stretches better than some white flour recipes.

Preferment:
100 gm Gold Medal WW flour
82 gm water (82%)
1/64 tsp IDY

Main dough:
Preferment from above
400 gm Gold medal WW flour
328 gm water (82%)
7 gm sea salt (1.4%)
5 gm olive oil (1%)
1/16 tsp IDY

I made the preferment at 6 pm the night before. Just mix all ingredients in a small bowl, stir again in about 30 minutes, cover and let sit for 12 hours at room temp.

Put all ingredients (water first) including the preferment into the mixer bowl. I used a KitchenAid K5SS with a spiral hook. Mix for 1 minute to combine. Let rest for 30 minutes then mix on low for 3 minutes. Turn out onto counter and cover with a large stainless steel bowl. Perform a stretch and fold every 3 hours. Scale and ball dough at 10 hours, let rise about 2 hours and cook at 700 degrees for 3 minutes in the LBE. Use 180 gm of dough to make a 10" pizza. Recipe makes 5 pizzas.

    Villa Roma

Hi Villa,

As you can see by post count I am brand new around here(and too pizza making altogether)  We made our first, all from scratch, Pizza last night. We used a recipe out of some magazine of the Mrs. for the dough and it was.... ok!  We made the sauce from home canned tomatoes, and garden grown vegetables(with was fantastic).  I would love to try your recipe next time but to be honest I'm having a little trouble understanding some of the lingo.(again I'm a noob)

If you don't mind a few questions.

1) what does 87% or 90% hydration mean?

2)what does preferment mean?

3)IDY?

4)Scale and ball dough?

lol I guess I am used to reading out of layman's recipe book.

Thanks for you help and patience.   

[buceriasdon]

Gator, This is not a beginner's recipe. Keep it simple at first. Leave high hydration doughs and preferments for later. 1. 87% hydration is the ratio of water to flour. If you have 100 grams of flour, you would add 87 grams of water. For someone starting out this dough is sticky and hard to work. 2. A preferment can be called that or by other names, poolish, biga, mother dough, etc. I suggest you use the search feature here and do some research on your own and read this:     http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/preferments.pdf   3.Instant Dy Yeast  4.A digital scale is an accurate, quick way to measure ingredients for dough. No guessing. Even a $20 scale is a good investment. A dough ball is a finished ball of dough.
Don

Hi Villa,

As you can see by post count I am brand new around here(and too pizza making altogether)  We made our first, all from scratch, Pizza last night. We used a recipe out of some magazine of the Mrs. for the dough and it was.... ok!  We made the sauce from home canned tomatoes, and garden grown vegetables(with was fantastic).  I would love to try your recipe next time but to be honest I'm having a little trouble understanding some of the lingo.(again I'm a noob)

If you don't mind a few questions.

1) what does 87% or 90% hydration mean?

2)what does preferment mean?

3)IDY?

4)Scale and ball dough?

lol I guess I am used to reading out of layman's recipe book.

Thanks for you help and patience.   

[Villa Roma]

Here's a few whole grain pizzas made with the new slant lid on the 14" LBE.

   Villa Roma

[norma427]

Here's a whole grain pizza made with the new slant lid on the 14" LBE.

   Villa Roma

Villa Roma,

Wow!  What a beautiful whole grain pizza!     Glad to hear your new slant lid on your 14" LBE is working so well for you.

Norma

[Villa Roma]

Thanks Norma....The new setup worked really well. The peppers and onions were put on raw and they cooked beautifully.

   Villa Roma

[Tampa]

Wow, very nice!  Who cares which way the heat is flowing when you can deliver pies like this.
Dave